Two questions.
Question 1, to Branden and Martin:
Reading over your platforms, I notice that they are very similar. I
don't think this is a bad thing; I happen to agree quite strongly with
both of your assessments of productive roles the DPL can play in our
community. Unfortunately, this
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:58:12AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
We find (found) ourselves at an impasse, where no actual work can get
done. The work of maintaining non-free outside of Debian *needs* to be
done by those who want to keep non-free in Debian. But they aren't
going to do it while
* Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-03 10:29]:
Has all this talking resulted in even an iota of concrete
movement on the official FSF position? Have there been any real
promises made that there is indeed going to be a change, from hte
powers that be in the FSF? Is there
As a female hacker/geek/DD I find myself more and more concerned about
the gender ratio in the Debian Developer/User comunity. How can we say
make a Universal OS when it's do scarcely related to half the
population of the world... I think we all agree we want to see more
women involved in or
On Wed, 03 Mar 2004 10:29:39 -0600
Manoj Srivastava [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
* MJ Ray [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-03 08:33]:
It's now over four years since RMS asked -legal for comments on the
FDL. Do DPL candidates think agreement is likely in the next three
months? How much longer should
Question 1, to Branden and Martin:
/me gets hissy and sad and stuff for being discriminated from a
question, and goes to his mommy to cry a little *weep-weep*
Question 2, to Gergely:
Your platform clearly shows your creativity and sense of humor, two
traits I believe are important for
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:18:03PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
The rationale is so obvious to everybody supporting the resolution and
so incomprehensible to those opposing it that it is not worth the pain
to argue about it, IMHO.
You're not describing a rationale, you're describing an article
On Wed, 2004-03-03 at 17:31, Gergely Nagy wrote:
As a female hacker/geek/DD I find myself more and more concerned about
the gender ratio in the Debian Developer/User comunity. How can we say
make a Universal OS when it's do scarcely related to half the
population of the world... I think
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 12:11:46PM +, Helen Faulkner wrote:
I think that on average, women are likely to be not so confident that
their skills will allow them to survive in an environment like debian,
compared to their male counterparts. I don't know why this is true, but
I experience
* Pascal Hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-03 16:48]:
Which of the groups/people on [1] do you consider delegates? Why or
why not? Would you change this?
Before answering this mail, I talked to Pasc on IRC for a while. Pasc
was added as a listmaster during my term as DPL, and has done
As a female hacker/geek/DD I find myself more and more concerned about
the gender ratio in the Debian Developer/User comunity. How can we say
make a Universal OS when it's do scarcely related to half the
population of the world... I think we all agree we want to see more
women
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:16:20PM +, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
No, I am extremely disappointed with the role of the Technical
Committee. I actually talked to Peter Palfrader [EMAIL PROTECTED]
about this at FOSDEM two weeks ago. While I think that we should in
most cases come to a
Cher(e) Client(e),
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On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 10:35:18AM +, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
Please keep what I said about core teams in mind and re-read
Internal - Core Teams, Delegates, Communication, Transparency. Many
of the points I raise there equally apply to (big) packages and other
technical matters.
At the
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:18:03PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 12:09:23PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
However, if the point of this vote is to decide what it is that we
want to do, then I think we'd be better served with a rationale for
your proposal.
The rationale
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 02:16:13PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:18:03PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 12:09:23PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
However, if the point of this vote is to decide what it is that we
want to do, then I think we'd be
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 05:51:11PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
Group (b) does not want to do this work
because they want non-free to be in Debian, not external to it.
For reference, I don't want to do that work because I think it's a waste
of time and effort to have a separate archive
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 09:37:25AM +0100, Andreas Tille wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Branden Robinson wrote
[ Sorry if I do not answer right inside the thread but the Reply to
links in the webform do not work as expected and I did not subscribed
to the list. Please CC me, if you want to
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 10:34:28PM +1100, Ben Burton wrote:
But on balance I think even that was pretty mild. I very seldom see
overt hostility towards women in Debian. I think I have seen more
towards gays, and we appear to have more gay and bi male developers than
women of any
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 07:21:27PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
I would say it as:
For those who understand, no explanation is necessary.
For those who do not, none is worthwhile.
I think it's not impossible that some (more) of the opponents could be
made to understand why people might
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 04:48:01PM +1100, Pascal Hakim wrote:
Hi,
Which of the groups/people on [1] do you consider delegates? Why or why not?
Formally speaking, I guess only two are. The Release Manager, and the
Hardware Donations Manager.
Martin can probably tell us if he's made other
The position to remove non-free as integrated part of Debian is a
technology first, end user second position. While the goal for a
100% free distribution is a great goal, I draw the line when users are
negatively impacted for the sake of the goal. It boils down to -- Who
do you put first-- the
The problem is you are a flake.
$ dict flake
...
4. a person who behaves strangely; a flaky[2] person.
[Colloq.]
[PJC]
...
2: a person with an unusual or odd personality [syn:
{eccentric}, {eccentric person}, {oddball}, {geek}]
...
