t to also be willing to contribute financially to its
development :P)
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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Is it inappropriate to go back to the official mailing list archives and munge
the announcement that was made?
Steve Langasek
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to work. Infighting among developers takes the focus away from both free
software and our users, and telling dozens of developers[1] to shove off and
use procmail if they don't like the state of things is just the sort of
reaction that would encourage infighting.
Steve Langasek
postmodern
to solve technical problems.
Do you believe there are other, non-technical obstacles that prevent the
implementation of a Debian source forge today? In other words, how do
you believe being DPL will help you achieve the goal of creating a
source forge for Debian?
Steve Langasek
postmodern
most attacks, but then you still either have to generate a token
on the server side to replace it or invalidate the vote.)
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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, and carries with it
a different degree of overhead.
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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%.
Spam delivered via the Debian mailing lists is a separate issue from spam
delivered using addresses *gleaned* from Debian mailing lists. Isn't
this thread about the latter?
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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is to avoid causing a
furious schism.)
What would ever give you the idea that we try to avoid schisms?
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without also permitting insincere votes to cause a win for other options.
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to the
DFSG is not formally a question of law?
And that, so long as the ftpmasters take the advice dispensed on
debian-legal, you don't really get a choice wrt listening to debian-legal
as regards the operations of Debian?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
msg02384/pgp0.pgp
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.
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 11:14:19PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
On Fri, Jun 13, 2003 at 10:27:00AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
In contrast, with an electronic vote that's open for an extended period
and for which quorum is calculated per-vote, classic quorum means it
may be in your best
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 12:23:28PM -0700, John H. Robinson, IV wrote:
Steve Langasek wrote:
Enforced voting in order to ensure quorum is precisely an outcome I
*don't* want. Lack of quorum indicates lack of interest in the issue,
and such a lack of interest should be given appropriate
I second Branden Robinson's amendment of
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED].
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hasty changes that the
constitution itself enjoys.
==
Seconded.
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.
Actually, I disagree with one of the editorial changes (on-line -
online), but I haven't found any semantic changes in the proposal that I
think I disagree with. I haven't decided yet if I care about the
editorial change enough to vote against the GR. ;P
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
On Mon, Nov 03, 2003 at 01:58:25PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Sun, Nov 02, 2003 at 05:17:55PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
Consider the amendment (in name only),
Replace lines ^ through $ with the words, Debian should continue to
produce a distribution.
Huh? Do you mean replace
of its actual removal, which is also a valid viewpoint. If
people really feel it's important to tie the non-free removal question
to the SC amendment question, then, it seems to me there ought to be
three ballot options.
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postmodern programmer
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isn't actually
asking anyone to *do* anything? :)
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exactly what the
system intends them to do.
Which hardly seems like an example of insincere voting to me.
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postmodern programmer
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any of the same
worries with supermajority/quorum. But yes/no votes may not be common
enough in practice to justify the added complexity in the constitution
itself.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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, I don't agree with the claim that one can never prefer
further discussion over any (or all) of the options on a ballot.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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and adding competing alternatives
can only prejudice the original proposal if the success of that proposal
depended on an ambiguous meaning.
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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, in order to give people plenty of time (3
years?) to migrate to free alternatives or find different hosting for
their non-free packages.
harumph So the palatibility of this proposal depends on the premise
that our release schedules will continue to get worse?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern
with the rationale.
Ah. Understood. Will do so in the future.
I encourage anyone who wants to propose my suggestion to do so as well.
FWIW, I believe including rationale in the body of the resolution is
sometimes important -- the trick is including a rationale that voters
will agree with.
--
Steve Langasek
it to be known
where the developership stands on the question I proposed, and he gets
the requisite seconds, isn't it better to call the vote rather than
discussing interminably?
Particularly when voting on a resolution which appears to be toothless
by design?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
for unrar.
Interesting statistics. Thanks for doing this, John.
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Steve Langasek
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that Debian gave me a 2.2 kernel.
So how about if we go ahead and get this thing moved to a vote, so we
can all get back to working on the sarge installer?
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Steve Langasek
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On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 02:57:02PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
That's where we address things like what's the point?
On Wed, Jan 07, 2004 at 01:35:34PM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
However, the discussion period is intended to be finite, it's not
supposed to be used as a filibuster.
I
as part of its Shared
Source initiative, that source code would also be almost free.
But though I disagree with your subjective assessment of the nature of
non-free, I again want to thank you for what is clearly one of the most
worthwhile posts to this thread so far.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern
.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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efforts to lead by example.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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will
provide an integrated system of high-quality materials with no legal
restrictions that would prevent such uses of the system.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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?
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield
--
|--
1. Debian will remain 100% free | 1. Debian will remain 100% free
software
, what we have is the original author of the DFSG stating
he intended documentation to be covered by the DFSG, and various other
people saying it was never really discussed.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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. Since the DMUP is
effectively a policy statement of the DSA team, would they necessarily
be bound to enforce the amended version? If they wouldn't, is there any
benefit to attaching this to the DMUP?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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of people have inconsistent outlooks
on various aspects of the non-free issue. For example, consider the
thread which contains repeated claims about human ethics and the evilness
non-free software.
