I never said the development teams should use it. I realized technical
decisions can't be made by community voting. But -
1. Sometimes a team is interested in seeing what the community/other
teams think
2. Some decisions are not technical, like you said the marketing team
can find loomio useful
Hi, is there any progress with this?
I there a Gnome team willing to be the pioneer and try loomio, and
report about the experience? I don't belong to any team so I can't take
responsibility personally (but I'll help you, if you decide to give
loomio a try).
Anatoly
On א', 2013-04-14 at 11:36
Hi, is there any progress with this?
I there a Gnome team willing to be the pioneer and try loomio,
and report about the experience? I don't belong to any team so I
can't take responsibility personally (but I'll help you, if you
decide to give
Well the non-coding parts might accept it. The problem with voting is that
it is an emotional choice when it comes to people who are voting and are
not part of development. Which can lead to all kinds of conflicts in
trying to decide how things develop.
If we had voting, we would have had to
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:08:31PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
So you want to have random people suddenly join, be of the decision
and
have equal say? I find that a little bit weird.
As opposed to the method that we have now which is..?
People who are part of the team.
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:06:51PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
If someone posts a proposal on gnome-devel, for example, it would not be
efficient or easy for each user to give their approval: Yeah I love
Here you clearly assume that it will be used for software development.
If you want to
I agree, random people can't have the same influence on votes like the
people actually seriously involved, but like Sri and Marco said, there
are already existing cases in which such a system can be very useful.
Seif offered to try it with the Gnome Music team, but anyone else who
wants to give
I think you're mixing up decisions with doing a study? E.g. you assume
because of such a tool suddenly 'GNOME 3' will work different? (to be
clear: I'm asking, not suggesting)
No, I don't think that GNOME will suddenly become the perfect DE, but
certain decisions, such as
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:06:51PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
If someone posts a proposal on gnome-devel, for example, it would not
be
efficient or easy for each user to give their approval: Yeah I love
Here you clearly assume that it will be used
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 17:24 +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
No, I don't think that GNOME will suddenly become the perfect DE, but
certain decisions, such as the location of the close button on
fullscreen apps, could be improved a lot and polls could be used as
evidence for user testing or
Lets consider a concrete example.
Before Gnome Shell was initially released, I (like many others) didn't like
the lack of a power off option in the system menu (or anywhere on the
desktop). I've been an on and off lurker on IRC for a while. I brought up
the concern a few times perhaps. At one
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 13:10 -0400, Jesse Hutton wrote:
Lets consider a concrete example.
Before Gnome Shell was initially released, I (like many others) didn't like
the lack of a power off option in the system menu (or anywhere on the
desktop). I've been an on and off lurker on IRC for a
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño g...@gnome.org wrote:
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 13:10 -0400, Jesse Hutton wrote:
Lets consider a concrete example.
Before Gnome Shell was initially released, I (like many others) didn't
like
the lack of a power off option in the system
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 14:55 -0400, Jesse Hutton wrote:
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 2:41 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño g...@gnome.org
wrote:
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 13:10 -0400, Jesse Hutton wrote:
Lets consider a concrete example.
Before Gnome Shell was initially
On Wed, Apr 17, 2013 at 05:34:55PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 10:06:51PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
If someone posts a proposal on gnome-devel, for example, it would
not be
efficient or easy for each user to give their approval:
...@yahoo.com
alternative: leslie.satenst...@gmail.com
SENT FROM MY OPEN SOURCE LINUX SYSTEM.
--- On Sun, 4/14/13, Andy Tai a...@atai.org wrote:
From: Andy Tai a...@atai.org
Subject: Re: loomio
To: אנטולי קרסנר tomback...@gmail.com
Cc: gnome desktop devel desktop-devel-list@gnome.org
Date: Sunday
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 05:21:15PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
[0] (Restricted in that users do not know that it exists, or that they
are allowed to participate. And if they do, they may not be notified of
a decision meeting when it occurs.)
I don't get this at all.
This implies that
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 05:21:15PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
[0] (Restricted in that users do not know that it exists, or that they
are allowed to participate. And if they do, they may not be notified of
a
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 01:49:48PM -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 05:21:15PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
[0] (Restricted in that users do not know that it exists, or that they
are allowed
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 01:49:48PM -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM, Olav Vitters o...@vitters.nl
wrote:
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 05:21:15PM +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
[0] (Restricted in that users do not know
So you want to have random people suddenly join, be of the decision and
have equal say? I find that a little bit weird.
