they are trying to warn that making automated edits to as
complex a data structure as OSM isn't as simple as it seems.
If that's what people want to say, they should say that. Not don't
write a bot; they're bad.
Are you willing to check, by hand, every single change made by this bot?
I
Hi,
Peter Budny wrote:
I'm building a robot as a school project that will use data from TIGER
imports and automatically create route relations for US state roads.
My advice is not to do it; if it can be done automatically, route
relations are not required, and many in our community view bots
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
Peter Budny wrote:
I'm building a robot as a school project that will use data from TIGER
imports and automatically create route relations for US state roads.
My advice is not to do it; if it can be done automatically, route
relations are not
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 04:36:34AM -0400, Peter Budny wrote:
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
Peter Budny wrote:
I'm building a robot as a school project that will use data from TIGER
imports and automatically create route relations for US state roads.
My advice is not to do
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:48:29 +0200, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 04:36:34AM -0400, Peter Budny wrote:
They /are/ required, because roads may be discontiguous in various
ways:
a road may change names (e.g. Main Street North becomes Main Street
South, but to a
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:12:44PM +0200, Matthias Julius wrote:
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 10:48:29 +0200, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 04:36:34AM -0400, Peter Budny wrote:
They /are/ required, because roads may be discontiguous in various
ways:
a road may change
Peter,
Peter Budny wrote:
If route relations are not required, then what are
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_Routes for?
There's two reasons why people do this.
One is that it allows them to easily access all ways that form a certain
road (simply request the relation
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:36 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
If route relations are not required, then what are
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_Routes for?
Not required and don't exist aren't quite the same things.
One major issue with relations in general is
My advice is not to do it; if it can be done automatically, route
relations are not required
If route relations are not required, then what are
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_Routes for?
Good question. What are they for? I never understood that either. :-)
I don't
Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 04:36:34AM -0400, Peter Budny wrote:
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
Peter Budny wrote:
I'm building a robot as a school project that will use data from TIGER
imports and automatically create route relations for US
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
But if, as I suspect, your plan was merely to collect everything
tagged ref=something and then stuff that into a route relation
called something, that's not an added value in my book.
In most cases, these ref=* tags don't exist yet. If we suppose
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
But if, as I suspect, your plan was merely to collect everything
tagged ref=something and then stuff that into a route relation
called something, that's not an added value in my
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Relations are the cleaner solution here. You /could/ accomplish the
same thing with regular tags, but who wants to see symbol=*, symbol_1=*,
symbol_2=*, etc. on every way in a city? (Or worse, a giant symbol=*
tag with
Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:36 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
If route relations are not required, then what are
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:route#Road_Routes for?
Not required and don't exist aren't quite the same things.
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
3) The road to hell in OSM is paved with bot intentions.
OSM has a long, negative history with bots. We have a very small
number of good imports, and dozens (if not more) bad imports. Bad
imports are so commonplace in
Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
But if, as I suspect, your plan was merely to collect everything
tagged ref=something and then stuff that into a route
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 8:49 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes:
But if, as I suspect, your plan was merely to collect
Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
3) The road to hell in OSM is paved with bot intentions.
OSM has a long, negative history with bots. We have a very small
number of good imports, and dozens (if not more) bad
Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com writes:
Regardless, how do you plan on handling the situation where a human
has to fill in the blanks?
I thought there were already tools for this. There's the wiki, where
people leave comments like Complete from Cobb to Bartow county.
There's OpenStreetBugs, where
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 9:56 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Ian Dees ian.d...@gmail.com writes:
Regardless, how do you plan on handling the situation where a human
has to fill in the blanks?
I thought there were already tools for this. There's the wiki, where
people leave
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com wrote:
3) The road to hell in OSM is paved with bot intentions.
OSM has a long, negative history with bots. We
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Relations are the cleaner solution here. You /could/ accomplish the
same thing with regular tags, but who
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:23 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Example 1: Un-joined ways (due to chunks of a road being part of
multiple imports, usually at county or state boundaries).
Currently, there are hundreds of thousands of these out there, lurking
unknown. A robot could
I thought there were already tools for this. There's the wiki, where
people leave comments like Complete from Cobb to Bartow county.
There's OpenStreetBugs, where we can mark things like overlapping nodes
that don't connect. Putting data into these where the robot can't make
a good decision
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:41 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Relations are the cleaner solution here. You /could/ accomplish
Mike N. nice...@att.net writes:
Example 2: One-way roads. TIGER isn't good about indicating the
directionality of a road, and there are a lot of rural areas that
haven't seen any editing yet. Consequently, there are a lot of
dual-carriageways that are not marked as oneway=yes. A robot could
For instance: I would love to see the correct symbol for roads on the
map--an Interstate shield, a US Highway shield, or a State Road shield
with the shape of the state. In a road relation, a URL to this is
stored in the symbol=* key. The renderer would just find all the road
relations a way
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 12:25 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
Wait, so you haven't got the time to fix the problem properly, but
you've got the time to write and test a bot, and get agreement from
all the people who will be affected by it?