Consider that the person perpetrating that thread doesn't have a vote
here.
--
Steve Langasek
On Sun, Jan 25, 2004 at 11:42:38AM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
On Sat, Jan 24, 2004 at 11:48:55AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
So I don't think that the mere presence of non-DFSG-free
documentation in main demonstrates that this is a reinterpretation; it
would be much more compelling
strategy.
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 12:57:16PM -0500, Raul Miller wrote:
On Fri, Jan 30, 2004 at 11:23:29AM -0600, Steve Langasek wrote:
This seems like a pretty good example of how sometimes, distributing
non-free software ultimately benefits... no one except for non-free
software authors.
So, if I
between me and it?
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Steve Langasek
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after the developer if they disappear again? Why would
trying to assure ourselves that developers will follow procedures be a
punishment, rather than an act of self-preservation?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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that people came up with are acceptable to you,
there's further discussion, as others have pointed out.
Cheers,
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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if there's anything constructive I can say in
the context he's created, and I'm not coming up with any good ideas.
Yes -- this seems to be the problem with Craig.
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Steve Langasek
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Description: Digital signature
this as a
diff (unified diff would be nice, but verbal diff is ok ;) against
Andrew's proposal, rather than referencing the original SC.
Thanks,
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
| 1. Debian Will Remain 100% Free Software
|
| We promise to keep the Debian system and all its components entirely
this,
this could happen - but it costs us a lot of time that I'd rather see
put into fixing bugs.
100% agreed.
Cheers,
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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for
it on its own, though.
Thanks,
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postmodern programmer
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-considered or wrong, please see paragraph one. Two weeks should be
plenty of time to convince five of your friends that your idea is
better.
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Steve Langasek
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saying we can release sarge as-is and on-schedule
without a GR, but I don't see how that's possible.
Thanks,
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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schedule back on track in what
I deem the most efficient manner possible. What are *you* interested
in?
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On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 03:54:30PM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
On 2004-04-28 14:43:20 +0100 Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 10:43:15AM +0100, MJ Ray wrote:
I am not particularly interested in providing a comprehensive list
of
ballot options to cover all possible
authority to tell aj that he's wrong to
follow the Social Contract more strictly than I would. Do you?
I also think that, whichever way the GR is worded, it warrants the 3:1
supermajority requirement because it does impact our implementation of
the foundation documents.
Cheers,
--
Steve Langasek
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 04:55:29AM -0400, Raul Miller wrote:
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 08:41:35PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
1. that the amendments to the Social Contract contained within the
General Resolution Editorial Amendments To The Social Contract
(2004 vote 003
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 04:59:00PM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 08:41:35PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
1. that the amendments to the Social Contract contained within the
General Resolution Editorial Amendments To The Social Contract
(2004 vote 003
the discussion period (which I don't
believe will be the case). It's definitely not too early, IMHO, to try
to get the discussion moving and get everyone's amendments out on the
table.
Thanks,
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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Description: Digital signature
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 11:20:50AM -0700, Matt Zimmerman wrote:
On Wed, Apr 28, 2004 at 12:44:49PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
I've cc:ed our stable release manager, ftp-masters, and the security
team, in the hopes that they'll offer some insight into their
understanding of their own
On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 09:45:18AM +1000, Craig Sanders wrote:
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 08:41:35PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
The Debian Project,
affirming its committment to principles of freeness for all works it
distributes,
but recognizing that changing the Social Contract today
*, if he understood the concept of civility.
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 10:11:24AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Tue, Apr 27, 2004 at 08:41:35PM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
The Debian Project,
affirming its committment to principles of freeness for all works it
distributes
meaningful for images than for programs, though
it's also not universally accepted. There are quite a few modifications
one can usefully make to a bitmapped image, compared to relatively few
changes you can make to a binary executable.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
signature.asc
On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 05:00:12PM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 09:48:46AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
On Thu, Apr 29, 2004 at 10:11:24AM +0200, Wouter Verhelst wrote:
Craig Sanders [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
i propose an amendment that deletes everything but clause 1
in between would be quite arbitrary, and I
think it's reasonable to ask for a clarification from the project at
large before picking an arbitrary point.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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to the end of this transition period shall be governed by the
previous version of these documents for the duration of its stable
release cycle.
Hmm. OTOH, this seems like a poor fit for the constitution. It still
doesn't seem to me like it needs a whole new document, though.
Cheers,
--
Steve
Mr. Secretary,
Under section A.2 of the constitution, I hereby call for a vote on
general resolution 2004-004, Sarge Release Schedule in view of GR
2004-003.
I believe the wording of the resolution and amendments that should
appear on the ballot is as follows:
Proposal A:
The Debian Project,
own conclusions about their intents, but as we've seen from GR
003, it's the wording that we're voting on, not intent.
Regards,
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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you to change your vote any time up until the
close of the polling period.
