On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 03:28, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
You may be aware that there was a recent initiative (from the marketing
team, I think) to contact the release managers for various GNOME based
I'm not sure who it might have been because this is the first I've heard of
any
Hi Johannes,
Johannes Schmid wrote:
GNOME 2.x will not get any more official support after the 2.32.1 relase
which already happened. Single module maintainers may decide (or have
already decided/done) to do more 2.32.x release to fix various bugs but
no more official releases are planned.
Hi Jon,
I'm confused...
William Jon McCann wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Vincent Untz vu...@gnome.org wrote:
Sure, it's not our priority nor target, in terms of development (and it
shouldn't be). But to a lot of people, fallback means you'll get some
ugly stuff that barely works,
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 10:28:42AM +0100, Dave Neary wrote:
Hi Johannes,
Johannes Schmid wrote:
GNOME 2.x will not get any more official support after the 2.32.1 relase
which already happened. Single module maintainers may decide (or have
already decided/done) to do more 2.32.x release
Hey guys.
It is second class I don't think there is any point in whitewashing
it. Whether or not you get something that barely works has everything
to do with how much attention it gets in design, development, and
testing. If you want to use something for a fallback that won't
really
Am Donnerstag, den 30.12.2010, 15:55 -0600 schrieb Brian Cameron:
Regardless of whether the
GNOME community provides any more official support after 2.32.1, distros
will continue to support their supported products.
Distros could work together in these efforts. I see no reason why such
Le mercredi 29 décembre 2010 à 15:22 -0500, William Jon McCann a
écrit :
That simple JS based fallback panel/menubar idea is sounding better
and better... anyone want to give it a shot?
This would be completely useless. Who would use that?
People are not attached to the panel just because
Josselin Mouette j...@debian.org writes:
Le mercredi 29 décembre 2010 à 15:22 -0500, William Jon McCann a écrit
:
That simple JS based fallback panel/menubar idea is sounding better
and better... anyone want to give it a shot?
This would be completely useless. Who would use that?
Just
Hi!
For example, I cannot personally consider the shell as usable as long as
it features those unusable two-dimensional iPhone menus - not counting
the fact I don’t own hardware that can run it. The panel’s menu is
simply better thought.
Sidenote: check jhbuild of gnome-shell, it has
On Thu, Dec 30, 2010 at 06:54:04AM -0500, Bill O'Connor wrote:
You can also expect that installers won't be providing a choice between
version 2 and version 3 of GNOME, but rather a choice between
gnome-panel and gnome-shell, with gnome-panel possibly being the
default.
Which distribution do
Le jeudi 30 décembre 2010 à 13:08 +0100, Johannes Schmid a écrit :
Sidenote: check jhbuild of gnome-shell, it has categories again in the
menu.
It is great to learn this has been finally fixed, thanks.
So in the future, please don't express opinion on things that you
haven't tested.
I’m
Johannes Schmid wrote:
For example, I cannot personally consider the shell as usable as long as
it features those unusable two-dimensional iPhone menus - not counting
the fact I don’t own hardware that can run it. The panel’s menu is
simply better thought.
Sidenote: check jhbuild of
Emmanuele:
On 12/28/10 10:50 AM, Emmanuele Bassi wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 13:42 +, Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
As pointed out before the fallback-mode is not a continuation of
GNOME 2. It was just the easiest way to create a fallback because we
don't have the resources to create a
Hi Brian!
Am Donnerstag, den 30.12.2010, 13:03 -0600 schrieb Brian Cameron:
For example, I have concerns about how GNOME 2.x is going to be
maintained in the long run, and I think a lot of issues raised in this
discussion relate to such concerns. To me, it seems that GNOME 2.32
and later 2.x
Johannes:
GNOME 2.x will not get any more official support after the 2.32.1 relase
which already happened. Single module maintainers may decide (or have
already decided/done) to do more 2.32.x release to fix various bugs but
no more official releases are planned.
