date:20210126

Re: [DISCUSS] Releases after 4.0

2021-01-26 Thread Benedict Elliott Smith

My preference is for a simple annual major release cadence, with minors as 
necessary. This is simple for the user community and developer community: 
support = x versions = x years.

I'd like to pair this with stricter merge criteria, so that we maintain a 
~shippable trunk, and we cut a release at ~the same time every year, whatever 
features are merged. We might have to get happy with reverting commits that 
break things.

I think faster cadences impose too much burden on the developer community for 
maintenance and the user community for both upgrades and making sense of what's 
going on. I think slower cadences collapse, as the release window begins to 
collect too many hopes and dreams.

My hope is that we get to a point where snapshots of trunk are safe to run, and 
that major contributors are ahead of the release window for internal 
consumption, rather than behind - this might also alleviate pressure for 
hitting release windows with features.




On 26/01/2021, 13:56, "Benjamin Lerer"  wrote:

 Hi everybody

It seems that there is a need to discuss how we will deal with releases
after 4.0
We are now relatively close from the 4.0 RC release so it make sense to me
to start discussing that subject especially as it has some impact on some
things like dropping support for python 2

The main questions are in my opinion:
1) What release cadence do we want to use for major/minor versions?
2) How do we plan to ensure the quality of the releases?

It might make sense to try a release cadence and see how it works out in
practice revisiting our decision if we feel the need for it.

One important thing to discuss with the cadence is the amount of time we
want to support the releases. 2.2 has been supported for more than 5 years,
we might not be able to support releases for a similar time frame if we
release a version every 6 months for example.
To be sure that we are all on the same page regarding what minor and major
versions are and their naming: 4.1 would be a minor version (improvements
and features that don't break compatibility) and 5.0 would be a major
version (compatibility breakages)



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[DISCUSS] Releases after 4.0

2021-01-26 Thread Benjamin Lerer

 Hi everybody

It seems that there is a need to discuss how we will deal with releases
after 4.0
We are now relatively close from the 4.0 RC release so it make sense to me
to start discussing that subject especially as it has some impact on some
things like dropping support for python 2

The main questions are in my opinion:
1) What release cadence do we want to use for major/minor versions?
2) How do we plan to ensure the quality of the releases?

It might make sense to try a release cadence and see how it works out in
practice revisiting our decision if we feel the need for it.

One important thing to discuss with the cadence is the amount of time we
want to support the releases. 2.2 has been supported for more than 5 years,
we might not be able to support releases for a similar time frame if we
release a version every 6 months for example.
To be sure that we are all on the same page regarding what minor and major
versions are and their naming: 4.1 would be a minor version (improvements
and features that don't break compatibility) and 5.0 would be a major
version (compatibility breakages)

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

2021-01-26 Thread Benjamin Lerer

While discussing with Mick in an external discussion, he raised the fact
that the project approach has always been to deprecate features/support in
one major version and remove them in the following one.
Due to the fact that 4.0 took so long, we did not respect that approach for
the Windows scripts and it might make sense to do the same for python 2 as
it is EOL but we should also consider that it might not be the best way of
doing things.

A big part of the problem here is caused by the fact that we do not have
any idea of when the next major release will be. It might be good to
discuss to have more visibility  on this point before deciding about our
approach for python 2.
I will fire a thread to discuss the plan for the future major release.

On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 11:02 AM Benjamin Lerer 
wrote:

> According to some study I found here
> 
> it seems that not all the organizations are ready regarding python 3. I am
> not a python expert. Does anybody know what are the
> practicalities/hurdles that users can face when upgrading and what is the
> expected cost of keeping support for 2.7 until the next major?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:39 AM Benjamin Lerer <
> benjamin.le...@datastax.com> wrote:
>
>> We have a check in CQLSH that prevents it to start if the python version
>> is lower than python 2.7. I am fine dropping support for python 2 as long
>> as we make it explicits in the NEWS.txt and that we add a warning in CQLSH
>> to notify python 2 users that it is not supported anymore and might not
>> work properly.
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
>> sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
>>> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>>>
>>> > +1 nb.
>>> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
>>> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
>>> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x
>>> or
>>> > 5.0?
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
>>> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
>>> > >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
>>> > > +1
>>> > >
>>> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
>>> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
>>> for
>>> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
>>> development
>>> > > and
>>> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
>>> Python
>>> > 2.
>>> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't
>>> seen a
>>> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python
>>> 2, so
>>> > > I'm
>>> > > > raising one here.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support
>>> at
>>> > this
>>> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to
>>> do
>>> > in
>>> > > a
>>> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need
>>> to
>>> > wait
>>> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
>>> like
>>> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
>>> don't
>>> > > know
>>> > > > when that will be.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should
>>> not be
>>> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that
>>> has not
>>> > > had
>>> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
>>> would
>>> > > do
>>> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
>>> > advertise
>>> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit
>>> by
>>> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
>>> > concerned
>>> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL
>>> runtime
>>> > > [3].
>>> > > >
>>> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > --
>>> > > > Adam Holmberg
>>> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
>>> > > > w. www.datastax.com
>>> > > >
>>> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
>>> > > > [2]
>>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=Jad7nE1Oab1mebx31r7AOfSsa0by8th6tCxpykmmOBA=crUhrXldycHqWKNgLahLKHtKL6pfe5rjVY5WXeujMCc=kU1jF8FeM_Jy4RoyW51BF9BMZV8gnSfQIG_GAup5PiQ=
>>> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
>>> > > >
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

2021-01-26 Thread Benjamin Lerer

According to some study I found here

it seems that not all the organizations are ready regarding python 3. I am
not a python expert. Does anybody know what are the practicalities/hurdles
that users can face when upgrading and what is the expected cost of keeping
support for 2.7 until the next major?