As opposed to the method that we have now which is..?
--
Marco Scannadinari ma...@scannadinari.co.uk
___
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 22:08 +0100, Marco Scannadinari wrote:
So you want to have random people suddenly join, be of the decision and
have equal say? I find that a little bit weird.
As opposed to the method that we have now which is..?
(I cannot speak for all teams, as I'm not in all
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 13:49 -0700, Sriram Ramkrishna wrote:
I think this particular tools documents what decision was made and in
what context. That's a little hard to do if you have to scan through
emails at least for hte marketinig team. Of course it implies that we
have some discipline
On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 11:36:54AM +0300, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
What do you think?
How are you involved in this? I get the impression that you're involved
and will use GNOME in your marketing material.
Initial impressions:
- lacks silent thinking ideas
- surveys should not be public during voting
GNOME is a free software project where all the decision making process
should be transparent. Mailing lists, for example, are transparent.
The tool you recommend will go against the spirit of openness and community.
On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 1:36 AM, אנטולי קרסנר tomback...@gmail.com wrote:
I agree, I didn't mean to change the way module maintainers make
specific technical decisions for their modules. But many decisions are
relevant for the whole community, and using such software would allow
people to participate more easily and give them a feeling their voice
counts.
Keeping track
On Mon, 2013-04-15 at 14:49 +0300, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
Keeping track of the process would become much easier than the current
mix of IRC, mailing lists and wiki pages.
So then it would be a mix of IRC, mailing lists, wiki pages, and this
thing.
As ever,
If we all always thought and decided on things the way you suggest, then
nothing would ever change.
It's not a big secret that tools like wikis and mailing lists are very
general-purpose and the reason they're used so widely is that creating
tools for specific tasks is a very difficult task. Even
On Mon, Apr 15, 2013 at 03:33:06PM +0300, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
So I'm not attacking the relevance of existing tools. I'm suggesting a
tool which may be better for some use cases. Maybe it can, maybe it
can't, but don't judge so quickly.
It just seems some basics are missing. What is missing
Hmm I am very uncertain about loomio, however since I am working on
gnome-music with a small team, we could try using loomio for a bit to see
if it in any way improves our workflow.
We could report and blog about the experiecen. However that would
require Anatoly
to set up the whole infrastructure
With pleasure :)
But it depends on the necessary resources. If they supply their own
server on which they create the group account, all I need to do is fill
a form. But I don't have all the details:
https://www.loomio.org/group_requests/new
On ב', 2013-04-15 at 16:31 +0200,
On 14/04/13 09:36, אנטולי קרסנר wrote:
Hello,
Hello,
I found a tool for collaborative decision making and brainstorming
called loomio:
https://www.loomio.org/
Interesting.
It's open for private beta, and I think Gnome, as a community project,
can really benefit from using it.
Currently
GNOME is a free software project where all the decision making
process should be transparent. Mailing lists, for example, are
transparent.
The tool you recommend will go against the spirit of openness
and community.
How? The whole service is open
I looked at this and it seems quite interesting. The one problem I see is
that this would subsume our current mailing list structure. We would have
to bring this in house so that people could see what the decisions are and
why.
Overall, I think it's a good way to take conversations out of IRC
I emailed the company regarding the availability of the source. They
don't have the link on the website, but the code is available.
(from r...@loomio.org)
Loomio is on github: github.com/loomio/loomio
http://github.com/loomio/loomio
It will be great to hear how you get on with a local
On Sun, 2013-04-14 at 20:53 -0400, Hashem Nasarat wrote:
[...]
Sriram, while I agree many problems would be alleviated with more
volunteer time, I've witnessed multiple instances in the past 6 months
where decisions were not made democratically, despite a clear lack of
consensus. Most
On Sun, Apr 14, 2013 at 7:53 PM, Germán Póo-Caamaño g...@gnome.org wrote:
On Sun, 2013-04-14 at 20:53 -0400, Hashem Nasarat wrote:
[...]
Sriram, while I agree many problems would be alleviated with more
volunteer time, I've witnessed multiple instances in the past 6 months
where
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