Re: Building computer

2013-10-04 Thread Paul Cartwright
On 10/03/2013 05:11 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: No apology necessary. I'm on many open lists (LKML) where hitting reply-to-list only goes to the sender. So I've been guilty myself a few times. so that is list specific... I wondered, because sometimes I hit reply it goes to the person, other

Re: Building computer

2013-10-04 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/4/2013 4:44 AM, Paul Cartwright wrote: On 10/03/2013 05:11 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: No apology necessary. I'm on many open lists (LKML) where hitting reply-to-list only goes to the sender. So I've been guilty myself a few times. so that is list specific... I wondered, because

[OT] List software, duplicate mail, or not. (was ... Re: Building computer)

2013-10-04 Thread Chris Bannister
On Fri, Oct 04, 2013 at 05:44:44AM -0400, Paul Cartwright wrote: On 10/03/2013 05:11 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: No apology necessary. I'm on many open lists (LKML) where hitting reply-to-list only goes to the sender. So I've been guilty myself a few times. so that is list specific... I

Screen resolution [was: Re: Building computer]

2013-10-03 Thread Anthony Campbell
On 02 Oct 2013, Stan Hoeppner wrote: [snip] No apology needed. You did in fact peg my age correctly; I will be 61 next month. And I too have known people who run less than the native resolution to make the fonts bigger. When I get to that point, though, I will simply increase the

Re: Building computer

2013-10-03 Thread Lisi Reisz
On Thursday 03 October 2013 05:52:06 Stan Hoeppner wrote: In my early 40s A mere strippling! And there was I pegging you as a sage*. ;-) Lisi * a teacher venerable for years, and of sound judgment (Wiktionary) P.S. Sorry Stan - I did not mean to send to you personally. I am trying to

Re: Building computer

2013-10-03 Thread Rhiamom
On Oct 3, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: If your broadband router has QOS features, many newer models do, you should be able to program it to give priority to game traffic. That would prevent the lag and stutter due to Skype or any other traffic. It's

Re: Building computer

2013-10-03 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/3/2013 7:49 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote: On Thursday 03 October 2013 05:52:06 Stan Hoeppner wrote: In my early 40s A mere strippling! And there was I pegging you as a sage*. ;-) Lisi * a teacher venerable for years, and of sound judgment (Wiktionary) I'm sorry, I'm not [The One]. I'm

Re: Building a computer for compiling and CPU emulation (Re: Building computer)

2013-10-02 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/1/2013 9:16 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/29/2013 6:01 AM, Joel Rees wrote: ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_mobile_microprocessors tells me that AMD A4-1250, AMD A6-1450, and E2-1800 all have AMD-V.

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/1/2013 5:13 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:33 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: Actually they were, up to the point you finally told us what screen resolution you use. That changes things quite a bit, or I should say changed one thing dramatically.

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Jeff Bauer
On 10/02/2013 04:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 10/1/2013 5:13 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: I have also looked at my memory usage. At this very moment, not running WoW, I have 5.22 gig being used. 4 gig would not be sufficient for me. You would be correct if the number you're looking at

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/2/2013 5:41 AM, Jeff Bauer wrote: On 10/02/2013 04:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 10/1/2013 5:13 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: I have also looked at my memory usage. At this very moment, not running WoW, I have 5.22 gig being used. 4 gig would not be sufficient for me. You would be

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Jonathan Dowland
On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 03:59:15AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote: This will really throw you for a loop. Open a shell window and execute ~$ sudo echo 3 /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches She'll probably get 'Permission denied', you need elevated permissions for the writing process, which in this case is

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Rhiamom
On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote This is the limiting factor. And this is why I implore people to buy the fastest dual core and forgo the quad, six, eight core models. And in fact, for non gamer daily use, I recommend the single core AMD Sempron,

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Celejar
On Wed, 2 Oct 2013 10:42:57 -0400 Rhiamom rhia...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote ... You would be correct if the number you're looking at reflected application memory usage. But it doesn't. On any of the modern operating systems

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/2/2013 8:23 AM, Jonathan Dowland wrote: On Wed, Oct 02, 2013 at 03:59:15AM -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote: This will really throw you for a loop. Open a shell window and execute ~$ sudo echo 3 /proc/sys/vm/drop_caches She'll probably get 'Permission denied', you need elevated

