On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 12:23:27AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Given the continued lack of a reply, I shall assume that
there is indeed no need for the GR.
Actually, it appears you have reached your conclusion a priori the premise
you cited, so let's not play games.
--
G. Branden Robinson
On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 12:23:27AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Given the continued lack of a reply, I shall assume that
there is indeed no need for the GR.
Actually, it appears you have reached your conclusion a priori the premise
you cited, so let's not play games.
--
G. Branden Robinson
On Wed, Jul 19, 2000 at 02:43:11AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 12:23:27AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Given the continued lack of a reply, I shall assume that
there is indeed no need for the GR.
Actually, it appears you have reached your conclusion a priori the
On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 01:36:51PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:39:11PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
sources.list. Nobody has yet shown me why merely being on
debian.org means that it has to be associated with the Debian
distribution.
Given this very point, why
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:32:57PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
My proposal does not throw out the social contract. It strengthens
it.
no, it does not strengthen it. it throws out the bits of it that you
personally don't like.
I fail to see how you can call supporting and spreading non-free
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:32:57PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
My proposal does not throw out the social contract. It strengthens
it.
no, it does not strengthen it. it throws out the bits of it that you
personally don't like.
I fail to see how you can call supporting and spreading non-free
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 09:36:46AM +, Dale Scheetz wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
"We will be guided by the needs of our users." Our users
have indicated that non-free is currently required.
And that means us
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 09:36:46AM +, Dale Scheetz wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
We will be guided by the needs of our users. Our users
have indicated that non-free is currently required.
And that means us developing
On 15-Jun-00, 22:39 (CDT), John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Will you please stop equating "I want to provide the best experience
for our users" with "I support non-free software at the same level
of enthusiasm I support free software".
On 15-Jun-00, 22:39 (CDT), John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Will you please stop equating I want to provide the best experience
for our users with I support non-free software at the same level
of enthusiasm I support free software. They are
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:34:20PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:31:50PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Obviously you have no problem with throwing out the social contract on a
whim.
Please explain to where the proposed GR mandates this.
I see an
On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:43:06PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
And, lastly, Debian providing all this makes non-free software easier to
maintain and easier to obtain, and, IMO, making life easier is a moral
good too.
apt can pull from anywhere.
And dinstall? The BTS? The mirror network? The
On 16 Jun 2000, John Goerzen wrote:
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:33:17PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
My proposal does not throw out the social contract. It strengthens
it. I fail to see how you can call supporting and spreading non-free
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 09:23:23PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
If not, then I ask how much sense it makes for Debian Developers 20
years from now to be bound by a document which says we make available
an FTP archive of non-free software. What do we do when FTP goes the
way of UUCP?
in 50
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:33:17PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
4. Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software
We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free-software
community. We will place their interests first in our
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:33:17PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
4. Our Priorities are Our Users and Free Software
We will be guided by the needs of our users and the free-software
On Sat, Jun 17, 2000 at 09:36:46AM +, Dale Scheetz wrote:
On Sat, 17 Jun 2000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
We will be guided by the needs of our users. Our users
have indicated that non-free is currently required.
And that means us developing it, not us passing it off.
Which part of that
On Fri, Jun 16, 2000 at 03:43:06PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
And, lastly, Debian providing all this makes non-free software easier to
maintain and easier to obtain, and, IMO, making life easier is a moral
good too.
apt can pull from anywhere.
And dinstall? The BTS? The mirror network?
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:33:17PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
My proposal does not throw out the social contract. It strengthens
it. I fail to see how you can call supporting and spreading non-free
software good, valuable principles. There is no logical or ethical
basis for such a
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: debian-project@lists.debian.org; debian-vote@lists.debian.org
Sent: Thursday, June 15, 2000 10:39 PM
Subject: Re: An ammendment (Re: Formal CFV: General Resolution to Abolish
Non-Free)
snip
Why? Nobody has yet shown me what is so hard about
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:33:17PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
My proposal does not throw out the social contract. It strengthens
it. I fail to see how you can call supporting and spreading non-free
software good, valuable principles. There is
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:39:11PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
sources.list. Nobody has yet shown me why merely being on
debian.org means that it has to be associated with the Debian
distribution.
