Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-21 Thread Dane Springmeyer
On Oct 16, 2012, at 8:39 AM, Eric Marsden wrote: fr == Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes: - Should SVG export be replaced with something else, or improved in Mapnik enough to be worthwhile? fr Definitely a question that I am often asked - keep in mind that there fr are two

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-21 Thread Dane Springmeyer
On Oct 18, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Kai Krueger wrote: Dane Springmeyer wrote I believe I'm right in saying that he doesn't have a working test setup at the moment since we moved to mapnik 2 and we need to sort that out but equally moving to git may be an issue because I believe Windows support in

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-21 Thread Kai Krueger
On 10/21/2012 04:15 PM, Dane Springmeyer wrote: On Oct 18, 2012, at 5:05 PM, Kai Krueger wrote: [...] I am not sure if this is essential for getting the rendering stack back up and running on windows, but afaik the most recent version of osm2pgsql on windows is from early 2010. It would be

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-18 Thread yvecai
On 10/17/2012 11:33 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: Even if we had the technology you propose, how long do you think we should wait in the hope that translations arrived before pushing something like? Without paid translators we have no way of ensuring timely translations even if we do all the things

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-18 Thread Kai Krueger
Dane Springmeyer wrote I believe I'm right in saying that he doesn't have a working test setup at the moment since we moved to mapnik 2 and we need to sort that out but equally moving to git may be an issue because I believe Windows support in git is a bit patchy. Yes, this is my

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-17 Thread Andy Allan
On 17 October 2012 05:26, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote: It has roughly the same importance than the main API The OSMF Operations Working Group classify the planet.osm.org feeds at the same (highest) level of importance to the project already. It's absolutely core. On the other

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-17 Thread Andy Allan
On 16 October 2012 11:02, Jochen Topf joc...@remote.org wrote: I don't think we can bring all of this into a single export tab. In fact, if we reduce all of this into a single export tab we risk alienating people who try out whats offered, find it lacking and then go away not understanding

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-17 Thread Andy Allan
On 16 October 2012 00:17, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 15/10/12 23:40, Alex Barth wrote: - Translations are a frequent bottleneck for copy changes, unclear how to solve this. I'm not sure why you think this, but I can only think it is because you are overthinking the issue and

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-17 Thread Tom Hughes
On 17/10/12 22:17, Andy Allan wrote: On 16 October 2012 00:17, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: The way it works is this - you don't worry about translations as such at all. You just make sure strings are translatable and we commit that and then the translators get to work. Yes, when

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-17 Thread Kai Krueger
Tom Hughes-3 wrote On 17/10/12 22:17, Andy Allan wrote: On 16 October 2012 00:17, Tom Hughes lt; tom@ gt; wrote: The way it works is this - you don't worry about translations as such at all. You just make sure strings are translatable and we commit that and then the translators get to

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Jochen Topf
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 07:48:24PM -0700, John Firebaugh wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Exporting raw data was never the primary purpose of the export tab - it was really added to address the constant request for the ability to export images of an

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Paweł Paprota
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012, at 11:09, Frederik Ramm wrote: - How could the Mapnik style be more open to improvements? We definitely need to get it on GitHub. I don't think the version control system used makes a difference - I doubt the 400+ issues filed against the current style would be

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Tom Hughes
On 16/10/12 05:42, Serge Wroclawski wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Exporting raw data was never the primary purpose of the export tab - it was really added to address the constant request for the ability to export images of an area. Do we have

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Eric Marsden
fr == Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes: fr In Wikipedia, all user-to-user messages are automatically public fr (unless both parties agree to take it to email). Maybe food for fr thought - do we need private messages at all? There seem to be fr quite a number of bullies in OSM who

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Eric Marsden
fr == Frederik Ramm frede...@remote.org writes: - Should SVG export be replaced with something else, or improved in Mapnik enough to be worthwhile? fr Definitely a question that I am often asked - keep in mind that there fr are two kinds of SVG, that which conforms to the standard and

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Tom MacWright
The problem I see is, other than pointing to planet.openstreetmap.org I'm not sure where else we would send them? While there are lots of other places to get things like regional extracts they are unofficial third party sites so I don't think that we should be referring people to them from the