On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 10:39 AM Benjamin Lerer 
wrote:

> We have a check in CQLSH that prevents it to start if the python version
> is lower than python 2.7. I am fine dropping support for python 2 as long
> as we make it explicits in the NEWS.txt and that we add a warning in CQLSH
> to notify python 2 users that it is not supported anymore and might not
> work properly.
>
> +1
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
> sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
>> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>>
>> > +1 nb.
>> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
>> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
>> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x
>> or
>> > 5.0?
>> >
>> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
>> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
>> > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
>> > > +1
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
>> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
>> for
>> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
>> development
>> > > and
>> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
>> Python
>> > 2.
>> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen
>> a
>> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python
>> 2, so
>> > > I'm
>> > > > raising one here.
>> > > >
>> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at
>> > this
>> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to
>> do
>> > in
>> > > a
>> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to
>> > wait
>> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
>> like
>> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
>> don't
>> > > know
>> > > > when that will be.
>> > > >
>> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should
>> not be
>> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has
>> not
>> > > had
>> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
>> would
>> > > do
>> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
>> > advertise
>> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit
>> by
>> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
>> > concerned
>> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL
>> runtime
>> > > [3].
>> > > >
>> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
>> > > >
>> > > > --
>> > > > Adam Holmberg
>> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
>> > > > w. www.datastax.com
>> > > >
>> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
>> > > > [2]
>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=Jad7nE1Oab1mebx31r7AOfSsa0by8th6tCxpykmmOBA=crUhrXldycHqWKNgLahLKHtKL6pfe5rjVY5WXeujMCc=kU1jF8FeM_Jy4RoyW51BF9BMZV8gnSfQIG_GAup5PiQ=
>> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
>> > > >
>> > >
>> >
>>
>

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

2021-01-26 Thread Benjamin Lerer

We have a check in CQLSH that prevents it to start if the python version is
lower than python 2.7. I am fine dropping support for python 2 as long as
we make it explicits in the NEWS.txt and that we add a warning in CQLSH to
notify python 2 users that it is not supported anymore and might not work
properly.

+1




On Tue, Jan 26, 2021 at 8:46 AM Sumanth Pasupuleti <
sumanth.pasupuleti...@gmail.com> wrote:

> +1 (nb) for dropping support for python2; I agree 4.0 major release is a
> good time to do this, given python2 is already EOL.
>
> On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 2:00 PM Yifan Cai  wrote:
>
> > +1 nb.
> > We probably also want to set a milestone to get rid of the python2
> > compatible code completely, if we are going in the direction that drops
> > python2 support in 4.0 and retains the python2 compatible code. In 4.x or
> > 5.0?
> >
> > On Mon, Jan 25, 2021 at 9:24 AM Ekaterina Dimitrova <
> e.dimitr...@gmail.com
> > >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I support the idea,  we are not removing python2-compatible code
> > > +1
> > >
> > > On Fri, 22 Jan 2021 at 15:14, Adam Holmberg <
> adam.holmb...@datastax.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > As you may recall, CASSANDRA-10190 [1] introduced Python 3 support
> for
> > > > cqlsh. This change will be landing in 4.0. In the course of
> development
> > > and
> > > > discussion spanning years, it was decided to retain support for
> Python
> > 2.
> > > > In the meantime, Python 2 sunsetted (a year ago [2]). I hadn't seen a
> > > > discussion about whether we intend to carry on support for Python 2,
> so
> > > I'm
> > > > raising one here.
> > > >
> > > > 4.0 is a major release and we have an opportunity to drop support at
> > this
> > > > milestone. It has been mentioned that it will not be acceptable to do
> > in
> > > a
> > > > minor or patch release, so if it's not done for 4.0, we will need to
> > wait
> > > > for the next major. I do understand that many in the project would
> like
> > > > majors on a more frequent interval post-4.0, but at this time we
> don't
> > > know
> > > > when that will be.
> > > >
> > > > I advocate for dropping support ASAP. I expect that users should not
> be
> > > > inconvenienced by this -- I am not aware of a major distro that has
> not
> > > had
> > > > python3 for years. Dropping python2 support does not mean that we
> would
> > > do
> > > > work to rip out python2-compatible code, just that we wouldn't
> > advertise
> > > > support and any package requirements would be adjusted. We benefit by
> > > > removing the need to test multiple runtimes, and we wouldn't be
> > concerned
> > > > with fixing python2-specific issues that may arise on the EOL runtime
> > > [3].
> > > >
> > > > I look forward to the discussion.
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Adam Holmberg
> > > > e. adam.holmb...@datastax.com
> > > > w. www.datastax.com
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-10190
> > > > [2]
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.python.org_doc_sunset-2Dpython-2D2_=DwIBaQ=adz96Xi0w1RHqtPMowiL2g=Jad7nE1Oab1mebx31r7AOfSsa0by8th6tCxpykmmOBA=crUhrXldycHqWKNgLahLKHtKL6pfe5rjVY5WXeujMCc=kU1jF8FeM_Jy4RoyW51BF9BMZV8gnSfQIG_GAup5PiQ=
> > > > [3] https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/CASSANDRA-16400
> > > >
> > >
> >
>

Re: [DISCUSS] Releases after 4.0

[DISCUSS] Releases after 4.0

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

Re: [DISCUSS] When to stop supporting Python 2

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