Re: Building computer

2013-10-02 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/2/2013 9:42 AM, Rhiamom wrote: On Oct 2, 2013, at 4:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote This is the limiting factor. And this is why I implore people to buy the fastest dual core and forgo the quad, six, eight core models. And in fact, for non gamer daily use, I

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 20:15 -0400, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 00:00:03 +0200 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: in Germany in 2012 was around 0.26 €/kWh. (0.26 EUR = 0.351604 USD) Btw. this is the statistical mean for Germany. In Western New York last bill

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Tue, 2013-10-01 at 10:04 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Mon, 2013-09-30 at 20:15 -0400, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 00:00:03 +0200 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: in Germany in 2012 was around 0.26 €/kWh. (0.26 EUR = 0.351604 USD) Btw. this is the

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Jerry Stuckle
On 10/1/2013 12:38 AM, Doug wrote: On 09/30/2013 08:15 PM, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 00:00:03 +0200 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: in Germany in 2012 was around 0.26 €/kWh. (0.26 EUR = 0.351604 USD) In Western New York last bill was circa 0.21$/KWh In West

Re: Building a computer for compiling and CPU emulation (Re: Building computer)

2013-10-01 Thread Joel Rees
On Tue, Oct 1, 2013 at 7:00 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/29/2013 6:01 AM, Joel Rees wrote: ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_mobile_microprocessors tells me that AMD A4-1250, AMD A6-1450, and E2-1800 all have AMD-V. The E2-1800 has a half-Meg L2 cache, but

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Charles Kroeger
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 06:40:01 +0200 Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: it's nothing like the prices shown unloaded, above. .21 cents is nothing like .22 cents, who knew. -- CK -- To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-user-requ...@lists.debian.org with a subject of unsubscribe. Trouble?

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Charles Kroeger
On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 04:40:01 +0200 Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: People convinced against their will are of the same opinion still. Stan, you know what Jesus said: cast your pearls before swine and they will turn on you and tear you to pieces. There are opinions and facts. Many

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 10/1/2013 12:29 AM, Rhiamom wrote: Sent from my iPad On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:33 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: ... It's quite funny to see someone of your knowledge level tell me I'm wrong by quoting the cardboard box as your evidence, while I'm demonstrating how the

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread David Guntner
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic Stan Hoeppner grabbed a keyboard and wrote: On 10/1/2013 12:29 AM, Rhiamom wrote: Sent from my iPad On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:33 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: ... It's quite funny to see someone of your

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Doug
On 10/01/2013 10:57 AM, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Tue, 01 Oct 2013 06:40:01 +0200 Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: it's nothing like the prices shown unloaded, above. .21 cents is nothing like .22 cents, who knew. The unloaded prices above refer to the 8.6 cents and the 9.75 cents

Re: Building computer

2013-10-01 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:33 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: Actually they were, up to the point you finally told us what screen resolution you use. That changes things quite a bit, or I should say changed one thing dramatically. I recommended a fast dual core CPU because more

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Marko Randjelovic
Never waste money on Windows OEM license. If you cannot afford retail license, better do not buy Windows at all. If you had retail license, you could reinstall Windows in Legacy mode and then install Linux on other partitions and you would be able to simply choose which OS to boot from

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/28/2013 9:16 PM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 28.09.2013 22:46, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : On 9/28/2013 8:14 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 28.09.2013 13:33, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : Hi Catherine, I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread but just wanted

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 30, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: No, no. Context is important here. The OP stated she needed more than 4GB of RAM. I stated that WOW on Wine shouldn't even require 2GB, but for argument's sake, if it did need 2GB, then all of her other stuff would

Re: Building a computer for compiling and CPU emulation (Re: Building computer)

2013-09-30 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/29/2013 6:01 AM, Joel Rees wrote: ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_AMD_mobile_microprocessors tells me that AMD A4-1250, AMD A6-1450, and E2-1800 all have AMD-V. The E2-1800 has a half-Meg L2 cache, but higher speed CPU (1.7GHz). The A4-1250 has 1 Meg L2 cache but lower

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Charles Kroeger
On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 00:00:03 +0200 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: in Germany in 2012 was around 0.26 €/kWh. (0.26 EUR = 0.351604 USD) In Western New York last bill was circa 0.21$/KWh In West Texas for September circa 0.14 $/KWh 1.00 EUR = 1.35229 USD Mid-market rates:

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/30/2013 4:32 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 30, 2013, at 5:00 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: No, no. Context is important here. The OP stated she needed more than 4GB of RAM. I stated that WOW on Wine shouldn't even require 2GB, but for argument's sake, if it

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Doug
On 09/30/2013 08:15 PM, Charles Kroeger wrote: On Sun, 29 Sep 2013 00:00:03 +0200 Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: in Germany in 2012 was around 0.26 €/kWh. (0.26 EUR = 0.351604 USD) In Western New York last bill was circa 0.21$/KWh In West Texas for September circa 0.14

Re: Building computer

2013-09-30 Thread Rhiamom
Sent from my iPad On Sep 30, 2013, at 10:33 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: Here is a prime example. Where did you arrive at 1.8GB of shared RAM. This is silly. Silly? I admit to being off by .1 gig; it is actually only 1.7 gig as confirmed by the specs for the HD4600 on

FW: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Mark Allums
Yes, though they are for different voltages, typically 3.3V and 2.5V or 1.8V, see the voltage monitoring in the BIOS or MB monitor for the values for a particular board. You'll find two inductors, probably toroids, and a group of tall aluminium electrolytic capacitors in the area. These

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Joel Rees
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 5:18 AM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 09/28/2013 03:23 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 9/27/2013 6:37 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone should

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sun, 2013-09-29 at 19:02 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: I7m confused. Did you mean can't produce a gain in current or power? Assumed there should be a linear voltage regulator able to provide the needed Ampere, how large should the heat sink be? The voltage isn't an issue. By a quick search I found

Building a computer for compiling and CPU emulation (Re: Building computer)

2013-09-29 Thread Joel Rees
On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 1:59 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/27/2013 6:03 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/26/2013 5:45 AM, Joel Rees

RE: kernel compilation (was ... Re: Building computer)

2013-09-29 Thread Beco
/msg01214.html From Stephen: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/09/msg01245.html From Stan: https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/09/msg01285.html Also, the thread Building a computer for compiling and CPU emulation (Re: Building computer) https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2013/09

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Doug
On 09/29/2013 06:02 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 5:18 AM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: /snip/ Do I understand correctly that there are two switching power supply chips at the input to the CPU to produce 3.3Volts? Obviously, a linera regulator cannot produce and gain in

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Doug
On 09/29/2013 06:47 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 2013-09-29 at 19:02 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: I7m confused. Did you mean can't produce a gain in current or power? Assumed there should be a linear voltage regulator able to provide the needed Ampere, how large should the heat sink be? The

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sun, 2013-09-29 at 11:36 -0400, Doug wrote: So a linear regulator is a lossy device law of conservation of energy --- energy exchange -- thermal conduction If you use it as voltage stabiliser + heater, it provides 100% efficiency too. It's simply a question of the point of view. ;) -- To

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sun, 2013-09-29 at 13:20 -0400, Doug wrote: On 09/29/2013 06:47 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Sun, 2013-09-29 at 19:02 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: I7m confused. Did you mean can't produce a gain in current or power? Assumed there should be a linear voltage regulator able to provide the

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread David Guntner
From http://www.debian.org/News/weekly/2011/05/#offtopic ... Have you ever wanted to discuss things completely unrelated to Debian or even computers with fellow users or developers? On debian-user the custom is to put [OT] in the subject and fire away. Unfortunately, this can be disruptive for

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-29 Thread Joel Rees
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 12:36 AM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 09/29/2013 06:02 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Sun, Sep 29, 2013 at 5:18 AM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: /snip/ Do I understand correctly that there are two switching power supply chips at the input to the CPU to

Re: Re: Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Balamurugan
On 09/28/2013 04:04 AM, David L. Craig wrote: On 13Sep27:2054+0530, Balamurugan wrote: On 09/27/2013 04:08 PM, David L. Craig wrote: Your fact is not. I installed Debian Sid on a G500 a few months ago and it dual-boots with Win8. The trick is to use the smaller alternative power button to

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Stan Hoeppner
Hi Catherine, I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread but just wanted to address a couple points here. On 9/26/2013 11:12 AM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 26, 2013, at 1:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: What desktop applications are you using that require 8GB,

