Podling Report Reminder - June 2017

[johndament]

Dear podling,

This email was sent by an automated system on behalf of the Apache
Incubator PMC. It is an initial reminder to give you plenty of time to
prepare your quarterly board report.

The board meeting is scheduled for Wed, 21 June 2017, 10:30 am PDT.
The report for your podling will form a part of the Incubator PMC
report. The Incubator PMC requires your report to be submitted 2 weeks
before the board meeting, to allow sufficient time for review and
submission (Wed, June 07).

Please submit your report with sufficient time to allow the Incubator
PMC, and subsequently board members to review and digest. Again, the
very latest you should submit your report is 2 weeks prior to the board
meeting.

Thanks,

The Apache Incubator PMC

Submitting your Report

--

Your report should contain the following:

*   Your project name
*   A brief description of your project, which assumes no knowledge of
the project or necessarily of its field
*   A list of the three most important issues to address in the move
towards graduation.
*   Any issues that the Incubator PMC or ASF Board might wish/need to be
aware of
*   How has the community developed since the last report
*   How has the project developed since the last report.
*   How does the podling rate their own maturity.

This should be appended to the Incubator Wiki page at:

https://wiki.apache.org/incubator/June2017

Note: This is manually populated. You may need to wait a little before
this page is created from a template.

Mentors
---

Mentors should review reports for their project(s) and sign them off on
the Incubator wiki page. Signing off reports shows that you are
following the project - projects that are not signed may raise alarms
for the Incubator PMC.

Incubator PMC

Fwd: Is Apache Myriad dead?

[Swapnil Daingade]

I think I ended up replying only to Ted last night.

-- Forwarded message --
From: Swapnil Daingade 
Date: Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 1:07 AM
Subject: Re: Is Apache Myriad dead?
To: Ted Dunning 


Please see inline

On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 11:28 PM, Ted Dunning  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Swapnil Daingade <
> swapnil.daing...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> The problem is that there is essentially no real community that is
>> happening.
>>
>> retiring doesn't help that
>>
>
> The core problem here is lack of a viable PMC. A PMC has to have 3 active
> members at any given point. Typically this requires about 8 live members.
> Myriad is wildly short of that and thus will have serious problems doing
> any releases.
>

Swapnil: I don't think the existing committers are any less passionate
about Myriad that they were earlier. The real question for me is what
features do we work on next. Will said he had ideas to propose. We would
all like to hear his (or anyone else’s) ideas than this talk of retiring. I
don't think it will be difficult to regroup.


>
>
>>
>> >> None of the engineers previously working on this will be working on
>> this now. And that sort of situation isn't going to change.
>>
>> Events at MapR contributed to this situation. MapR scaled back its
>> involvement in Myriad and all its committers left.
>>
>
> Well, that is one way to look at it.
>
> On the other hand, if you actually were involved in the situations, you
> would know that none of the committers left because they didn't get to work
> on Myriad as part of their day jobs, nor did any of them feel enough
> attachment to work after hours (as I do on my projects), nor did any of
> them continue with the project after leaving for a new startup.
>

Swapnil: I worked for MapR. I am a committer and I left after MapR shuffled
resources away from Myriad.
I am not sure how you are making these conclusions.

"nor did any of them feel enough attachment to work after hours (as I do on
my projects), nor did any of them continue with the project after leaving
for a new startup"

"None of the engineers previously working on this will be working on this
now. And that sort of situation isn't going to change"


>
>> MapR is of course free to take its own decisions. But it sounds like
>> there is interest in working on Myriad, just not under the ASF umbrella.
>> I feel without ASF, one company will have too much control on Myriad.
>>
>
> The ASF is moving to retire Myriad because it can't make the cut as a
> viable project. No company will have control over the Apache version of the
> project at that point because the project is nothing to control.
>
> Swapnil: I am sorry but its confusing to me weather you are speaking on
behalf of MapR or ASF.


> The desire to try to reboot the project outside of Apache has almost
> everything to do with the fact that Apache processes and the lack of active
> contributors means that nothing can happen. It isn't an end run around
> Apache constraints for the purpose of control, it is an attempt to keep the
> project alive at all.
>
>
Swapnil: You are trying to reboot a project that hasn't been shutdown yet.
Why not contribute now, as part of Apache?
Why insist on retiring. You are telling me that somewhere inside MapR (or
elsewhere) there are people who are super excited about working on Myriad
and somehow being part of ASF is hindering them from contributing.

