a different criteria for measuring accomplishment. Spend a day
configuring a Red Hat system, and you'll know that technically we
have achieved a lot. Don't undervalue that.
Hamish
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the constituitional changes first;
then we will know exactly what type of majority is required
for your GR.
On the other hand, if Anthony's amendment passes, the
situation is quite clear. However, we should vote on
the constituitional changes anyway.
Hamish
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, require a 3:1
majority to be modified; the others require no special majority.
In addition, the list of foundation documents requires a 3:1
majority to modify.
Is this a fair summary?
thanks,
Hamish
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contract. At that point, Debian would be free to maintain the
non-free archive without social contract bounds on how much or how long.
Why not scrap the whole document now, so that we don't
have to go to the trouble of changing in the future?
Sounds very efficient.
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ed, but he is certainly not required to seek out
jobs of an absent secretary to do. It doesn't even say he must act
as secretary under any particular circumstance, only that he may.
So there's not much point in making baseless demands of Raul, really.
Hamish
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On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 08:42:24AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
On Thu, Oct 12, 2000 at 06:15:56PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Three out of four states lead to keeping non-free. Pick one path.
There are more than four states. You've ignored:
(*) further discussion
(*) failure to reach
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relevant,
asking for reconsideration would be best. Be friendly and
point out where you think the secretary has gone wrong.
No grandstanding, though, thanks. This is a volunteer
organisation, after all.
Hamish
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some perspective.
If you want Darren to resign as secretary, then ask him to do
so directly rather than just being rude about it. We all know
that if you're rude enough to people in Debian they quit
eventually, but there are better ways.
Not that I think Darren should resign.
Hamish
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On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 02:47:48AM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Tue, Nov 14, 2000 at 12:23:36AM -0700, John Galt wrote:
The Rand thing Is getting old, however...
I entirely agree. How about using your real name?
How about you doing the same?
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.
We have nominations for:
Branden Robinson
Ben Collins
Anand Kumria
Don't we also have a nomination from Bdale Garbee?
Hamish
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1: Branden Robinson
[ ] Choice 2: Anand Kumria
[ ] Choice 3: Ben Collins
[ ] Choice 4: Bdale Garbee
[ ] Choice 5: None Of The Above
- -=-=-=-=-=- Don't Delete Anything Between These Lines =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
There IS no "Further Discussion" option...
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On Thu, Mar 08, 2001 at 10:12:08PM -0700, Jason Gunthorpe wrote:
On Fri, 9 Mar 2001, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
This is still not accepting my key. I'm using GPG with an RSA/IDEA key
(generated with PGP originally). I confirmed that the signature is OK.
The updated key was accepted
id, but at the first opportunity, we had
two (or was it three?) votes to decide on a replacement.
Hamish
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ame
Me, I voted with the Majority." :-)
hamish
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On Tue, Mar 13, 2001 at 10:45:47AM -0500, Ben Collins wrote:
People seem to be very afraid of a dictoral leader, and I guess I can
understand that :)
Well, we don't really seem to need one. We rarely need the
technical committee, either.
Hamish
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to lead.
So what should a Debian Project Leader actually do?
(Serious, unloaded question.)
How should they lead us?
Hamish
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. That would be your employer too,
right? And doesn't a similar potential conflict of interest exist with
Wichert? (IIRC he works for VA?)
Hamish
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to the manual) is pgp-md5. Our package overrides the default (without
updating the manual).
Gr.
Hamish
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to Branden and Bdale.. the results were fairly close
it seems.
Hamish
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(165-31)
"Preferred" has two r's.
No. "Preferred" has three r's.
And this sentence mentioning "preferred" has four, no, five r's.
And which grammatical rule suggests the apostrophes?
Hamish
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On Thu, Mar 29, 2001 at 10:36:00PM -0800, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And which grammatical rule suggests the apostrophes?
It's the standard rule for pluralizing single lower-case letters.
Chicago Manual of Style, 13th ed; 6.9--10:
Hmm, OK
On Fri, Mar 30, 2001 at 04:36:44PM +1000, Glenn McGrath wrote:
Cmon people, its getting a bit OT to argue about the grammer of the
announcment isnt it (as long as the numbers are correct).
Actually, I was genuinely curious.
