Where else to discuss it? It should be constructive, yes. But we are all here to learn and grow with Cassandra. The original question is a good one. The direction it took was poor. On Jun 11, 2016 11:54 PM, <mylistt...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Dear All, > > I am user of Cassandra. I am grateful to each of you for providing your > time as committers to the code base for a great product. > > This is what I wanted to suggest - could you gentlemen not create a group > email Id to discuss matters of such importance amongst yourselves. Using > the dev list I am not sure is the best place. I have been reading emails > where insinuations have being made - if a particular company may high jack > the code base etc. > > We are all developers , we love our code. I don't think this is right > forum to bring things out of this proportion , read wash dirty linen. > > Pardon me if you think my opinion or inputs are wrong. > > I am newbie on Cassandra. I use it as an application developer. I don't > have any intention to judge your experiences or thoughts. Just saying this > could be done in a finer way without most if us getting to know about it. > > Regards, > Harmeet > > > > On Jun 12, 2016, at 2:31, Tom Barber <tom.bar...@meteorite.bi> wrote: > > > Looking at that thread, I'm surprised you didn't call Dave out as well, > > that attitude did no one any favours. > > > >> Because lets all face the > >> facts here, no one "likes" writing drivers and documentation, and I have > >> done both for this project. > > > > That's clearly incorrect, I (and I suspect other people) like writing > docs > > because it means people can use your tools in a much easier manner than > > looking through the code or unit tests. > > > > Tooling can be a burden but it doesn't excuse not writing docs, even if > it > > becomes a PMC type rule for committers to commit Docs for new features > like > > they should be committing unit tests. At least it improves what is > shipped > > with the Apache project in question. > > > > Tom > > > > On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 7:21 PM, Chris Mattmann <mattm...@apache.org> > wrote: > > > >> Hi Russell, > >> > >> [CC/board@, board members may want to join the > >> Apache Cassandra lists for specifics and further > >> engagement] > >> > >> Multiple things that need to be addressed below, but TL;DR: > >> > >> 1. I have asked the Apache Cassandra PMC, and its chair, to provide > >> a detailed description on how the project *isn’t* controlled by an > >> external entity in its next monthly board report. The below further > >> re-enforces the control. Further, it re-enforces the vitriol and > >> name calling attitude when questioned and when someone suggests > >> pointing to the Apache documentation and making it better as a first > >> step. I plan on making it very loudly known at our next board meeting > >> that something is awry. CC/board@ ahead of time on that. > >> > >> 2. You don’t seem to understand Apache. This is unfortunate. I > >> went to go look you up and see if you are a PMC member for Apache > >> Cassandra. Funny enough, the main page doesn’t even link to the PMC > >> (I couldn’t find a direct link). This isn’t even correct with respect > >> to Apache branding guidelines here at the ASF. Shane, would you > >> like to comment here? For an FYI to everyone, see: > >> http://www.apache.org/foundation/marks/pmcs.html > >> > >> After a Google Search, I found this page: > >> https://wiki.apache.org/cassandra/Committers > >> > >> That looks way out of date. Luckily there is the project.apache.org > >> ASF page: https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra > >> > >> Which indicates you aren’t a committer or PMC member of the project. > >> This is unfortunate. If you wrote a book for projects I work on, I > >> would have hopefully long before and along the way got involved in > >> the community, and encouraged you to contribute to the *core effort > >> here at the ASF* and took you on the path towards becoming a PMC > >> member in the *Apache project that is the core effort*. > >> > >> In short, I can see why you don’t understand Apache. It’s likely > >> due to the fact that the Apache Cassandra PMC doesn’t seem to get > >> it either. If they did, they would have worked to explain it to > >> you. More on that later. > >> > >> 3. The fact that you think “the companies that I try to [sic] vilify > >> are the *future* of projects like this” isn’t just a statement that > >> indicates you don’t get Apache. That someone in the community (which > >> includes you even though you aren’t a committer or on the PMC) would > >> think the “companies” are the “future” of any ASF project is just > >> way way bad. Like way bad. Off the rails bad. We are *individuals* > >> here, not companies. > >> > >> 4. You state you have wrote drivers and documentation for this > >> project. Yet you aren’t a PMC member or committer at the ASF. Ever > >> scratch your head and wonder why? By itself, again, sometimes there > >> are reasons for this. Taken in context, there is something REALLY > >> wrong here. > >> > >> Now, more specific replies inline below. Jonathan and PMC members > >> for Apache Cassandra. Please take time to explain in your report > >> what’s going on. I’m hopeful with mentorship and guidance and time > >> this can be addressed but right now, not really happy with what > >> I’m seeing. > >> > >> > >> > >> ********** > >> Specific comments > >> > >> On 6/11/16, 9:48 AM, "Russell Bradberry" <rbradbe...