This is not different from
El jue, 30-12-2010 a las 22:34 +0100, Johannes Schmid escribió:
Despite that and this is what this thread is about, GNOME will maintain
a non-3D user-experience in the future which will likely use some
components of the GNOME 2.x stack but ported to GNOME 3 technologies (no
parallel
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 22:18:19 +0100 2010:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 05:53:35PM +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos wrote:
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 17:25:31 +0100 2010:
Are you talking about the 3.0 version? I'd expect bonobo to be dropped
for
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 16:53 +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos a écrit :
Is the GNOME 3 panel compatible with the GNOME 2 applets?
There's no gnome 3 panel, gnome-panel hasn't been ported to gtk3 yet,
there's a branch but it's outdated and it still doesn't work.
That’s good then. But does
Excerpts from Emmanuele Bassi's message of mar dic 28 23:47:29 +0100 2010:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 23:07 +0100, Luca Ferretti wrote:
Il giorno mar, 28/12/2010 alle 16.50 +, Emmanuele Bassi ha scritto:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 13:42 +, Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
Sergey, who sometimes
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 12:43 AM, Carlos Garcia Campos
carlo...@gnome.org wrote:
If I couldn't use gnome-shell, I
would still want to upgrade all other modules to 3.0 and use a
fallback mode without loosing the weather applet, for example.
The standard answer here seems to be:
--
You may lose
On Wed, 2010-12-29 at 09:43 +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos wrote:
it is, in fact, an exact assessment of what anyone who wishes to keep
the old user experience should do: there's no need to ever upgrade if
the 2.x UX is doing the job.
My only concern is people who *can't* use gnome-shell
El mié, 29-12-2010 a las 10:05 +, Emmanuele Bassi escribió:
On Wed, 2010-12-29 at 09:43 +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos wrote:
it is, in fact, an exact assessment of what anyone who wishes to keep
the old user experience should do: there's no need to ever upgrade if
the 2.x UX is doing
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 15:19 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
It will be important to get people writing extensions before the
release happens i think. (sorry went into marketing mode...!)
I take the liberty of saying that as person who tried to write an
extension (some time ago):
- Lack of
Le mercredi 29 décembre 2010 à 00:54 -0800, Sandy Armstrong a écrit :
You may lose features in 3.0 *with* gnome-shell, and you may lose even
more features in 3.0 *without* gnome-shell. These features will take
time to return in 3.2, 3.4, etc.
Folks who don't want to lose features like this
Hi!
So, if by upgrading g-c-c, g-s-d, g-session and other major components
to 3.0, we are going to break g-panel, I’d like to know that now, not
when it is too late and 3.0 has already been released.
The gnome-panel shipped in fallback mode will/should work with GNOME 3
components. That's
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Xan Lopez x...@gnome.org wrote:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Luca Ferretti lferr...@gnome.org
wrote:
Sergey, who sometimes prefers to look backwards rather than forward
no problem with that. you can maintain the old user experience for
yourself and
Le mercredi 29 décembre 2010, à 09:34 +0100, Josselin Mouette a écrit :
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 16:53 +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos a écrit :
Is the GNOME 3 panel compatible with the GNOME 2 applets?
There's no gnome 3 panel, gnome-panel hasn't been ported to gtk3 yet,
there's a
Hi Vincent,
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Vincent Untz vu...@gnome.org wrote:
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010, à 15:20 +0100, Olav Vitters a écrit :
However, the fallback is meant as a fallback, not as providing
gnome-panel and its applets. So I don't see anything wrong with not
providing the
That's not realistic. Distributions won't allow people to choose between
GNOME 2 and 3, which means people will be forced to stick to releases
That depends on the distribution providing they can be parallel
installed, and on what the volunteers involved or staff paid to work on
them want to do.
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Maciej Piechotka uzytkown...@gmail.comwrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 15:19 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
It will be important to get people writing extensions before the
release happens i think. (sorry went into marketing mode...!)
