On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 09:38:26AM +0100, Gerardo Ballabio wrote:
I would point out to the candidates that Gerardo is not a voting member of
the Debian project. I don't think we should allow our candidate discussions
to be hijacked by non-voters.
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utside the context of a geopolitical conflict. It is
unrealistic to stop evil people from using Debian (or to stop Debian users
from doing evil). But that doesn't mean people doing evil should somehow
get a free pass from us because they are Debian users.
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Steve Langasek
On Mon, Apr 05, 2021 at 03:03:48PM +0200, Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote:
> Le dimanche 04 avril 2021 à 16:37:15-0700, Steve Langasek a écrit :
> > On Sun, Apr 04, 2021 at 03:09:10PM +0200, Bernd Zeimetz wrote:
> > > On Tue, 2021-03-30 at 12:18 +0200, Ulrike Uhlig wrote:
> > &
Non-voting posters to debian-vote are almost exclusively outside agitators
and there's no reason subscribing to debian-vote should mean receiving their
bullshit in our mailboxes.
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onvince people of complicated and
accurate ones.
Turns out the marketplace of ideas is actually the Home Shopping Network.
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lly capable of being misunderstood. Otherwise I just would let
> go. But I second also the proposed version, preferable using then "as an
> individual action".
"in person" has a pretty unambiguous meaning in (American?) English
referring to physical presence, so is the
abel anyone who don't
> > agree with them as sexist and transphobic. This is how they did it in
> > McCarthy era.[0] Resist the urge to be performative and stick to principles.
> >
> > [0]: https://www.aclu.org/other/what-censorship
> > <h
lace of work who drives other people to quit, and people have a right
to demand a work environment free from harrassment.
And why are we having this conversation? You're not a Debian developer, you
told Debian you were leaving because you disagreed with our policies, and
you don'
ommunity as to who feels how about Stallman. Otherwise this is all a based
> on a few loud voices shouting at each other.
LOL what do you think a vote is
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the freedom to associate with who you chose to
and the freedom to *not associate with people you don't*. It is an
infringement of the freedom of association of all other Debian developers if
we are not able to exclude someone based on the views they express and the
actions they take.
Labor rights are
utionally, this is not permitted. The DPL does not have the
authority to issue non-technical statements on behalf of the project.
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Ubuntu
most people already have their minds made up.
>
> If Steve, as proposer of the GR is comfortable with shortening the
> discussion period to one week, then I will use the DPL powers as per
> section 4.2.4 of our constitution to enact that.
I am more than happy with this.
I see no reason for a pro
On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 10:16:44PM +0100, Nicolas Dandrimont wrote:
> On Wed, Mar 24, 2021 at 01:54:16PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote :
> > Under 4.1.5 of the Constitution, the developers by way of GR are the body
> > who has the power to issue nontechnical statements.
> >
&
.
End Text of GR
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atred towards the person who started the
> whole "Free Software" thing, and personally did most of the work in the
> early days.
Holding people accountable is not hatred, you floating point error.
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.
Cheers,
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s the
decision itself.
I did not trust them to do the right thing because they had already done the
wrong thing.
A GR under those circumstances looks entirely appropriate to me.
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consider that an unacceptable position for a Debian
listmaster to take.
> Thanks for your attention and please forgive me any usage of bad wording
> or typos.
I'm certainly happy to do this if that's what it is. But given the severity
of the implications of the possible misinterpretation,
the question of what our init system policy should be, with meta commentary
on the procedure used to decide that policy.
I personally find it more difficult to support this proposal because of this
mixing of concerns.
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On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 11:47:52AM +0100, Daniel wrote:
> On 10/03/2019 11:37, Steve McIntyre wrote:
> > On Sun, Mar 10, 2019 at 11:20:03AM +0100, Daniel wrote:
> >> On 10/03/2019 04:44, Steve Langasek wrote:
> >>> This is an obviously untrue signature.
> --
> Debian Developer
This is an obviously untrue signature.
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some localities :)
And I think the closest analogue to a Debian vote is a meatspace election
that allows early or by-mail voting. I think there's almost universally
some overlap between campaign periods and voting periods in those cases (but
ICBW).