Your yourself say you
Helen Faulkner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Partly it's knowing that I'm going to be dealing
with a man (almost certainly), and he may assume I don't know what I'm
doing, and he may put me down or be condescending or unkind as a
result.
The first newbie question I
Pascal Hakim [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Hi,
Which of the groups/people on [1] do you consider delegates? Why or why not?
Would you change this?
Since I am not a candidate, I cannot answer the question as
asked. However, I can add a data point. When the draft constitution
was first
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 06:09:56PM -0500, Bob Hilliard wrote:
Helen Faulkner [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Partly it's knowing that I'm going to be dealing
with a man (almost certainly), and he may assume I don't know what I'm
doing, and he may put me down or be
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 12:11:46PM +, Helen Faulkner wrote:
I agree with Ben that the problems are more subtle than overt. I have
never noticed overt sexism in my dealings with debian, though maybe I
haven't been looking awfully hard either.
I think that on average, women are
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Ben Burton wrote:
Your yourself say you notice a lot of people exhibiting similar
behaviour, so it doesn't appear particularly strange, unusual or odd to me.
Having read a lot of Phillip K. Dick lately, that there are a lot of
flakes out there doesn't seem odd to me. :-)
I don't know you are how long you have been with Debian or what your
contributions are, but are you sure that this lack of confidence isn't
due to inexperience?
I've been using debian increasingly for about 4-5 years now, and have used it
almost exclusively for the last couple. I don't think
On Thu, Mar 04, 2004 at 10:04:09AM +1100, Ben Burton wrote:
Colloquialisms are frequently both unkind and inaccurately applied, and
regardless of your intentions, your use of flake comes across as no
exception. Saying you're a flake, but that's not meant unkindly is
like saying I'm not
Honestly out of all the flame wars we've had
can you think of any where being a yucky girl was an issue?
I suspect you've missed the point somewhat. AIUI she does not fear that
people will bully her because she's female. She simply fears that
people will bully her (as they bully others, male
I don't honestly give a rats ass about what sexuality a person is, but I get
seriously pissed off when the 'We're a minority, we're special' card gets
pulled.
Whilst I see what you're saying, I fail to see how my post could
possibly be read as pulling the minority card. The quote I gave was
* Bob Hilliard [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-03 17:53]:
However, as far as I recall, no DPL has ever publicly appointed
delegates to positions.
http://lists.debian.org/debian-devel-announce/2003/debian-devel-announce-200305/msg5.html
--
Martin Michlmayr
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
* Branden Robinson [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-03 14:03]:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 10:35:18AM +, Martin Michlmayr wrote:
Please keep what I said about core teams in mind and re-read
Internal - Core Teams, Delegates, Communication, Transparency.
Many of the points I raise there equally
Mike Beattie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I don't honestly give a rats ass about what sexuality a person is, but I get
seriously pissed off when the 'We're a minority, we're special' card gets
pulled. It's the whole PC thing going overboard.
Since nobody in my opinion has ever said that...what
A. What do you think is the greatest challenge facing Debian in the
coming year? What would you do as Project Leader to try and meet this
challenge?
B. What should the Project Leader's role be when Debian comes into
significant and important conflict with other free software
organizations? (As
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 07:01:35PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Since nobody in my opinion has ever said that...what are you
complaining about?
...
We're a minority, please treat us equally, from one side, and
We're the majority, so we get special rights, from the other.
Again, perhaps
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004, Ben Burton wrote:
I suspect you've missed the point somewhat. AIUI she does not fear that
people will bully her because she's female.
I think instead of guessing at what we think Helen is saying we should
just go by what she actually did say and let her respond to any
* Thomas Bushnell, BSG [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2004-03-03 19:20]:
A. What do you think is the greatest challenge facing Debian in the
coming year? What would you do as Project Leader to try and meet
this challenge?
I think I have covered this pretty thoroughly in the My goals
section of my
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 07:21:27PM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
I think it's not impossible that some (more) of the opponents could be
made to understand why people might disagree with them. But I can't
imagine any even theoretically possible scenarios where this would
change their opinion,
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 05:04:36PM -0500, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
I have never had a hostile experience with debian, but I still feel
really unconfident when I interact with the debian community, even
if it's only posting a bug report. [...]
Helen I hope you don't take this the wrong way
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 09:02:41PM -0600, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004 17:04:36 -0500 (EST), Jaldhar H Vyas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
I have never had a hostile experience with debian, but I still
feel really unconfident when I interact with the debian
community, even if
On Thu, 4 Mar 2004 13:57:18 +1000, Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au said:
On Wed, Mar 03, 2004 at 05:04:36PM -0500, Jaldhar H. Vyas wrote:
I have never had a hostile experience with debian, but I still
feel really unconfident when I interact with the debian
community, even if it's
On Wed, 3 Mar 2004, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Heh. Seems tome that you are merely displaying your
inexperience
Could be. Given there are half a billion women in the world it could take
me a while to get the requisite experience.
What Helen mentions is not a feeling that is an
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