Hamish
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-IRCer's point of view) is to
get a more reasonable bunch of ops, eg drop Branden. And that
seems to be up to Wichert. We don't (AFAIK) give him access to
the subscription list for debian-devel or admin access on our
servers, else who knows what could happen.
Hamish
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is to fix those
bugs, and/or pass them upstream.
Well, Michael could just send them to the BTS instead. Then his operation
would be more legitimate apparently.
I find the emails a bit irritating but not enough to overreact
badly on debian-vote!
Hamish
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On Thu, Oct 04, 2001 at 10:47:02AM -0500, Adam Heath wrote:
Seconded.
I propose a cooling off period for proposals on debian-vote.
Submit your proposal, and it will be released one week later
unless you have retracted it. That should stop this nonsense.
Hamish
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:
Another system I saw (many years ago, on fidonet) had the voters submit
their own keyword when voting. When the results were published, the vote
was published alongside the keyword (but no names).
Hamish
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it better to solve the problem of long wait times than
to give people priviledges early? Priviledges that potentially they may
not otherwise get (ie if they are rejected).
Hamish
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been
around longer than most of our developers. Some who have contributed
more than some of our developers, too.
Hamish
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, and why
doesn't the search engine find any references to it at all?
Hamish
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never cause the candidate to lose, nor should voting a
candidate lower ever cause the candidate to win.
This is really bad.
I think it is nonsensical that the order in which the votes are received
is relevant.
Hamish
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On Tue, Jun 10, 2003 at 11:53:48AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
This fails the Monotonicity Criterion (MC)
On Wed, Jun 11, 2003 at 01:10:05AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Doesn't this depend on (a) the order in which the votes are received,
No.
[I'm busy at the moment, but I'll try
?
Hamish
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to the constitution it
should be voted on. Further it seems to address some real problems in
the new proposed system.
Hamish
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show up we can't vote concept of classic quorum. If people are
confused by the fact that we're voting on a mailing list (rather than
in person), that's sad but it's not a reason to use an inferior mechanism.
What's wrong with classic quorum though? Why is your method superior?
hamish
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that their two responsibilities as Australian citizens are
jury duty and voting.
I suppose it would be unworkable for Debian though.
Hamish
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and understand it. I'm amazed at how little explanation there has
been aimed at the non-voting geeks.
I wonder how it would stand up to the scrutiny of a lot more eyes.
There still seem to be some unresolved issues.
Hamish
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in making a
decision about the issue.
Hamish
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On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 10:25:20AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Thu, 19 Jun 2003 22:58:59 +1000, Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
To be honest I wonder if this GR is only going to pass because of
indifference. I wonder how many developers have actually read
through the GR
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in talking about that,
?! Then why the hell are you making this proposal?
Hamish
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would not improve free and would make Debian less
usable to Japanese, Korean and Chinese users.
For what benefit? Andrew Suffield isn't interested in discussing that.
Hamish
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to a library in main that is depends on, for example.
Hamish
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that non-free is important and useful.
Prove that it isn't.
Hamish
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On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 04:01:43AM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
On Jan 5, 2004, at 22:03, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
I'm not going to respond to that, other than to point out that it
is based on the assumption that non-free is important and useful.
Prove that it isn't.
It is the duty
now.
Hamish
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On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 09:49:05AM -0600, John Goerzen wrote:
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 08:15:59PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 10:59:10PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
Please provide examples.
We're still missing those examples, please John.
Those examples
On Thu, Jan 08, 2004 at 04:30:33PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Tue, Jan 06, 2004 at 01:50:20PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Sun, Jan 04, 2004 at 02:34:44PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
I guess the point was that GNOME managed to use debbugs for them, so why
shouldn't
/|^/usr/games/|\.[ah]$} or next;
The above xpdf-* packages don't contain any binaries, so no results will
be collected. There are some other packages like that in non-free too.
Hamish
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would be affected.
But most importantly, to me:
4. It's a major PITA for our users.
Hamish
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common ways of dealing with the BTS. That leaves
the PTS and I don't know enough about that.
PTS is a developer tool, not a user tool.
Hamish
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+BpqkHhjjHP2M9CiPOhRTqksoK451zqwihOXsASFvS5+Uew==
=mkrq
-END PGP SIGNATURE-
I second this proposal.