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n some of the drinkers, might
> be the key here.
As DPL, what standard will you use to determine that some developers are
drinking to excess?
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t constitution document and the output of
> said sed command to make it explicit that no other changes are intended.
Seconded.
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Ubuntu Devel
than the risk of high turnover in the TC,
could you elaborate why you think this?
Thanks,
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will be raised via our formal dispute
resolution process? If so, how do you believe these disputes will be
resolved, and why will this be a net improvement to Debian over the current
process?
Thanks,
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rounds of feedback on the -vote mailing list.
[3]: https://lists.debian.org/debian-project/2014/05/threads.html#00054
Seconded.
Thanks,
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shorter cycles.
I don't think that the TC is a stress-full role.
snort
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want to create, that such
compulsion would benefit the project. Being compelled to stay within
certain boundaries, and working together toward a common goal instead of
treating the archive as a battleground, is not necessarily a bad thing.
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. Neither you
nor Olav have voting rights in Debian. Even if this were somehow an
acceptable way for you to go about persuading Debian's voters, which it's
not, you're not doing that - you're just addressing yourself abusively to
someone else who is not a voter.
Please stop.
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/inittab.
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the members of the Debian community who are unhappy with
the increasingly monolithic approach to system design that is being
advocated in some quarters.
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On Sun, Mar 30, 2014 at 07:55:54PM +0100, Neil McGovern wrote:
On Thu, Mar 27, 2014 at 01:03:31PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
Do you think it's appropriate for these organizers to use Debian's name in
seeking local sponsorship without consulting the DPL?
Sorry for not being clearer
think
DDs soliciting sponsorship in Debian's name is something that should only be
done with central approval. What are your thoughts on how this should be
handled?
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about how
Debian money is being spent, and how these expenses affect our overall cash
reserves?
Thanks,
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the text.
But I have no idea why this question is being addressed to the DPL
candidates.
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change here, I think this is probably the best way
forward. Without specific text to consider, this is likely to result in an
open-ended discussion that doesn't get us to a usable amendment in time.
Cheers,
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Debian Developer
/devel/constitution#item-5
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On Sun, Mar 02, 2014 at 07:15:09PM +, Sune Vuorela wrote:
Logind requires systemd.
This is false, and therefore the rest of the question is irrelevant.
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of the TC to make systemd the
default init system for jessie.
(Then I suppose if people don't actually want to reaffirm this, they can
propose amendments to the contrary; but AFAICS it's better to be explicit
here.)
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is the wrong choice.
*You*, OTOH, have to accept it because you're an anonymous troll whose words
carry absolutely zero weight with the Debian community.
You are this guy:
http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2004/03/19
And that guy doesn't get a say in Debian's decisions.
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to
the sysvinit package I could just take it upon myself to set upstart as the
default. But I thought that it might be better to have a slightly less
unilateral decision-making approach.
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and correct base
into Debian. But we certainly are at the point today where such jobs can be
implemented more widely in packages.
If you have a different standard for seeking wide deployment, I'm
interested to know what it is.
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is enshrined in the Debian constitution, the cost
of changing it is high; the burden of proof when arguing for a change is
therefore high as well.
Cheers,
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world
On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 05:22:43PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
Where can we find public, third-party review and analysis of the method you
propose (which seems to be a hybrid of other methods - so I'm not sure if it
can properly be called Schwartz Woodall or not?)?
Whoops, sorry - I see
evaluating how to improve Debian's system even if we're fixing
bugs that we think aren't practical problems in Debian - if they are
practical problems elsewhere. I just have not been convinced that the
chicken dilemma is the practical problem that IRV advocates argue it is.