I take the liberty of
On Wed, 2010-12-29 at 13:41 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 4:08 AM, Maciej Piechotka
uzytkown...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 15:19 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
It will be important to get people writing extensions
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 2:22 PM, Maciej Piechotka uzytkown...@gmail.comwrote:
I'm sorry if I sound accusing of something. I wanted to point out what I
found to be biggest limitation of writing extensions to gnome-shell.
I gave up very quickly due to time limitations - I had done none work at
On Wed, Dec 29, 2010 at 09:50:10PM +0100, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote:
It's OK if we lose a few weird applets, but not if gnome-panel loses
significant features people will miss badly.
Totally disagree when it is meant to be called anything other than
'fallback'.
Fallback is clear: unsupported,
Don't think there is 3d on ppc.
There is. I have it on Power G5.
I think the fact that GNOME kills gnome-applets make GNOME2
compatibility mode a bad joke (if not hypocrisy). A good number of
people would like to use that mode (I run voting some while ago at
linux.org.ru - can provide url if
On 28 December 2010 12:53, Sergey Udaltsov sergey.udalt...@gmail.com wrote:
I think the fact that GNOME kills gnome-applets make GNOME2
compatibility mode a bad joke (if not hypocrisy). A good number of
people would like to use that mode (I run voting some while ago at
linux.org.ru - can
What you want is not Gnome 3 then. You want to continue using Gnome 2
and there's no one preventing you from doing that.
So, why bother maintaining gnome2 support mode at all? go to hell,
just do not upgrade is unbeatable argument, I must admit.
Actually, your advice effectively stops people
Excerpts from Rui Tiago Cação Matos's message of mar dic 28 14:02:55 +0100 2010:
On 28 December 2010 12:53, Sergey Udaltsov sergey.udalt...@gmail.com wrote:
I think the fact that GNOME kills gnome-applets make GNOME2
compatibility mode a bad joke (if not hypocrisy). A good number of
people
Hi!
Am Dienstag, den 28.12.2010, 13:09 + schrieb Sergey Udaltsov:
Actually, your advice effectively stops people from upgrading their
distros, unless the distro choses to support both gnome2 and gnome3 -
which I'm afraid will not be the case for most of them. To be fair,
gnome2+3
As pointed out before the fallback-mode is not a continuation of GNOME 2.
It was just the easiest way to create a fallback because we don't have the
resources to create a non-3D shell that could act as a fallback. As we have
gnome-panel already it was choosen as the fallback mode.
Is it an
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 13:02 +, Rui Tiago Cação Matos a écrit :
What you want is not Gnome 3 then. You want to continue using Gnome 2
and there's no one preventing you from doing that.
Is the GNOME 3 panel compatible with the GNOME 2 applets?
If so, that’s fine. We distributors can
It seems, there are, in theory, 5 options for fallback/compatibility:
1. Make g-s and mutter scalable down to envs without 3d
2. Provide full compat/fallback mode, with panel and applets
3. Provide restricted fallback mode, only gnome-panel, just enough to do
smth
4. Same as #3, just very basic
Excerpts from Josselin Mouette's message of mar dic 28 15:03:45 +0100 2010:
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 13:02 +, Rui Tiago Cação Matos a écrit :
What you want is not Gnome 3 then. You want to continue using Gnome 2
and there's no one preventing you from doing that.