Given this very point, why the GR?
Hamish
--
Hamish Moffatt VK3SB [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:34:20PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:31:50PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Obviously you have no problem with throwing out the social contract on a
whim.
Please explain to where the proposed GR mandates this.
I see an amendement of
On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:31:50PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Obviously you have no problem with throwing out the social contract on a
whim.
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 01:34:20PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
Please explain to where the proposed GR mandates this.
Please explain what part
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 13-Jun-00, 01:30 (CDT), John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 03:30:04PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
What do we need this in a GR for?
To reaffirm the principles you
On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 06:31:50PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Obviously you have no problem with throwing out the social contract on a
whim.
Please explain to where the proposed GR mandates this.
I see an amendement of its language, but no blanket repeal of the document.
--
G. Branden
On Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 04:05:30PM -0600, Norman Petry wrote:
On Sat, June 10, 2000 10:00 PM, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:53:40PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
Now follows a dissertation on the voting system:
[...]
Thanks for the primer; this was quite possibly
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000 11:41:27 -0500, Chris Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED]
said:
Chris On Jun 13, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
AFAIK the helix people are free to upload their debs if they want
to maintain them according to our policies..
Chris FWIW they seem to have done a good job of packaging and
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
To reaffirm the principles you are working to erode.
Your principles are the support and spreading of non-free software?
Not at all. I refer to the principles stated in the Debian
Social Contract:
5. Programs That Don't Meet Our
On Thu, Jun 15, 2000 at 10:14:54PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
My post was made solely to point out the illogic of Hamish Moffatt's
equivalence between throwing out the Social Contract on a whim, which was
what he accused John Goerzen of attempting to do, and the text of John's
General
Steve Greenland [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On 13-Jun-00, 01:30 (CDT), John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 03:30:04PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
What do we need this in a GR for?
To reaffirm the principles you
Le Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 11:41:27AM -0500, Chris Lawrence écrivait:
FWIW they seem to have done a good job of packaging and maintaining
the Gnome stuff. It'd be nice to see someone from Helix officially
maintaining our Gnome packages (or have them liaise with the current
Debian maintainer(s)
Le Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 11:41:27AM -0500, Chris Lawrence écrivait:
FWIW they seem to have done a good job of packaging and maintaining
the Gnome stuff. It'd be nice to see someone from Helix officially
maintaining our Gnome packages (or have them liaise with the current
Debian maintainer(s)
On Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 09:10:47PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
The intention of this ammendment is to provide a means for developers to
offer their support of the existing social contract while acknowledging
that the current
On Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 12:53:44PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote:
If you really want to show that non-free and contrib are not part of the
distribution you should move them out from under dists.
ftp...debian.org/
debian/ # has infrastructure support
dists/...
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 03:30:04PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
What do we need this in a GR for?
To reaffirm the principles you are working to erode.
Your principles are the support and spreading of non-free software?
Just what is wrong with eroding
On Tue, Jun 13, 2000 at 01:30:30AM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 03:30:04PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
What do we need this in a GR for?
To reaffirm the principles you are working to erode.
Your principles are the
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Mon, Jun 12, 2000 at 12:53:44PM -0600, Bruce Sass wrote:
If you really want to show that non-free and contrib are not part of the
distribution you should move them out from under dists.
ftp...debian.org/
debian/ # has
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
4) noting that the Debian project already distributes various other
collections of unofficial packages, the project endorses a move to
specifically collect the various other add-on components such as
On Tue, 13 Jun 2000, Paul J Thompson wrote:
archives. For instance, I mean, the Helix Gnome collection of debs is
far better then our group and I think it would be nice to show our
support to them. So, what about providing a place within the debian
distribution unofficial area to include
On Jun 13, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
AFAIK the helix people are free to upload their debs if they want to
maintain them according to our policies..
FWIW they seem to have done a good job of packaging and maintaining
the Gnome stuff. It'd be nice to see someone from Helix officially
maintaining
FWIW they seem to have done a good job of packaging and maintaining
the Gnome stuff. It'd be nice to see someone from Helix officially
maintaining our Gnome packages (or have them liaise with the current
Debian maintainer(s) of those packages).
