Re: New 'cassandra-builds' git repo, or in-tree?

[Jeffrey Jirsa]

+1 to new repo.


On 11/11/16, 11:55 AM, "Michael Shuler"  wrote:

>We're working on configuring new donated servers for Apache Cassandra
>testing in the ASF Jenkins infrastructure. I have a preference to
>request INFRA set up a new git repository specifically for
>build/test_run/jenkins_template scripts, separate from the main Apache
>Cassandra source, but I'm wondering how others feel about these just
>being in-tree. If you have an opinion one way or the other, I'm
>interested.
>
>I think a separate git repo would be preferable since the contents could
>be used for any version, regardless of the checked out C* branch or sha,
>it won't require backporting, and it will be tiny. It may also allow a
>lower barrier for contributors interested in helping with specifically
>build/test infrastructure.
>
>Thanks!
>Michael

Re: DataStax role in Cassandra and the ASF

[Jeffrey Jirsa]

Everything you said is accurate, and I don¹t think anyone¹s debating that.
What I¹m hoping to convey is the method of communication is such that a
SIGNIFICANT number of people interpret the nature of the communication as
unnecessarily antagonistic. You seem to think it¹s necessary, but the
reaction of the community clearly says otherwise.

A person can be 100% right and still come across as a jerk, and the CoC
instructs people to avoid doing so, because it¹s damaging to the
community. 

If you ask 100 random people who are neither Cassandra users/developers
nor ASF members about whether or not the communication from the ASF board
members is in this thread is professional, empathetic, friendly, and
likely to build a community, I suspect you¹d find a significant number
that would tell you the communication is none of those things. And THAT is
a problem, too (and it¹s NOT on the same level as mark issues, but if the
question is ³why did Datastax step back from the Apache Cassandra
project², it certainly helps explain why a company might want to do that).

Let¹s build a community, Jim.



On 11/6/16, 12:00 PM, "Jim Jagielski"  wrote:

>Some clarification.
>
>Basically, there had been issues w/ DataStax and the PMC for a long,
>long time. It came somewhat to a head in Aug when there was
>a PR/Email about the "Cassandra Summit" with nary a mention
>of Apache at all. None.
>
>This was after months and months in trying to get DataStax to
>honor our marks. It was this final culmination which which
>resulted in a board member saying "makes me want to jettison".
>At which Jonathan Ellis expressed confusion on what the problem
>was and asking about the context, oblivious to the concern. Someone
>else noted that both the PMC and Cassandra had been "lectured" on
>trademark violations before and said that "one would assume that
>someone learned along the way." Someone then wondered whether
>these recurring issues where due to some fault in the PMC or
>just the normal, expect churn of their being a brand. He
>further stated: "I don't see how we can make it the responsibility
>of the PMC to catch these things". It was then noted that the
>CTO of DataStax is the PMC Chair, as well as co-founder. There
>was then further discussions and "education" on mark guidelines,
>again, with Jake and Aleksey. Aleksey, at least, admitted that
>"If your only success criteria is how well trademark policing is
>performed, then sure, we all failed..."
>
>More discussion.
>
>Around this time, one board member referred to below most certainly
>did characterize the "hammer-time" phrase as "premature and
>inflammatory". Others did not. To support that position I will add
>some cut/paste quotes from another director:
>
>  o Overall, there are a handful of issues here but they look to be easily
>fixable and - with a little education - preventable in the future.
>  o Given the numbers and seniority of DataStax employees involved with
>Apache Cassandra it is disappointing that these errors are being made
>but people make mistakes
>  o The lack of proactive policing of trademarks by the Cassandra
>PMC is what concerns me
>  o Given the history, I do think the board needs to take some form of
>action. It has been suggested that the board remove all DataStax
>employees from the PMC. I agree things are heading in that direction
>but
>I don't think we are there yet.
>
>It was after that that someone mentioned that they were on 3 PMC
>and never saw any mark issues with any PMCs other than
>Cassandra (this was a not a director speaking). That is when I
>replied w/ the "I've seen such issues..." response.
>
>Some take-aways:
>
> o Mark compliance issues have been ongoing for a long, long
>   time.
> o The PMC and its chair had been involved in these concerns
>   for a long, long time.
>
>Once all this was done, and this particular issue resolved. The final
>few Emails on the thread close it off with:
>
>  o Nobody has said commit privs should be removed. Some have discussed
>the potential of removing PMC responsibilities
>  o I would like to see some positive action from the Apache Cassandra
>PMC that they are working on managing this problem.
>  o We all seem to agree that the responsibility for enforcement falls
>first to the PMC, then on VP Branding, and then on the President.
>
>That is the saga of hammers.
>
>> On Nov 6, 2016, at 12:57 PM, Jeff Jirsa  wrote:
>> 
>> Now that I have clarity on what can and can't be relayed to the
>>community / dev@, I'm going to reply to this email, and then I suspect
>>I'm done for today, because I'd rather watch football than reply to this
>>anymore.
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Nov 5, 2016 at 6:30 AM, Mark Struberg
>> wrote:
>> Having a bit insight how the board operates (being PMC-chair for 2
>>other TLPs) I can ensure you that the board did handle this very cleanly!
>> 
>> 
>> I'm going to disagree with this, in a way I hope lets 

Re: Moderation

[Jeffrey Jirsa]

PMC member is a committer by default (in the past, we’ve had difficulty
electing a member to the PMC without giving them commit access, so
electing a member to the PMC without granting them commit access is at the
very least nontrivial)

The process is the same for all top level projects - the PMC itself
nominates and elects new members. The current PMC is listed here:
https://projects.apache.org/committee.html?cassandra , if you’re curious
about who can nominate at this time.