Is the GNOME 3 panel
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 15:20:05 +0100 2010:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 03:03:45PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 13:02 +, Rui Tiago Cação Matos a écrit :
What you want is not Gnome 3 then. You want to continue using Gnome 2
and
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 04:54:43PM +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos wrote:
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 15:20:05 +0100 2010:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 03:03:45PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mardi 28 décembre 2010 à 13:02 +, Rui Tiago Cação Matos a écrit :
What
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 13:42 +, Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
As pointed out before the fallback-mode is not a continuation of
GNOME 2. It was just the easiest way to create a fallback because we
don't have the resources to create a non-3D shell that could act as a
fallback. As we have
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 17:25:31 +0100 2010:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 04:54:43PM +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos wrote:
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 15:20:05 +0100 2010:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 03:03:45PM +0100, Josselin Mouette wrote:
Le mardi
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 05:53:35PM +0100, Carlos Garcia Campos wrote:
Excerpts from Olav Vitters's message of mar dic 28 17:25:31 +0100 2010:
Are you talking about the 3.0 version? I'd expect bonobo to be dropped
for a 3.0 panel.
I'm talking about gnome panel from git master, vuntz added
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 10:18:19PM +0100, Olav Vitters wrote:
Also for 2.x? For 3.0 I don't expect anything other than no bonobo, as
bonobo is deprecated and we're dropping all deprecated stuff. My only
wonder is regarding gnome-panel + applets being the fallback option.. so
'applets'
Il giorno mar, 28/12/2010 alle 16.50 +, Emmanuele Bassi ha scritto:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 13:42 +, Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
Sergey, who sometimes prefers to look backwards rather than forward
no problem with that. you can maintain the old user experience for
yourself and never
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 11:07 PM, Luca Ferretti lferr...@gnome.org wrote:
Sergey, who sometimes prefers to look backwards rather than forward
no problem with that. you can maintain the old user experience for
yourself and never upgrade.
and snarkyness is never going to get you anything,
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 23:07 +0100, Luca Ferretti wrote:
Il giorno mar, 28/12/2010 alle 16.50 +, Emmanuele Bassi ha scritto:
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 13:42 +, Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
Sergey, who sometimes prefers to look backwards rather than forward
no problem with that. you can
2010/12/28 Sergey Udaltsov sergey.udalt...@gmail.com
What you want is not Gnome 3 then. You want to continue using Gnome 2
and there's no one preventing you from doing that.
So, why bother maintaining gnome2 support mode at all? go to hell,
just do not upgrade is unbeatable argument, I must
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 15:19 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
I don't want to see us alienate large swathes of our 3% desktop market
share. :-)
I think this is a myth that should be debunked. at least, I strongly
believe that it *will* be debunked as soon as distributions start
shipping GNOME
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com wrote:
by the way, this whole thread is pretty angry and confrontational - or,
at least, it feels a lot that way.
It has. I think though as a project we're not quite managing this as well
as we could. Not enough context for
Hi!
Am Dienstag, den 28.12.2010, 15:44 -0800 schrieb Sriram Ramkrishna:
I have the perception that information on what all is going on is
getting lost in the noise. What is the canonical point where
information on this stuff need to flow to? Seems to me you need to
pick someone or maybe
I generally agree with what you said, so I won't reply to every thing.
On Tue, 2010-12-28 at 15:44 -0800, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
On Tue, Dec 28, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Emmanuele Bassi eba...@gmail.com
wrote:
by the way, this whole thread is pretty angry and
confrontational -
On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 1:34 AM, Frederic Crozat f...@crozat.net wrote:
for nvidia, gnome-shell is not usable with proprietary driver
What do you mean by this? Every time I've tested on nvidia hardware
with the proprietary driver, shell performance has been totally
usable. It's not lightning
What do you mean by this? Every time I've tested on nvidia hardware
with the proprietary driver, shell performance has been totally
usable. It's not lightning fast, but I don't think any hardware
change would fix that.
Usable is a rather hard to quantify thing. Not lightning fast to some
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 3:42 PM, Sandy Armstrong
sanfordarmstr...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 1:34 AM, Frederic Crozat f...@crozat.net wrote:
for nvidia, gnome-shell is not usable with proprietary driver
What do you mean by this? Every time I've tested on nvidia hardware
with the
On Mon, Dec 27, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
What do you mean by this? Every time I've tested on nvidia hardware
with the proprietary driver, shell performance has been totally
usable. It's not lightning fast, but I don't think any hardware
change would fix that.