I believe it is Raul's latest at this time.
Hamish
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though;
Editorial changes;
Editorial changes + Andrew's remove non-free proposal
Andrew's remove non-free proposal only
Editorial changes + Raul's clarify non-free proposal
Raul's clarify non-free proposal only
Further discussion ie no change
Hamish
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. I think this is an excellent proposal.
Hamish
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On Tue, Jan 13, 2004 at 10:22:04AM +, MJ Ray wrote:
On 2004-01-11 07:34:37 + Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No, that's a major PITA to our developers. (I said the above.)
So what were you calling a major PITA to our users, then?
Lots of it. Dealing with a new archive
well be illegal.
(Not mplayer itself of course but the required libraries etc.)
I think we would be stupid to split our repository into two and
create the very problems Ted pointed out.
Hamish
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binaries are licensed. To me, that would fall under clause
Well, practically speaking we don't need binary compatibility for free
software because we can recreate those binaries from source. The LSB
ensures we can run existing binaries without source, which are all
non-free programs.
Hamish
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On Wed, Jan 14, 2004 at 09:03:47AM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
Let's hold off on seconding this proposal until the 17th. There's a
non-zero chance that it will need to be changed again.
Yep:
5. Programs that doesn't meet our free-software standards
s/Programs/Software/
Hamish
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on the end of that line.
Thanks,
Hamish
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On Sun, Jan 18, 2004 at 05:10:08PM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote:
Coordination fixes that. It'd be fairly simple for debian to host a
package name registry, for example.
Wouldn't that count as supporting non-free software though?
Hamish
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. It's questionable whether other
groups should be distributing those either. That doesn't have any
relevance to the rest of non-free though, being composed of packages
that we _can_ distribute.
Hamish
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==
=HGNp
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Seconded. (It's now the 20th here.)
Hamish
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OU7BXs4mwZFKItFaUgetNcBIpHccLlH5pLvHqCimMnkAMaNg4gKWeHEdSC+7laBk
Owsx3lgA7CwLsnEPDbvqnFU2Yfg3hNzg8B9k2zwMP19PRml0GwJRbA==
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free will.
Hamish
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On Mon, Jan 26, 2004 at 02:17:16AM +, Andrew Suffield wrote:
Bugs are things that break software, not arbitrary third-party
specifications.
We consider violations for the FHS to be be bugs. Why is that different?
Hamish
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of the original which has been
carried over. We don't make any committment not to keep non-free
documentation out of main, only non-free software.
Thanks
Hamish
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software packages.
==
I'm a bit late, but I second this too. Thanks for proposing it Andrew.
And thanks to Raul for his early proposals. (And sorry I dropped off the
face of the list half way though.)
Hamish
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On Thu, Feb 26, 2004 at 07:00:36PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Sun, Feb 22, 2004 at 01:48:48AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
I propose that the Debian project resolve that:
==
Acknowledging that some of our users
?).
Hamish
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.
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On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 10:38:10AM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
On Sat, Mar 06, 2004 at 05:48:23PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Don't trivialise on debian.org to just an /etc/apt/sources.list entry
though. The advantage IMHO to having Debian host non-free packages is
quality control
believe that we will have
non-free.org up at about the same time we drop non-free from the Debian
archive.
However the GR does not require that, so nobody can depend on it.
The answer to Gerfried's question is further discussion I believe.
Hamish
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a big part of why
I don't want non-free removed from ftp.debian.org yet.
Hamish
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for your
Pentium 4 or Athlon XP processor. But then you may think it's quite
reasonable to demand the source code for both...
Actually said source code would probably be quite useful from an
educational POV.
Hamish
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users who can't view PDFs in their own language without packages
like cmap-adobe-japan1, xpdf-japanese etc?
It's not like they can choose to use the free nv driver instead of the
closed source nvidia; TTBOMK there is no free solution at all.
Hamish
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On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 03:43:47PM +0100, Michael Banck wrote:
On Wed, Mar 10, 2004 at 11:38:47PM +1100, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
I suspect some of our users might not want to use packages from a
less trusted source. I would have concerns myself.