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread berenger . morel
Le 28.09.2013 13:33, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : Hi Catherine, I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread but just wanted to address a couple points here. On 9/26/2013 11:12 AM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 26, 2013, at 1:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: What

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Jack Malmostoso
On Tue, 24 Sep 2013 22:10:01 +0200 Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: So, I am looking for recommendations on hardware, particularly motherboards, known to play nicely with Debian and boot consistently. I hope I'm not late to the party, but here's my new setup (bought in June) which

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 28, 2013, at 9:15 AM, Jack Malmostoso fabio.rosci...@gmail.com wrote: I hope I'm not late to the party, but here's my new setup (bought in June) which runs Debian Sid without problems: You may be too late for me, but not late for somebody else. This type of info is sadly hard to find

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Jack Malmostoso
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:10:01 +0200 Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: Could you be so kind as to tell us whether the board came with default settings that worked, or whether you needed to make changes in the BIOS? I had to deactivate the Secure Boot option in order to be able to boot

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 28, 2013, at 10:31 AM, Jack Malmostoso fabio.rosci...@gmail.com wrote: The onboard graphics depend on the CPU. In my case, it's HD4600, which is the fastest you can get with a socketed CPU. It's supported by the Intel driver in Wheezy for most things, however now in Sid it is used

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Jack Malmostoso
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 17:00:01 +0200 Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the additional info. It sounds a whole lot like what I am getting in the Zareason computer I ordered. I am waiting very impatiently! I was scrolling through the thread and I see you want to add a video

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Jack Malmostoso
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 17:00:01 +0200 Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for the additional info. It sounds a whole lot like what I am getting in the Zareason computer I ordered. I am waiting very impatiently! I was scrolling through the thread and I see you want to add a video

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/27/2013 6:03 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/26/2013 5:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-28 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/27/2013 6:37 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone should know. Subject: The marketing myth of multiple +12V rails [...] What I want to know is why Intel CPUs still need

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-28 Thread Doug
On 09/28/2013 03:23 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 9/27/2013 6:37 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone should know. Subject: The marketing myth of multiple +12V rails [...]

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/28/2013 8:14 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 28.09.2013 13:33, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : Hi Catherine, I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread but just wanted to address a couple points here. On 9/26/2013 11:12 AM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 26, 2013, at

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 28, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Jack Malmostoso fabio.rosci...@gmail.com wrote: I was scrolling through the thread and I see you want to add a video card, and I checked on the Zareason website what they offer. I hope you got a power supply with more than the 350W standard. I am not sure it has

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-28 Thread Joe
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:18:30 -0400 Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 09/28/2013 03:23 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 9/27/2013 6:37 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 16:55 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 28, 2013, at 11:56 AM, Jack Malmostoso fabio.rosci...@gmail.com wrote: I was scrolling through the thread and I see you want to add a video card, and I checked on the Zareason website what they offer. I hope you got a

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-28 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/28/2013 3:18 PM, Doug wrote: On 09/28/2013 03:23 PM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 9/27/2013 6:37 PM, Joel Rees wrote: On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone should know. Subject: The marketing myth

Re: Building computer

2013-09-28 Thread berenger . morel
Le 28.09.2013 22:46, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : On 9/28/2013 8:14 AM, berenger.mo...@neutralite.org wrote: Le 28.09.2013 13:33, Stan Hoeppner a écrit : Hi Catherine, I haven't caught up with the rest of the thread but just wanted to address a couple points here. On 9/26/2013 11:12 AM,

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-28 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 19:15 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote: However, another cost saving aspect to this I didn't mention previously is component commonality. If a vendor sizes it PSUs optimally, most if not every PSU in the line can use the same regulator FETs. For instance, a 25A regulator can

kernel compilation (was ... Re: Building computer)

2013-09-28 Thread Chris Bannister
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:57:43PM -0300, Beco wrote: On 26 September 2013 22:22, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: (I've compiled a kernel on a netbook; you'd better have a few hours to spare...) Questions for people who compile kernel and their machines: You are better off

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 23:57 -0300, Beco wrote: How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like to have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM / anything else relevant)? Building older and current kernels with configurations that are close to Debian, Ubuntu

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 09:30 +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 23:57 -0300, Beco wrote: How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like to have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM / anything else relevant)? Building older and current

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/26/2013 12:34 PM, Doug wrote: On 09/26/2013 01:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: /very large snip/ I just left this final section to illustrate the tome of the whole

Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread David L. Craig
On 13Sep26:2109-0400, Tom H wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Balamurugan emailstorb...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/25/2013 04:59 AM, Bob Proulx wrote: Catherine Gramze wrote: I intend to build a computer for the specific purpose of running Debian. I have had a bad experience with a

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Joel Rees
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/26/2013 5:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote: On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner
A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone should know. Subject: The marketing myth of multiple +12V rails Switching regulator MOSFETs provide the 3.3, 5/5VSB, and 12VDC output current of a PC PSU. Before the days of waffle iron CPUs and GPUs, PSUs had a single 12V regulator

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/26/2013 9:57 PM, Beco wrote: Questions for people who compile kernel and their machines: How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like to have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM / anything else relevant)? This depends entirely on what you

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Jonathan Dowland
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 09:30:57AM +0200, Ralf Mardorf wrote: Building older and current kernels with configurations that are close to Debian, Ubuntu or Arch Linux defaults takes around 90 minutes (in the past perhaps a little bit less and today perhaps around 120 minutes, I need to check

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Tom H
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 10:57 PM, Beco r...@beco.cc wrote: On 26 September 2013 22:22, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: (I've compiled a kernel on a netbook; you'd better have a few hours to spare...) Questions for people who compile kernel and their machines: How long a considered fast

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 07:36 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote: It simply makes wiring your PC more difficult, as you have to balance your 12V devices across an arbitrary boundary placed across the 12V output current of your power supply. And of course, now you should be asking yourself, given what

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Fri, 2013-09-27 at 09:02 -0400, Tom H wrote: On a 2.4 GHz i7-4700MQ laptop with 16 GB of RAM (sorry Stan!) The question is, if more cores and more RAM really make a difference for averaged desktop usage. AFAIK more cores and RAM should be important for video production, but for averaged

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Tom H
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 11:00 PM, Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 26, 2013, at 10:50 PM, Tom H tomh0...@gmail.com wrote: I'd call it obscure rather than magical. Any sufficiently obscure technique is indistinguishable from magic - (my apologies to Arthur C. Clark). :)

Re: Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Balamurugan
On 09/27/2013 04:08 PM, David L. Craig wrote: On 13Sep26:2109-0400, Tom H wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Balamurugan emailstorb...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/25/2013 04:59 AM, Bob Proulx wrote: Catherine Gramze wrote: I intend to build a computer for the specific purpose of running

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Doug
On 09/27/2013 09:21 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: /snip/ However, undersized voltage for capacitors for switching power supply is an often used fraud against consumers and switching power supplies pollute the mains. Exotic resistors sometimes make them a PITA when you want to repair one and you

Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Tom H
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 6:38 AM, David L. Craig dlc@gmail.com wrote: On 13Sep26:2109-0400, Tom H wrote: On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 10:30 PM, Balamurugan emailstorb...@gmail.com wrote: On 09/25/2013 04:59 AM, Bob Proulx wrote: Catherine Gramze wrote: I intend to build a computer for the

Re: Re: Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread David L. Craig
On 13Sep27:2054+0530, Balamurugan wrote: On 09/27/2013 04:08 PM, David L. Craig wrote: Your fact is not. I installed Debian Sid on a G500 a few months ago and it dual-boots with Win8. The trick is to use the smaller alternative power button to the right of the large power button, which

Re: Building computer

2013-09-27 Thread Stephen Powell
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 22:57:43 -0400 (EDT), Beco r...@beco.cc wrote: Questions for people who compile kernel and their machines: How long a considered fast kernel compilation would last? I'd like to have a clue. And in what kind of computer (processor / RAM / anything else relevant)?