Because it’s driven by nominations at the PMC level, the process is the
same, but the actual qualities that lead to a nomination likely vary
project to project. Ed mentioned that in Hive, they’ve had members on the
PMC that were primarily contributors to docs or had a single meaningful
change to the build system. That’s a project-by-project decision, but
generally, a diverse PMC helps ensure diversity in the community and helps
drive outside contributions, so diversity is encouraged.

Looking at the roster, most of the current PMC members were
nominated/elected because they’re active committers with deep internal
knowledge and a history of contributing, some are nominated/elected
because they’re active within the ASF and help us guide the project (I
like to imagine I was nominated in part due to past contributions, but
also my familiarity with the greater non-Datastax Cassandra community).



On 11/6/16, 9:22 AM, "Jonathan Haddad"  wrote:

>I took a look at https://www.apache.org/dev/pmc.html, and it doesn't seem
>to give any guidelines on who should be on the PMC.  My assumption has
>always been the most active committers become PMC members, but it sounds
>like that's not the case on other projects.  Is the process to be added to
>the PMC supposed to be the same everywhere, or is it up to the project?
>Can you be on the PMC but not have commit access?
>
>On Sun, Nov 6, 2016 at 5:04 AM Chris Mattmann  wrote:
>
>> Sorry one typo below:
>>
>> Where I said:
>>
>> “The Cassandra MVP comment was also not a diss on you as much as it was
>>me
>> saying – ideally – I would hope that
>> the Apache Cassandra MVP people promote the concept of their community
>> leaders becoming “ASF members”,
>> and that Cassandra MVPs are great – but secondary – to the
>> responsibilities of the PMC to move towards ensuring
>> its community understands the Apache Way.”
>>
>> I meant to say:
>>
>> “The Cassandra MVP comment was also not a diss on you as much as it was
>>me
>> saying – ideally – I would hope that
>> the Apache Cassandra *PMC* people promote the concept of their community
>> leaders becoming “ASF members”,
>> and that Cassandra MVPs are great – but secondary – to the
>> responsibilities of the PMC to move towards ensuring
>> its community understands the Apache Way.”
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Chris
>>
>>
>> On 11/6/16, 6:53 AM, "Chris Mattmann"  wrote:
>>
>> For the record, your breakdown of the email trying to decipher what
>>I
>> meant is not
>> correct. It’s not your fault, but email doesn’t convey tone, nor do
>> you know what I am
>> thinking or what I was trying to say. In fact, I was actually saying
>> the PMC wasn’t doing its job,
>> because (as I stated to you months ago), you (and many other
>>community
>> members of
>> Cassandra) *should* have a binding vote. It wasn’t discrediting to
>>you
>> to point out that
>> you don’t have the PMC or committer credentials; it was an example
>> trying to point out
>> that you *should* have them. And that you clearly care about the
>> project as I believe you
>> have developed a book on the subject of Apache Cassandra a while
>>back
>> IIRC which in Tika,
>> Nutch, OODT, and a number of other projects would have earned you
>>the
>> ability to have a
>> direct say in those Apache projects. And a lot of others.
>>
>> It’s these systematic fracturing of the community under the guise
>>of a
>> single vendor who
>> has stated that they care about Cassandra (note the omission of
>> Apache), but by demonstration
>> has shown they either don’t understand, or don’t care about the
>>Apache
>> part of the equation.
>> That’s what caused me to become frustrated when the following
>>sequence
>> of events
>> happened:
>>
>> 1. After the Board meeting Mark Thomas one of our Directors took
>>point
>> on engaging
>> the Apache Cassandra PMC with some of the concerns brought up over
>>the
>> past 6
>> months and the role I was filling there became a back seat for me.
>> 2. I saw over the past few days on a Twitter feed retweeted by an
>>ASF
>> member that
>> Kelly Sommers (whom I have never met in person and do not know
>> previously) was asking
>> questions and stating negative things about the ASF that I believed
>> could be much better
>> understood by bringing them here to the ASF mailing lists for Apache
>> Cassandra. I suggested
>> on Twitter that she 

Re: Thanks for all the fish.

[Jeffrey Jirsa]

Could not agree more - Jonathan, Thanks for all you¹ve done!



On 8/19/16, 12:20 PM, "Michael Kjellman" 
wrote:

>Just wanted to say thank you publicly to Jonathan Ellis for his tireless
>work making this community and software what it is. He's always been
>level headed and I certainly wouldn't be where I am without his
>leadership.
>
>So, Jonathan, thanks for all the fish.
>
>best,
>kjellman