Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-10 Thread Branden Robinson
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 05:24:16PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Branden Robinson

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-10 Thread Branden Robinson
On Fri, Jan 09, 2004 at 11:52:23AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 05:27:30PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: It is the process of voting which will enable us to measure what we want to do. How we *act* upon that measurement is the cutting. Yes, and making a resolution

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-10 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: What's your definition of a problem? On Thu, Jan

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-10 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: What's your definition of a problem? On Thu, Jan

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-10 Thread Branden Robinson
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 05:24:16PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Branden Robinson

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-10 Thread Branden Robinson
On Fri, Jan 09, 2004 at 11:52:23AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 05:27:30PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: It is the process of voting which will enable us to measure what we want to do. How we *act* upon that measurement is the cutting. Yes, and making a resolution

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Branden Robinson
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? What's your definition of a problem? -- G. Branden Robinson| You are not angry with people when Debian

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: What's your definition of a problem? In this context, I

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Branden Robinson
On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 12:37:07PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: So far, people seem to be taking the position that it will better to first vote on whether or not we're going to move in this direction (a super majority decision) and then, once that decision is made to focus on the details.

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 05:27:30PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 12:37:07PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: So far, people seem to be taking the position that it will better to first vote on whether or not we're going to move in this direction (a super majority

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Branden Robinson
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? What's your definition of a problem? -- G. Branden Robinson| You are not angry with people when Debian

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Branden Robinson
On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 12:37:07PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: So far, people seem to be taking the position that it will better to first vote on whether or not we're going to move in this direction (a super majority decision) and then, once that decision is made to focus on the details.

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 01:04:33PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote: But what problem(s) are you solving, and how is this a better solution than any of the other proposals? On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:57:14PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: What's your definition of a problem? In this context, I

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-08 Thread Anthony Towns
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 05:27:30PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote: On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 12:37:07PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote: So far, people seem to be taking the position that it will better to first vote on whether or not we're going to move in this direction (a super majority

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-05 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? It doesn't take a wild imagination to guess that if any proposal to remove non-free passes it will either involve or lead to some sort of

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-05 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 05:05:33PM -0800, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: So far, people seem to be taking the position that it will better to first vote on whether or not we're going to move in this direction (a super majority decision) and then, once that decision is made to focus on the details.

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-05 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 05:05:33PM -0800, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? It doesn't take a wild imagination to guess that if any proposal to

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-05 Thread Benj. Mako Hill
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? It doesn't take a wild imagination to guess that if any proposal to remove non-free passes it will either involve or lead to some sort of

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-05 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 05:05:33PM -0800, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: So far, people seem to be taking the position that it will better to first vote on whether or not we're going to move in this direction (a super majority decision) and then, once that decision is made to focus on the details.

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-05 Thread Anthony Towns
On Mon, Jan 05, 2004 at 05:05:33PM -0800, Benj. Mako Hill wrote: On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? It doesn't take a wild imagination to guess that if any proposal to

Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Brian McGroarty
Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? I would propose the next release include a package that periodically checks what non-free packages are installed. The results would be sent to a Debian server for statistics gathering. The user would be

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: I would propose the next release include a package that periodically checks what non-free packages are installed. The results would be sent to a Debian server for statistics gathering. The user would be prompted to enable the

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? Isn't months slow enough already? I would propose the next release include a package that periodically checks what non-free packages are

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Michael Banck
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? Nobody did this until now. Why should somebody do it now? Those who'd like to see non-free go probably don't want to 'get their hands

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Joey Hess
Andrew Suffield wrote: One thing that we do learn from popularity-contest is that popularity-contest doesn't work. The sample size is too small. That's why we've made popularity-contest be installed by default for sarge. Of course the user still has to choose whether or not to turn it on. --

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Raul Miller
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: I would propose the next release include a package that periodically checks what non-free packages are installed. The results would be sent to a Debian server for statistics gathering. The user would be prompted to enable the

Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Brian McGroarty
Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? I would propose the next release include a package that periodically checks what non-free packages are installed. The results would be sent to a Debian server for statistics gathering. The user would be

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Andrew Suffield
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? Isn't months slow enough already? I would propose the next release include a package that periodically checks what non-free packages are

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Michael Banck
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 11:57:20AM -0600, Brian McGroarty wrote: Instead of severing non-free all at once, why not try and phase it out more progressively? Nobody did this until now. Why should somebody do it now? Those who'd like to see non-free go probably don't want to 'get their hands

Re: Revoking non-free less violently

2004-01-04 Thread Joey Hess
Andrew Suffield wrote: One thing that we do learn from popularity-contest is that popularity-contest doesn't work. The sample size is too small. That's why we've made popularity-contest be installed by default for sarge. Of course the user still has to choose whether or not to turn it on. --