Thanks,
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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in blaming people for the present state of affairs --
not AJ, not my co-sponsors of 003 -- only in getting things situated so
we can get back to our job of releasing the most complete Free OS that
ever existed (whatever the community decides this should actually mean).
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern
and beyond what is
necessary for a self-sustaining port.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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think letting the leader handle this is the right solution, why
would you still want to second this inflammatory GR?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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identified by
dpkg as amd64, hereinafter amd64, to the unstable archive, is
violating the constituion and is warned to follow it.
Is that less of a no-op?
No, then it's just a lie.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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Branden.
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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with
irrelevant drivel about a non-candidate; why aren't you? Is being an ass to
your peers really the only strategy you find effective in life?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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appreciate?
If you feel this is off-topic for -vote, by all means please redirect
the discussion to a more appropriate list.
Thanks,
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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Description: Digital signature
? (Seriously, I've seen a bit more from
looking at the BTS and upload statistics, but the flamewars are the most
visible act so far.)
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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to do with my time, without
also trying to be a DPL puppetmaster, and if I thought any of the candidates
were going to expect me to pull their strings, I wouldn't vote for them. :)
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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On Mon, Mar 07, 2005 at 01:46:58PM -0500, Branden Robinson wrote:
On Fri, Mar 04, 2005 at 01:57:55AM -0800, Steve Langasek wrote:
In your platform this year, you mention a grounding in legal issues as one
of the things that you have to offer the project as DPL.
Over the past year
be
collected. As a matter of fact, I just started one[3].
Feel free to incorporate the above answers into that page; as noted before,
I don't think a wiki is a very effective tool for ongoing discussions.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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on platforms,
nowadays, rather than personal knowledge of the candidates?
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Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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to contribute financially to its
development :P)
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
if you don't look at mine...
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
there.
Is it inappropriate to go back to the official mailing list archives and munge
the announcement that was made?
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
to work. Infighting among developers takes the focus away from both free
software and our users, and telling dozens of developers[1] to shove off and
use procmail if they don't like the state of things is just the sort of
reaction that would encourage infighting.
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
to solve technical problems.
Do you believe there are other, non-technical obstacles that prevent the
implementation of a Debian source forge today? In other words, how do
you believe being DPL will help you achieve the goal of creating a
source forge for Debian?
Steve Langasek
postmodern
number of UID entries in LDAP: 1098
Hmm. An LDAP search on just objectclass=debiandeveloper finds 1042
matches. So, I guess I'm overlooking something. shrug
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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%.
Spam delivered via the Debian mailing lists is a separate issue from spam
delivered using addresses *gleaned* from Debian mailing lists. Isn't
this thread about the latter?
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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is to avoid causing a
furious schism.)
What would ever give you the idea that we try to avoid schisms?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
discussion
without also permitting insincere votes to cause a win for other options.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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Description: PGP signature
to the
DFSG is not formally a question of law?
And that, so long as the ftpmasters take the advice dispensed on
debian-legal, you don't really get a choice wrt listening to debian-legal
as regards the operations of Debian?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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with
the Release Manager before mandating any sort of time frame.
Does this mean you believe it falls within the authority of the DPL to
mandate [a] time frame for releases? Who would be bound by such a
mandate, and what would be the consequences of failing to meet such a
release deadline?
--
Steve
-default options have the *same* quorum requirement,
this is exactly what would happen.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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meaningful to distinguish between the default
option wins and the entire vote is thrown out? When is status quo
!= the default option?
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 06:59:51PM +0200, Guido Trotter wrote:
On Wed, May 21, 2003 at 10:05:47AM -0500, Steve Langasek wrote:
If the winning option is discarded due to quorum requirements, then
given that all non-default options have the *same* quorum requirement,
this is exactly what
in favour of B causes B to loose. This is a problem. And the
problem is caused by the per-option quorum.
But it's not the vote in favor of *B* that causes B to lose, it's the
vote in favor of *E* that causes B to lose.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
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A. that is a 2:1
margin. that is a 2/3'ds majority in favour of A, and it still lost.
Of course it lost -- because 100% of the voters considered B acceptable,
and only 67% of voters considered A acceptable. This is the desired
outcome given the votes in question.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern
to start flame wars. Choosing A is a good way
not to. Choosing D is a good way to come up with a better option.
Which is chosen?
We've been around the block a few too many times to believe that *any*
election method would actually succeed in avoiding flame wars. ;)
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern
On Thu, Jun 19, 2003 at 02:58:33AM +1000, Glenn McGrath wrote:
On Wed, 18 Jun 2003 09:36:23 -0500
Steve Langasek [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, Jun 18, 2003 at 11:14:19PM +1000, Hamish Moffatt wrote:
Perhaps we could have compulsory voting then :-|
Why would rendering us unable
Seconded.
--
Steve Langasek
postmodern programmer
On Sun, Sep 21, 2003 at 10:59:31PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
Hi folks,
Here is my amended proposal, further changed by incorporating
Branden's suggestions. Would the sponsors of my proposal approve of
this changed wording
I second Branden Robinson's amendment of
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED].
--
Steve Langasek
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