Le 27 déc. 2010 15:42, Sandy Armstrong sanfordarmstr...@gmail.com a
écrit :
On Sat, Dec 25, 2010 at 1:34 AM, Frederic Crozat f...@crozat.net wrote:
for nvidia, gnome-shell is not usable with proprietary driver
What do you mean by this? Every time I've tested on nvidia hardware
with the
Le 25 déc. 2010 00:16, Johannes Schmid j...@jsschmid.de a écrit :
Hi Dave!
Do you have any figures on what percentage of Linux users will have the
3D capabilities necessary? Just wondering.
Do you have statistics about what hardware people use with Linux? Than
it is easy to find out. But
Hi Jon,
On 12/24/2010 12:32 AM, William Jon McCann wrote:
It is important to note that there is no such classic mode. There
is a fallback mode for when 3D support is not available.
Do you have any figures on what percentage of Linux users will have the
3D capabilities necessary? Just
Excerpts from William Jon McCann's message of vie dic 24 00:32:40 +0100 2010:
Hi Carlos,
Hi,
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Carlos Garcia Campos
carlo...@gnome.org wrote:
Excerpts from Frederic Peters's message of jue dic 23 10:22:40 +0100 2010:
Hi,
Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
I am
On Fri, Dec 24, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Carlos Garcia Campos
carlo...@gnome.org wrote:
Excerpts from William Jon McCann's message of vie dic 24 00:32:40 +0100 2010:
GNOME 3 is a change. Both the default and the fallback modes will be
different from GNOME 2. We can't and shouldn't shy away from that.
Hi Dave!
Do you have any figures on what percentage of Linux users will have the
3D capabilities necessary? Just wondering.
Do you have statistics about what hardware people use with Linux? Than
it is easy to find out. But all newer ( 5 years) Intel, AMD/ATI and
NVidia chips work so that
Hi,
Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
I am confused, what's the story with gnome-panel and gnome-applets in
3.0? Are they in, are they out? If gnome 3 is to support gnome2 compat
mode, both of these components should stay in for some while, right?
Currently, the situation in in jhbuild is very strange:
Excerpts from Frederic Peters's message of jue dic 23 10:22:40 +0100 2010:
Hi,
Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
I am confused, what's the story with gnome-panel and gnome-applets in
3.0? Are they in, are they out? If gnome 3 is to support gnome2 compat
mode, both of these components should stay in
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:54, Carlos Garcia Campos carlo...@gnome.orgwrote:
I disagree. If I run gnome-session with the classic mode I expect to
see exactly what I have right now, with all the applets. The
definition of essential applet is probably different for every user.
I am not a
On Thu, 2010-12-23 at 15:01 -0600, Jason D. Clinton wrote:
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 12:54, Carlos Garcia Campos
carlo...@gnome.org wrote:
I disagree. If I run gnome-session with the classic mode I
expect to
see exactly what I have right now, with all the applets. The
Hi Carlos,
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 1:54 PM, Carlos Garcia Campos
carlo...@gnome.org wrote:
Excerpts from Frederic Peters's message of jue dic 23 10:22:40 +0100 2010:
Hi,
Sergey Udaltsov wrote:
I am confused, what's the story with gnome-panel and gnome-applets in
3.0? Are they in, are they
On Thu, Dec 23, 2010 at 3:12 PM, Juanjo Marin juanjomari...@yahoo.es wrote:
Though I agree that we must planning the future, we also need to give a
migration path for our users. There are big deployments out there, and
sometimes they need _time_ for evaluating the new features, updating
their
Confused as well.
On 14 December 2010 16:49, Sergey Udaltsov sergey.udalt...@gmail.com wrote:
I am confused, what's the story with gnome-panel and gnome-applets in
3.0? Are they in, are they out? If gnome 3 is to support gnome2 compat
mode, both of these components should stay in for some
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