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Joel Rees
On Sat, Sep 28, 2013 at 2:29 AM, Doug dmcgarr...@optonline.net wrote: On 09/27/2013 09:21 AM, Ralf Mardorf wrote: /snip/ However, undersized voltage for capacitors for switching power supply is an often used fraud against consumers and switching power supplies pollute the mains. Exotic

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Joel Rees
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 9:36 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: A point I forgot to make. This is something everyone should know. Subject: The marketing myth of multiple +12V rails [...] What I want to know is why Intel CPUs still need the +12V. Have you considered copying

Re: Building computer - power supplies

2013-09-27 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Sat, 2013-09-28 at 08:25 +0900, Joel Rees wrote: But the upshot is that capacitors are exposed to higher voltages and/or effective power than they can handle, and get burned, and it is a manufacturing problem, and sometimes an engineering problem. And sometimes vendors knowingly use

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 00:05 -0500, Stan Hoeppner wrote: What desktop applications are you using that require 8GB, let alone 16GB, of RAM? I'd think 4 would be plenty. If you wish to over buy DRAM, that's a personal choice. I agree, even for heavy audio production I never needed the 4 GiB of

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Joel Rees
(sort-of-thread-hijacking) On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: [...] And I'm at a loss here. The detailed list below suggests that you were sand bagging to an extent in your previous post. Haswell

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Stan Hoeppner
On 9/26/2013 5:45 AM, Joel Rees wrote: (sort-of-thread-hijacking) On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 2:05 PM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: [...] And I'm at a loss here. The detailed list below suggests that you were sand bagging to an

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Rob Owens
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 08:11:31PM -0700, Dan Hitt wrote: Hi Catherine, This is regarding the question of what computer hardware to buy that will work with debian, given that store-bought computers were a problem this latest time. First, what is the name of the computer you actually

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Doug
On 09/26/2013 01:05 AM, Stan Hoeppner wrote: On 9/25/2013 12:52 PM, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 25, 2013, at 12:52 AM, Stan Hoeppner s...@hardwarefreak.com wrote: /very large snip/ I just left this final section to illustrate the tome of the whole thing: The socket vs upgrade concern

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Catherine Gramze
I contacted MSI to ask if they made a motherboard I could use. Here is the exchange: Me: I want to purchase a motherboard for a Linux computer. I would prefer one that would accept the new Haswell processor. The BIOS must allow for Secure Boot to be disabled, and CSM mode to be enabled, e.g.

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 13:45 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote: MSI tech: MSI does not perform and provide any Linux support for mb, only Windows. I don't know any vendor, for any kind of hardware, that does support Linux, even not the Linux friendly vendors that cooperate with the Linux community

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 26, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: I don't know any vendor, for any kind of hardware, that does support Linux, even not the Linux friendly vendors that cooperate with the Linux community usually don't support Linux. That Linux isn't supported, doesn't

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Darko Gavrilovic d.gavrilo...@gmail.com wrote: What's the motherboard model number? A quick Google indicates you may not be able to disable UEFI but you can enable legacy compatibility mode for MSI m/b's. The specific model I am considering is the MSI H87-43G.

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread David Christensen
On 09/26/13 10:45, Catherine Gramze wrote: I contacted MSI to ask if they made a motherboard I could use. ... This looks to me like a stock refusal to even consider a technical question ... Ideas: 1. Pick a motherboard and start a fresh post with the make and model in the subject -- e.g.

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Ralf Mardorf
On Thu, 2013-09-26 at 14:02 -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote: On Sep 26, 2013, at 1:57 PM, Ralf Mardorf ralf.mard...@alice-dsl.net wrote: I don't know any vendor, for any kind of hardware, that does support Linux, even not the Linux friendly vendors that cooperate with the Linux

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Catherine Gramze
On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:12 PM, Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: On Sep 26, 2013, at 2:08 PM, Darko Gavrilovic d.gavrilo...@gmail.com wrote: What's the motherboard model number? A quick Google indicates you may not be able to disable UEFI but you can enable legacy compatibility

Re: Building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Rob Owens
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 01:45:20PM -0400, Catherine Gramze wrote: I contacted MSI to ask if they made a motherboard I could use. Here is the exchange: Me: I want to purchase a motherboard for a Linux computer. I would prefer one that would accept the new Haswell processor. The BIOS must

Re: building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Catherine Gramze
I have received a response from MSI again. I do like the swiftness of their email responses, even if the responses are a bit cryptic. Me: Please advise me as to whether this motherboard: http://us.msi.com/product/mb/H87-G43.html#/?div=Overview 1. allows Secure Boot to be disabled and 2.

Re: building computer

2013-09-26 Thread Charles Kroeger
On Thu, 26 Sep 2013 21:50:01 +0200 Catherine Gramze rhia...@gmail.com wrote: I have received a response from MSI again. I do like the swiftness of their email responses, even if the responses are a bit cryptic. Me: Please advise me as to whether this motherboard:

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