--
Steve Langasek
On Sat, Apr 13, 2013 at 10:29:06AM +0200, Debian Project Secretary - Kurt
Roeckx wrote:
- - -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
8367b943-96ac-4530-afbd-529da5fc4fd5
[ 7 ] Choice 1: Gergely Nagy
[ 3 ] Choice 2: Moray Allan
[ Q ] Choice 3: Lucas Nussbaum
[
On Wed, Mar 20, 2013 at 02:07:40AM -0400, Michael Gilbert wrote:
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 7:46 PM, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Tue, Mar 19, 2013 at 11:39:29PM +0100, Jérémy Bobbio wrote:
3. One test I've been taught to use to reason about free software is the
Desert Island test [2] which
they
have no contact with the outside world. That the software may not be
*useful* to them on a desert island is a separate question, and applies to
many sorts of software, not just those used for connecting to particular
services over the Internet.
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of inertia in Debian and
that's good on this spectrum? ;-)
(Being slow to implement technical consensus is a bad thing; but inertia
that prevents changes from being foisted on the project before there *is*
consensus is a *good* thing.)
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and may be less
confusing, but is not strictly required.
Cheers,
--
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developerhttp://www.debian.org/
slanga
On Sun, May 20, 2012 at 02:17:49AM +0200, Kurt Roeckx wrote:
On Sat, May 19, 2012 at 04:57:56PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
Rejected amendments, i.e. those
that result in additional ballot options, do not reset the discussion
period.
I think they do reset the discussion period when
---
I find the juxtaposition of these ballot options absolutely hilarious.
Nicely done. :-)
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---
BTW, while I think presenting some people in the project with this set of
choices would be entertaining, a more neutral way to word the first ballot
option might be:
Ratify proposed diversity statement
;)
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think the crowdsourced review on debian-project has already been
more than sufficient and don't think there's any point in further
proofreading on -l10n-english.
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Seconded. I know you haven't called for seconds yet, but I don't see any
reason to wait when this has already reached broad consensus on
debian-project.
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of learning an idiosyncratic
build system when they could be getting on with the real work of fixing bugs
instead, yes.
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is sending such a mail conditional on you being elected DPL?
How would the content of this mail differ from such a mail if you sent it as
non-DPL, and why?
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On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 01:40:44AM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 05:26:36PM -0700, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Sat, Mar 27, 2010 at 06:47:13PM +0100, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
However, as one of my initial actions as DPL, I do intend to submit a
post to debian-devel
As a developer, how do you embody the spirit and culture that has made
Debian a great operating system?
If elected DPL, how will you inspire the same in others?
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the popcon result for
Ubuntu more or less reflects the number of Ubuntu users. It also means
that, according to your estimate of the number of Debian users, Ubuntu
is not as far ahead as at least I would have thought.
http://lxer.com/module/newswire/view/123481/index.html
--
Steve Langasek
opinion? If so, how do you distinguish this from other
DDs who are privately funded to work on Debian? If not, how do you
reconcile this with the ongoing community resistance to Dunc Tank even after
it was decoupled from Debian money?
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in the
first place.
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On Sun, May 10, 2009 at 01:12:27PM +0100, Matthew Johnson wrote:
On Sun May 10 04:13, Steve Langasek wrote:
Hmm, I wouldn't second this in its present form because I don't see any
reason to change the supermajority requirement for amending the constitution
- I don't think anyone has ever
project, that
a given position statement is in conflict with a FD.
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facilitating it.
I'm saying it happens, and I'd rather not have a vote go the wrong way
because the only names the voters recognized were on the wrong side of the
issue. :P
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voters don't
follow debian-vote and won't follow the pro/con discussions in detail, but
the debian-devel-announce mail links to the vote.d.o webpage that lists all
the seconds right next to the amendment text.
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Seconded.
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On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 04:49:54PM -0700, Lucas Nussbaum wrote:
Since nobody sponsored it yet,
Actually, someone did, but:
I'm amending it to fix:
s/arised/arisen/
s/those years/the years/
Under A.1.6, you can fix spelling and grammar without having to re-solicit
seconds.
--
Steve
to handle this.
So I am seconding none of these proposals.
Therefore the Debian project reaffirms its attachement to the constitution
and the current General Resolutions process.
s/attachement/attachment/
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need an entirely
new one?
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?
Why are you asking the DPL candidates what they think of this proposal,
instead of proposing it to the developers?
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get away with[0]) and then all carry on.