I agree that I'm not really sure what value
On 13-Jun-00, 01:30 (CDT), John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 03:30:04PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
What do we need this in a GR for?
To reaffirm the principles you are working to erode.
Your principles are the
I second this amendment.
Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
The text of the resolution should be
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
The intention of this ammendment is to provide a means for developers to
offer their support of the existing social contract while acknowledging
that the current situation does indeed give somewhat too much credibility.
I'm afraid
On Sat, June 10, 2000 10:00 PM, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:53:40PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
Now follows a dissertation on the voting system:
[...]
Thanks for the primer; this was quite possibly the most useful message in
this entire thread.
Except that Chris
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:44:24PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an
On Jun 11, Anthony Towns wrote:
As I understand it, at this point two votes need to take place: one to
determine what form the resolution should take so that developers may
choose between John's original resolution, or the one I posted (or any
others that are proposed and seconded), and a
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 03:30:04PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
1) the Debian project continues to acknowledge the utility of providing
non-free software for it users.
What do we need a GR for this? What makes you think that there is
On Sat, June 10, 2000 10:00 PM, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:53:40PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
Now follows a dissertation on the voting system:
[...]
Thanks for the primer; this was quite possibly the most useful message in
this entire thread.
Except that Chris
On Jun 11, Anthony Towns wrote:
As I understand it, at this point two votes need to take place: one to
determine what form the resolution should take so that developers may
choose between John's original resolution, or the one I posted (or any
others that are proposed and seconded), and a
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:44:24PM -0400, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
The text of the resolution should be replaced with a call for the
developers to resolve
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
Your amendment looks like a completely different proposal to me.
The text of the
[Let's retry this with the promised PGP sig...]
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
Your amendment looks like a
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
This is not really an amendment.
1) the Debian project continues to acknowledge the utility of providing
non-free software for it users.
What do we need a GR for this?
1) the Debian project continues to acknowledge the utility of providing
non-free software for it users.
What do we need a GR for this? What makes you think that there is
utility in us actually providing it?
What makes *you* think there isn't? Nice holier than you attitude.
--
Anthony Towns wrote:
--ZRyEpB+iJ+qUx0kp
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to
Dirk Eddelbuettel [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
1) the Debian project continues to acknowledge the utility of providing
non-free software for it users.
What do we need a GR for this? What makes you think that there is
utility in us actually providing it?
What makes *you* think
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
The text of the resolution should be replaced with a call for the
developers to resolve that:
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
Seconded.
The text of the resolution should be replaced with a call for the
developers to resolve that:
I also second this amendment, as it is now clear that it is indeed an
amendment..
This message is gpg signed..
Zephaniah E. Hull..
On Sun, Jun 11, 2000 at 02:05:15AM +0200, Carsten Leonhardt wrote:
Anthony Towns aj@azure.humbug.org.au writes:
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 05:22:43PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Wed, Jun 07, 2000 at 11:03:33PM -0500, John Goerzen wrote:
DEBIAN GENERAL RESOLUTION
Proposed by: John Goerzen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I wish to propose an ammendment to the proposed resolution as follows.
The text of the
On Jun 10, Branden Robinson wrote:
It's easier to bog down John's proposal in parliamentary bureaucracy if you
couch your diametrically opposed proposal as an amendement.
Translation: it is easier to defeat John's proposal if a clearly
defined alternative is proposed to be voted upon at the
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 10:00:43PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
On Jun 10, Branden Robinson wrote:
It's easier to bog down John's proposal in parliamentary bureaucracy if you
couch your diametrically opposed proposal as an amendement.
Translation: it is easier to defeat John's proposal if
On Sat, Jun 10, 2000 at 09:53:40PM -0500, Chris Lawrence wrote:
Now follows a dissertation on the voting system:
[...]
Thanks for the primer; this was quite possibly the most useful message in
this entire thread.
--
G. Branden Robinson|The errors of great men are venerable
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