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Tom Hughes
On 16/10/12 16:40, Tom MacWright wrote: The problem I see is, other than pointing to planet.openstreetmap.org http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ I'm not sure where else we would send them? While there are lots of other places to get things like regional extracts they are unofficial third party

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread SomeoneElse
Tom Hughes wrote: As to other sites, the problems are several fold - how do we decide to bless one particular site over another? not to mention the fact that we might end up driving more traffic to such sites than they could handle. From a purely end-user perspective, having lots of

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Ian Dees
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 8:47 AM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: On 16/10/12 16:40, Tom MacWright wrote: The problem I see is, other than pointing to planet.openstreetmap.org http://planet.openstreetmap.**org/ http://planet.openstreetmap.org/ I'm not sure where else we would send them?

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Frederik Ramm
Hi, On 16.10.2012 17:32, Eric Marsden wrote: fr thought - do we need private messages at all? There seem to be fr quite a number of bullies in OSM who send self-important messages fr to lesser experienced mappers explaining their rules... that fr could be stopped if all messages were public.

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Roland Olbricht
As to other sites, the problems are several fold - how do we decide to bless one particular site over another? Please be honest. You, I, and everbody else also set preferences on at best educated guesses, often more trust in what or whom we know or don't know. We use OpenLayers and not

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Martijn van Exel
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 8:48 PM, John Firebaugh john.fireba...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Exporting raw data was never the primary purpose of the export tab - it was really added to address the constant request for the ability to export

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Alex Barth
On Oct 16, 2012, at 2:48 PM, Martijn van Exel m...@rtijn.org wrote: I agree with John that there is a need for a clear path for folks to the various data consumption options. I believe the Export tab should really be the Data tab, with options for * immediately downloading the current map

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Martin Koppenhoefer
2012/10/16 Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu: The problem I see is, other than pointing to planet.openstreetmap.org I'm not sure where else we would send them? You could point them here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Downloading_data I think what is really missing are some short explanations,

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Martijn van Exel
Wow, that page does look a lot like what I concocted this morning - see earlier in the thread or here is the link again: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1dASGp5U0jRNZ3Kzb-LtzeOtUACqlLVh9GZdiKTftTOQ/edit My major concern with that page, now that I know it's there, is that there is no

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-16 Thread Roland Olbricht
This would mean folding http://planet.osm.org/ into a future data tab, no? How do the planet osm maintainers see this? http://planet.openstreetmap.org is the interface from the main DB to all kind of data consuming services, including the renderers, Nominatim, Overpass API and several others.

[OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-15 Thread Alex Barth
Hello everyone - Here are my (slightly edited) notes from the Birds of a Feather session on the Knight grant and OSM improvements we had at PDX. Much of what's been mentioned meshes closely with the OSM Wishlist thread [1]. Please fill in / expand / contest where you see fit. Just like the

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-15 Thread Tom Hughes
On 15/10/12 23:40, Alex Barth wrote: - Translations are a frequent bottleneck for copy changes, unclear how to solve this. I'm not sure why you think this, but I can only think it is because you are overthinking the issue and aiming for a level of perfection that we are never likely to

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-15 Thread Cartinus
On 10/16/2012 02:32 AM, Dane Springmeyer wrote: On Oct 15, 2012, at 4:17 PM, Tom Hughes wrote: One of the problems here is that the person that leads this effort is primarily a cartographer rather than a developer, and is also on Windows which tends to lead to various technology issues.

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-15 Thread John Firebaugh
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: Exporting raw data was never the primary purpose of the export tab - it was really added to address the constant request for the ability to export images of an area. The data export things was something I threw in because I

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-15 Thread Serge Wroclawski
On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Tom Hughes t...@compton.nu wrote: ## Getting data out of osm.org - Starting from osm.org it could be more straightforward to find proper download options - Export tab on osm.org is one of the most popular locations, but needs a lot of improvement. E.g. it

Re: [OSM-dev] Notes - OSM improvements BoF at SOTM PDX

2012-10-15 Thread Roland Olbricht
Hello everyone - ## Getting data out of osm.org - Export tab on osm.org is one of the most popular locations, but needs a lot of improvement. E.g. it does not explain how the downloaded data can be used. How can export be more actionable? - if an export fails due to its size, it's not