Of course, and this was indeed one the prime
On Sat, Mar 20, 2004 at 11:49:55AM +1100, Daniel Stone wrote:
they're wrong. Where if someone slips up and gets a little
overenthusiastic,
Err, you think that uploading a major new version of a major
package is a slip up?
It seems a bit more deliberate than that to me.
Hamish
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:-)
In Australia we have a 'blackout' on electronic media advertising for
the three full days before an election.
http://www.aec.gov.au/_content/what/faqs/elect_ad.htm
(Polling days are always Saturdays, and advertising is banned from
midnight on the previous Wednesday.)
Hamish
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things;
it's a project, an OS, among others.
So Debian will remain 100% Free Software is not entirely clear,
given that Debian is a bunch of people in certain contexts.
Why not spell out the context?
Hamish
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On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 04:31:49AM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Mon, Mar 29, 2004 at 01:21:33AM -0500, Nathanael Nerode wrote:
Raul Miller wrote:
* There are people in Debian.
Fine, there are a bunch of silly interpretations as well. The context
indicates
was surprised when the secretary
called for votes because the proposal wasn't anything close to ready for
voting.
The tally sheet makes interesting reading:
http://www.debian.org/vote/2004/gr_editorial_tally.txt
Draw your own conclusions.
Hamish
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On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 10:22:50AM +0100, Jochen Voss wrote:
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 12:31:15AM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Usually it refers to changes that clarify the meaning without changing
that meaning. I'd be interested in hearing your definition, since you
seconded the GR.
Yes
On Mon, Apr 26, 2004 at 10:34:55AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 00:31:15 +1000, Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
I'm stunned that this GR passed. I was surprised when the secretary
called for votes because the proposal wasn't anything close to ready
for voting
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 11:43:05AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2004 20:22:27 +1000, Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
Perhaps for our next GR, we can contemplate whether it's appropriate
that less than 20% of the developers is enough to change one of our
most
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 01:08:05PM +0100, Andrew Suffield wrote:
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 04:02:47PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
No, you need 46 people and only three quarters of them need agree.
That is less than 4% of our developer community.
(My mistake; each valid option must have
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 09:53:04AM -0400, Buddha Buck wrote:
Hamish Moffatt wrote:
[bad stuff]
I don't like Manoj's tone in this thread. It's harsh, accusatory, and
somewhat rude. It seems like he is reacting defensively, as if he feels
people are blaming him for the results they don't
To The Social Contract
(2004 vote 003) be immediately rescinded.
I second this amendment. It deserves to be an option on the ballet.
Hamish
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the
proposer had indeed called for one.
Hamish
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for our local politicians.
Cheers
Hamish
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sooner.
I think you should say which is not free, rather than which is not
free software, given the text of your new SC.
This is not a formal proposal for an amendment. I don't want
to be associated with your proposal.
Hamish
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about the freedoms expected for everything on a Debian CD, as
well as the near universal agreement on debian-legal attest to the
clear meaning of the DFSG.
An impartial analysis would be more useful I think.
Hamish
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, we resolve that all programs must meet the
DFSG, and all software must be legally distributable.
Are you deliberately using both software and programs, and
do you therefore mean different things by them? Could you please define
them?
Hamish
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at its finest. Are you not aware that you are the
proposer of the two most divisive GRs that Debian has ever had?
It is interesting that this does not occur on most lists. I think we
have a troll infestation.
We certainly do.
Hamish
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, at the expense of all else.
Yes, some developers think that, as is their right. Would you please
allow others to have opinions that differ from your own?
The current vote will determine what the majority of voters think.
Hopefully that will be the end of it.
Hamish
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On Wed, Jun 23, 2004 at 11:27:07PM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The current vote will determine what the majority of voters think.
Hopefully that will be the end of it.
Not likely. The last vote determined what 3/4 of the voters thought
On Thu, Jun 24, 2004 at 12:57:20AM -0700, Thomas Bushnell, BSG wrote:
Hamish Moffatt [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
That was because the voters were 20% of the developers, as you well
know. I'm also hoping that we've engaged enough of the developers that
we might get a representative vote
On Fri, Jun 25, 2004 at 05:25:28AM +0100, Andrew Suffield wrote:
[You have quite neatly just demonstrated what argumentum ad hominem
actually is, though].
Do you have that phrase on a macro key yet?
Bored,
Hamish
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Hamish
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