I want to know who these people are? If they are so passionate about
Myriad, why haven't they engaged with the community already and made any
contributions? Its a little hard for me to believe that retiring from ASF
will automagically fix everything and we will have a thriving community.

If we has problems with the Apache overhead, can we discuss this in a
different thread separate from the retiring discussion.

I feel our community, however small, has rewarded committerships based on
meritocracy. Anyone is free to come, contribute and gain influence. But
lets first start with the contributions.



>
>> Ted, you yourself warned us against this
>> http://www.zdnet.com/article/hadoop-veteran-ted-dunning-when
>> -open-source-is-anything-but-open/
>>
>
> Read the article. I warned about projects like Ambari. One company has all
> of the PMC.
>
> At this point, the situation with Myriad is almost the opposite.
>

Swapnil: yes, the situation is not like the closed open source projects
that you talked about and I would like to keep it that way. Do you think
the situation will remain the same if the code is moved under
github.com/mapr. Wouldn't MapR have control to decide who commits and who
doesn't?


>
>
>>
>> >>That means that it will always be a distraction to get committers
>> qualified as PMC so that they can approve releases and it will never really
>> be possible to exit from incubation.
>>
>> I suggest we start with the contributions first.
>>
>
> Can you name the 

Re: Is Apache Myriad dead?

[Adam Bordelon]

I can vet and vote too, but I don't have a lot of time these days to run a
release myself.

On Wed, Jun 7, 2017 at 4:33 AM, Darin Johnson 
wrote:

> Can you name the 3-5 active PMC members who will vet the next release?
>
> I'm willing to vet next release and contribute additional work we did to
> Myriad but only if I get a solid commitment from others.  Otherwise I'm
> happy to retire and let mapr host their fork.
>
> On Jun 6, 2017 2:29 AM, "Ted Dunning"  wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Swapnil Daingade <
> > swapnil.daing...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> >> The problem is that there is essentially no real community that is
> >> happening.
> >>
> >> retiring doesn't help that
> >>
> >
> > The core problem here is lack of a viable PMC. A PMC has to have 3 active
> > members at any given point. Typically this requires about 8 live members.
> > Myriad is wildly short of that and thus will have serious problems doing
> > any releases.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >> None of the engineers previously working on this will be working on
> >> this now. And that sort of situation isn't going to change.
> >>
> >> Events at MapR contributed to this situation. MapR scaled back its
> >> involvement in Myriad and all its committers left.
> >>
> >
> > Well, that is one way to look at it.
> >
> > On the other hand, if you actually were involved in the situations, you
> > would know that none of the committers left because they didn't get to
> work
> > on Myriad as part of their day jobs, nor did any of them feel enough
> > attachment to work after hours (as I do on my projects), nor did any of
> > them continue with the project after leaving for a new startup.
> >
> >
> >> MapR is of course free to take its own decisions. But it sounds like
> >> there is interest in working on Myriad, just not under the ASF umbrella.
> >> I feel without ASF, one company will have too much control on Myriad.
> >>
> >
> > The ASF is moving to retire Myriad because it can't make the cut as a
> > viable project. No company will have control over the Apache version of
> the
> > project at that point because the project is nothing to control.
> >
> > The desire to try to reboot the project outside of Apache has almost
> > everything to do with the fact that Apache processes and the lack of
> active
> > contributors means that nothing can happen. It isn't an end run around
> > Apache constraints for the purpose of control, it is an attempt to keep
> the
> > project alive at all.
> >
> >
> >> Ted, you yourself warned us against this
> >> http://www.zdnet.com/article/hadoop-veteran-ted-dunning-when
> >> -open-source-is-anything-but-open/
> >>
> >
> > Read the article. I warned about projects like Ambari. One company has
> all
> > of the PMC.
> >
> > At this point, the situation with Myriad is almost the opposite.
> >
> >
> >>
> >> >>That means that it will always be a distraction to get committers
> >> qualified as PMC so that they can approve releases and it will never
> really
> >> be possible to exit from incubation.
> >>
> >> I suggest we start with the contributions first.
> >>
> >
> > Can you name the 3-5 active PMC members who will vet the next release?
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Ted Dunning 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:15 PM, Swapnil Daingade <
> >>> swapnil.daing...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
>  In that case I suggest we not retire
> 
>  >> "Darin - yes we've done more planning internally, and we do plan on
>  having some engineers spend some time on this project, doing some
> (minor)
>  maintenance for our customers."
> 
> >>>
> >>> The problem is that there is essentially no real community that is
> >>> happening.
> >>>
> >>> None of the engineers previously working on this will be working on
> this
> >>> now. And that sort of situation isn't going to change.
> >>>
> >>> That means that it will always be a distraction to get committers
> >>> qualified as PMC so that they can approve releases and it will never
> really
> >>> be possible to exit from incubation.
> >>>
> >>> Outside of the Apache limits, we can have a much more flexible
> structure
> >>> of who can commit. We don't plan to limit who can commit. In fact, we
> will
> >>> probably make it more open than an Apache project normally is.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>