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> > >>> I respectfully disagree. "Newbies" should be pointed in the direction > >> that > >>> will ensure the highest possibility of their success with the product. > >>> This is the best decision for the project, regardless of where the > >>> documentation may reside. > >> > >> While I agree with pointing Newbies to the point where > >> there is the best documentation - I don’t agree that place > >> should be outside of the Apache project. > >> > >>> > >>> As one of the authors of an early book on Cassandra, the reason we > wrote > >> it > >>> was because the ASF documentation was abysmal. > >> > >> What did you do to try and counteract this? Did you attempt to submit > >> documentation patches and/or to submit documentation that would address > >> that? > >> > >>> Now I am happy to say that > >>> the book I wrote is obsolete, not just because it was written against > an > >>> early version of Cassandra, but because the external documentation is > so > >>> thorough the need for a book to be written in no longer present. > >> > >> I had no problem with your statement until you put “external” before the > >> word “documentation”. > >> > >>> > >>> If the ASF and the PMC want to promote internal documentation, then a > >>> serious amount of time and effort needs to be put into the > documentation. > >>> This goes for every project in the ASF. The current state of > documentation > >>> in any of the Apache projects sub-standard at best. > >> > >> This, unfortunately, is a strawman. I tell you that ASF projects should > >> have > >> the documentation that is required to run and should be the *first* > place > >> you point users to for your documentation. You respond, well the ASF > >> projects > >> have crappy documentation as a whole. I totally disagree with that. > Here’s > >> some examples: Tika, Nutch, Solr/Lucene, Subversion, HTTPD, Spark, > Hadoop, > >> Maven, I could easily go on. > >> > >> A project that has been around as long as *Apache* (note I keep putting > >> *Apache* in front of the project name too - something I don’t see all > too > >> often so far and something you should get used to) Cassandra should know > >> better. This isn’t a new Incubator project. > >> > >>> > >>> You make mention, several times, of the community, and in this case the > >>> community has decided that the best source of documentation is the one > >> that > >>> has had a company put financial investment into it. You can't expect a > >>> community of unpaid volunteers to be able to coordinate and contribute > >>> something of that high quality. > >> > >> Yes, I can. And yes, we do. That’s what we do at the ASF. It’s worked > >> for many, many years, before, Apache Cassandra. It will work long after > >> it too. > >> > >>> > >>> Full disclosure, I am *not* on the PMC, nor am I an employee of > DataStax > >> or > >>> any other company that provides support for an open source project. I > am a > >>> member of the community that sees the highest probability of success of > >>> this project being that the PMC supports the development of the core > >>> product while the ancillary pieces like documentation and drivers get > >>> supported by those who are paid to support it. Because lets all face > the > >>> facts here, no one "likes" writing drivers and documentation, and I > have > >>> done both for this project. > >> > >> Plenty of people are paid to support OSS software, even OSS software at > the > >> ASF. But we must be diligent to wear our $dayjob hats, in contrast to > the > >> ASF hats, and to do what’s right for the effort at Apache, since in > cases > >> such as this, it is the *Apache* project, its community, and its > license, > >> that are friendly to downstream users (even companies). > >> > >>> > >>> Suffice it to say, that in my opinion, these "companies" that you seem > to > >>> be trying so hard to vilify are the future of projects like this. They > >> fill > >>> the gap that the ASF leaves with its volunteer based model. > >>> > >>> Also, to address your thinly veiled and pointed comments as of late. > It > >>> seems you have already made up your mind about DataStax and are > continuing > >>> in an effort to prove your point. Doing this in a public manner is > toxic > >>> for the community and will do nothing more than to divide it and risk > >>> failure of the project. I suggest you confer with the PMC and the > company > >>> *privately* to determine what is best for the project and ultimately > the > >>> community. > >> > >> This statement above, sadly, indicates how broken the governance of > >> this project is. 99% of all discussion in the ASF is public. The only > >> discussion in private is that adding new PMC members and/or committers. > >> Would have been nice for someone long long long before me, to tell you > >> that. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Chris > >> > >>> > >>> Best, > >>> -Russell Bradberry > >>> > >>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 12:16 PM, Mattmann, Chris A (3980) < > >>> chris.a.mattm...