I think this needs to be a two-part question to the lawyer: what does
copyright law require, and what does the GPLv3 require. I believe they are
not the same.
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of these documents, and more often than
not they're going to assume that the rest of the project agrees with them.
So I don't see any way that permitting such position statements is *worse*
than having Further Discussion win.
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issues while not having to use single plural
idiosynchracies)
a Debian Developers? :)
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women nominate themselves?
Clearly the Project Secretary's mail was a clever troll intended to trick
our female developers into standing for DPL.
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?
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. The constitution specifies that when there is no
Secretary, the chair of the Technical Committee serves as Acting Secretary.
To refuse the post of Acting Secretary, Bdale would have to step down as TC
chair.
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Debian
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 12:42:12AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 08:37:06AM +0100, Robert Millan wrote:
I know you didn't explicitly request being appointed Secretary; it sort of
happened by accident, but you had the opportunity to refuse all the time,
so I must take
it as a separate
vote.
I challenge you to do something useful for the project instead of dragging
us down with voting nonsense.
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agree with this summary of the available choices.
If put to a vote, my vote would certainly be B, A, FD, D, C.
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On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 03:55:43PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
- Steve Langasek wrote:
Yes, because it's not a supersession of the Foundation Document; it's
either
a position statement or an override of a decision by a delegate. Position
statements are not binding; overrides
of
either the proposer or the Secretary when deciding that a resolution
supersedes a Foundation Document; that supersession is an explicit act.
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On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 01:49:20PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell BSG wrote:
On Wed, 2008-12-31 at 12:01 -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
While I understand the desire to add additional checks and balances in
response to figures exercising power in ways we don't approve of, I think
the fundamental
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 03:55:40PM +0900, Paul Wise wrote:
On Wed, Dec 24, 2008 at 3:15 PM, Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote:
Having two sets of images doesn't make sense to me; the CD team have already
posted publically this cycle about the infrastructure challenges involved
will recognize the importance of not imposing
his personal (and contentious) beliefs on the voting process. If they don't
recognize this, then I guess it's inevitable that we amend the constitution
to limit the Secretary's power.
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to accomodate, doubling
the image count doesn't sound feasible, IMHO.
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On Mon, Dec 22, 2008 at 08:12:54AM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
Condorcet is orthogonal to the issue.
It isn't. The US two-party system and resulting political maneuvering are
an exploit of FPTP.
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/debian-vote/2002/12/msg00023.html
And it looks like the path to the current algorithm was set with this
message on Dec 9:
http://lists.debian.org/debian-vote/2002/12/msg00039.html
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.
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On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 03:38:55PM -0600, Ean Schuessler wrote:
- Steve Langasek vor...@debian.org wrote:
Yes, I agree that supermajority requirements are a bad idea in
general.
To understand the need for a supermajority all you have to do is look at
American politics. A supermajority
On Sun, Dec 21, 2008 at 02:22:40PM +, Matthew Johnson wrote:
On Sat Dec 20 17:51, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:48:43PM +0200, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
In my eyes, this argument applies to any situation where a supermajority
might be formally required
/vote_0003 (and
the extensive list discussion from the corresponding period) which
established the concept of Foundation Documents and the terms under which
they can be amended.
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On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 12:48:43PM +0200, Antti-Juhani Kaijanaho wrote:
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 04:36:59PM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
if a majority of voters vote that we should put
Nvidia drivers in main, then your fundamental problem is that you have a
majority of people (or at least
an expression of the majority opinion by imposing a supermajority
requirement that doesn't follow from the letter of the constitution does not
accomplish that. The default is still that each developer is going to do
what they personally believe is right.
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Steve Langasek Give me
at all as part of the ballot
drafting, and should be interpreting the constitution parsimoniously. But
given that the constitution already calls for the secretary to engage in
consensus-driven decision-making, I'm not sure how the latter can be made
any more clear.
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*from* the constitution.
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, and in the latter is being honest with ourselves and our users.
I don't see why we should be encouraged to lie to ourselves.
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Ubuntu Developer
happened in the archive, or to the declared intentions of the
release team.
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history?
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