Re: Is Apache Myriad dead?

[Darin Johnson]

Can you name the 3-5 active PMC members who will vet the next release?

I'm willing to vet next release and contribute additional work we did to
Myriad but only if I get a solid commitment from others.  Otherwise I'm
happy to retire and let mapr host their fork.

On Jun 6, 2017 2:29 AM, "Ted Dunning"  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 12:56 AM, Swapnil Daingade <
> swapnil.daing...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> >> The problem is that there is essentially no real community that is
>> happening.
>>
>> retiring doesn't help that
>>
>
> The core problem here is lack of a viable PMC. A PMC has to have 3 active
> members at any given point. Typically this requires about 8 live members.
> Myriad is wildly short of that and thus will have serious problems doing
> any releases.
>
>
>>
>> >> None of the engineers previously working on this will be working on
>> this now. And that sort of situation isn't going to change.
>>
>> Events at MapR contributed to this situation. MapR scaled back its
>> involvement in Myriad and all its committers left.
>>
>
> Well, that is one way to look at it.
>
> On the other hand, if you actually were involved in the situations, you
> would know that none of the committers left because they didn't get to work
> on Myriad as part of their day jobs, nor did any of them feel enough
> attachment to work after hours (as I do on my projects), nor did any of
> them continue with the project after leaving for a new startup.
>
>
>> MapR is of course free to take its own decisions. But it sounds like
>> there is interest in working on Myriad, just not under the ASF umbrella.
>> I feel without ASF, one company will have too much control on Myriad.
>>
>
> The ASF is moving to retire Myriad because it can't make the cut as a
> viable project. No company will have control over the Apache version of the
> project at that point because the project is nothing to control.
>
> The desire to try to reboot the project outside of Apache has almost
> everything to do with the fact that Apache processes and the lack of active
> contributors means that nothing can happen. It isn't an end run around
> Apache constraints for the purpose of control, it is an attempt to keep the
> project alive at all.
>
>
>> Ted, you yourself warned us against this
>> http://www.zdnet.com/article/hadoop-veteran-ted-dunning-when
>> -open-source-is-anything-but-open/
>>
>
> Read the article. I warned about projects like Ambari. One company has all
> of the PMC.
>
> At this point, the situation with Myriad is almost the opposite.
>
>
>>
>> >>That means that it will always be a distraction to get committers
>> qualified as PMC so that they can approve releases and it will never really
>> be possible to exit from incubation.
>>
>> I suggest we start with the contributions first.
>>
>
> Can you name the 3-5 active PMC members who will vet the next release?
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 2:53 PM, Ted Dunning 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Jun 5, 2017 at 10:15 PM, Swapnil Daingade <
>>> swapnil.daing...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 In that case I suggest we not retire

 >> "Darin - yes we've done more planning internally, and we do plan on
 having some engineers spend some time on this project, doing some (minor)
 maintenance for our customers."

>>>
>>> The problem is that there is essentially no real community that is
>>> happening.
>>>
>>> None of the engineers previously working on this will be working on this
>>> now. And that sort of situation isn't going to change.
>>>
>>> That means that it will always be a distraction to get committers
>>> qualified as PMC so that they can approve releases and it will never really
>>> be possible to exit from incubation.
>>>
>>> Outside of the Apache limits, we can have a much more flexible structure
>>> of who can commit. We don't plan to limit who can commit. In fact, we will
>>> probably make it more open than an Apache project normally is.
>>>
>>>
>>
>