@jpl.nasa.gov> wrote: > >>> > >>>> Hi Everyone, > >>>> > >>>> While this may be a current great source of documentation on > >>>> Cassandra, and while it exists externally, the PMC should be > >>>> be promoting (and hopefully ensuring) that the source of documentation > >>>> for Apache Cassandra is here at the ASF. > >>>> > >>>> I’m happy to be corrected that that is the case, and/or that > >>>> I’ve missed something, but the first reply to questions like > >>>> this from newbies shouldn’t be to point to an external website. > >>>> > >>>> Cheers, > >>>> Chris > >>>> > >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>>> Chris Mattmann, Ph.D. > >>>> Chief Architect > >>>> Instrument Software and Science Data Systems Section (398) > >>>> NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, CA 91109 USA > >>>> Office: 168-519, Mailstop: 168-527 > >>>> Email: chris.a.mattm...@nasa.gov > >>>> WWW: http://sunset.usc.edu/~mattmann/ > >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>>> Director, Information Retrieval and Data Science Group (IRDS) > >>>> Adjunct Associate Professor, Computer Science Department > >>>> University of Southern California, Los Angeles, CA 90089 USA > >>>> WWW: http://irds.usc.edu/ > >>>> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> On 6/11/16, 8:54 AM, "Bhuvan Rawal" <bhu1ra...@gmail.com> wrote: > >>>> > >>>>> Hi Deepak, > >>>>> > >>>>> You can try Datastax Docs, they are most extensive and updated > >>>>> documentation available. > >>>>> As Cassandra is a fast developing technology I wonder if there is a > >> Book > >>>> in > >>>>> the market which covers latest features like Materialized Views/ SASI > >>>> Index > >>>>> or new SSTable Format. I believe the best starting point would be the > >>>>> Academy Tutorials and further Planet Cassandra - A week in Cassandra > >>>> series > >>>>> provides good overview of blogs and developments by Cassandra > >> Evangelists. > >>>>> It also provides link of top blogs which help understand internal > >> working > >>>>> of the Database. > >>>>> > >>>>> However if you still feel the need, you may refer to books, here are > >> some > >>>>> that I know of - > >>>>> Beginning Apache Cassandra Development - Vivek Mishra - 2014 - Link > >>>>> < > >>>> > >> > https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Apache-Cassandra-Development-Mishra/dp/1484201434 > >>>>> > >>>>> Cassandra Data Modeling and Analysis - 2014 C.Y. Kan - Link > >>>>> < > >>>> > >> > https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Data-Modeling-Analysis-C-Y/dp/1783988886/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659906&sr=1-1&keywords=cassandra+data+modeling+and+analysis > >>>>> > >>>>> Mastering Apache Cassandra - Second Edition - March 26 2015 - Link > >>>>> < > >>>> > >> > https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1784392618/ref=pd_lpo_sbs_dp_ss_3?pf_rd_p=1944687622&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=1484201434&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=YVM1QBXHKAFK18J1XBAC > >>>>> > >>>>> Cassandra Design Patterns - 2015 - Link > >>>>> < > >>>> > >> > https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Design-Patterns-Rajanarayanan-Thottuvaikkatumana/dp/178528570X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659937&sr=1-1&keywords=cassandra+design+patterns > >>>>> > >>>>> Cassandra High Availability - 2014 - Link > >>>>> < > >>>> > >> > https://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-High-Availability-Robbie-Strickland/dp/1783989122/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659975&sr=1-1&keywords=cassandra+high+availability > >>>>> > >>>>> Learning Apache Cassandra - Manage Fault Tolerant and Scalable > >> Real-Time > >>>>> Data - 2015 - Link > >>>>> < > >>>> > >> > https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Apache-Cassandra-Tolerant-Real-Time/dp/1783989203/ref=sr_1_3?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1465659975&sr=1-3&keywords=cassandra+high+availability > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> Best Regards, > >>>>> Bhuvan > >>>>> Datastax Certified Architect > >>>>> > >>>>> On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 8:28 PM, Deepak Goel <deic...@gmail.com> > >> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> Hey > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Namaskara~Nalama~Guten Tag~Bonjour > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I am a newbie. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Which would be the best book for a newbie to learn Cassandra? > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Thank You > >>>>>> Deepak > >>>>>> -- > >>>>>> Keigu > >>>>>> > >>>>>> Deepak > >>>>>> 73500 12833 > >>>>>> www.simtree.net, dee...@simtree.net > >>>>>> deic...@gmail.com > >>>>>> > >>>>>> LinkedIn: www.linkedin.com/in/deicool > >>>>>> Skype: thumsupdeicool > >>>>>> Google talk: deicool > >>>>>> Blog: http://loveandfearless.wordpress.com > >>>>>> Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/deicool > >>>>>> > >>>>>> "Contribute to the world, environment and more : > >>>>>> http://www.gridrepublic.org > >>>>>> " > >>>>>> > >>>> > >> > >> >