Matt Amos zerebubuth at gmail.com writes:
of course, the best thing is that these automated edits never happen
at all, instead that tools are provided (like the geofabrik inspector,
keep-right or the duplicate nodes map) to help the community fix these
errors themselves. we need to start
Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Serge Wroclawski emac...@gmail.com
wrote:
3) The road to hell in OSM is paved with bot intentions.
OSM has
of course, the best thing is that these automated edits never happen
at all, instead that tools are provided (like the geofabrik inspector,
keep-right or the duplicate nodes map) to help the community fix these
errors themselves. we need to start cracking down on these disruptive
and
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:46 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Road routes are useful because it avoids the dreaded semicolon (as
someone else called it).
agreed this is useful. but it's not the whole story
For instance: I would love to see the correct symbol for roads on the
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Writing, testing, and evaluating a bot is within the scope of a class
project for Emerging Database Technologies. Working on osm2pgsql is
not.
So? If you were running a class
I understand that many people say bots are bad because of bad
expierences
but i don't see the point when you say
You seem to be tackling it from the perspective that running
a bot is the right way to solve it, and it's not.
This is just you are not of my opinion and as long as you are
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
Also, I'd advise you to leave TIGER data to one side. A very high
percentage of major roads in OSM in the US have been edited, many
multiple times
What about the minor roads?
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Jan Sandbrink fischikow...@web.de wrote:
sorry, but what i see happening on the list a lot of times is, that people
who just want to contribute somehow are smashed into the ground.
i welcome mr budny's contribution - as a tool for users to identify
and fix
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:18 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Well, I'm already committed to the project. If the general tone is that
automated edits are not welcome, I'll happily do edits on a local
database and throw them away later, leaving OSM in exactly the same
incomplete
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 1:18 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 5:25 PM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Writing, testing, and evaluating a bot is within the scope of a class
project for Emerging Database
obviously they are either good enough in
there current status or no one cares about it. there is 0 benefit in
automatic edits.
Are you serious?
What about the guy that wants to use any kind of routing software to go
from A to B?
if streets are not connected in a place where nobody cares this
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:53 PM, Jan Sandbrink fischikow...@web.de wrote:
Are you serious?
What about the guy that wants to use any kind of routing software to go from
A to B?
if streets are not connected in a place where nobody cares this means he
will get redirected over some areas where
On 12 October 2010 19:27, Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 7:41 AM, Peter Budny pet...@gatech.edu wrote:
Andy Allan gravityst...@gmail.com writes:
Also, I'd advise you to leave TIGER data to one side. A very high
percentage of major roads in OSM in the
Are you serious?
What about the guy that wants to use any kind of routing software to go
from A to B?
if streets are not connected in a place where nobody cares this means he
will get redirected over some areas where people care.
All of today's routing software ignores route relations. I
On 12 October 2010 19:56, Mike N. nice...@att.net wrote:
I'm not anti-bot; even this auto relation proposal could turn out to be
useful - as long as it is demonstrated offline rather than just blindly
uploading it all and hoping it might have a positive effect.
+1
Emilie Laffray
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 10:53 AM, Jan Sandbrink fischikow...@web.de wrote:
obviously they are either good enough in
there current status or no one cares about it. there is 0 benefit in
automatic edits.
Are you serious?
Yes
What about the guy that wants to use any kind of routing
if they haven't been touched what is the advantage to touch them by a bot or
other automatic edits? obviously they are either good enough in there
current status or no one cares about it.
Well, finally! We can declare OSM to be DONE! Yay! The map is
complete! That part you thought needed
Apollinaris Schoell ascho...@gmail.com writes:
would you trust a routing based on automatic edits?
Do you trust routing with the current data? You shouldn't, because it's
provably wrong.
My main proposal is just to create new relations, which has /no bearing/
on the correctness of the ways.
On 12/10/2010 20:54, Alan Millar wrote:
You can't equate the need for improvement in the data with the method
used to improve it. Well, apparently you can, but it is a specious
argument.
Saying that data needs some improvement doesn't prove that a particular
method *will* improve it either.
Matt Amos zerebub...@gmail.com writes:
On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Jan Sandbrink fischikow...@web.de wrote:
sorry, but what i see happening on the list a lot of times is, that people
who just want to contribute somehow are smashed into the ground.
i welcome mr budny's contribution - as
Jonathan Bennett openstreet...@jonno.cix.co.uk writes:
On 12/10/2010 20:54, Alan Millar wrote:
You can't equate the need for improvement in the data with the method
used to improve it. Well, apparently you can, but it is a specious
argument.
Saying that data needs some improvement doesn't
On Wed, 13 Oct 2010, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
Are you willing to check, by hand, every single change made by this bot? If
not, how can you be sure it hasn't created as many problems as it has solved?
That's the problem with automated edits -- people assume they're 100% correct
when experience
I'm building a robot as a school project that will use data from TIGER
imports and automatically create route relations for US state roads.
There are tens of thousands of these, so some automation seems
appropriate.
I'm not sure what the best way to access the data is. The robot will
have to
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