Re: [racket-dev] Five feature/limitation interactions conspire to drive mad

2013-01-02 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Jan 1, 2013, at 7:42 PM, Neil Toronto wrote: Question: did you start the math library in an untyped form (and switch) or did you go with types from the get-go? It's all been in Typed Racket from the beginning. This was initially because I mostly had floating-point functions planned,

Re: [racket-dev] Working on Ragg. Suggestions?

2013-01-02 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Jan 1, 2013, at 5:59 PM, Danny Yoo wrote: (Note: the Python parser example works! It's basically a copy and paste of the one in the original Python source tree.) That is fantastic. I need to polish ragg. Thanks. I can foresee tons of uses in the DSL world.

[racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread John Clements
As I was trying to assembly my first planet2 package, I found myself wondering how exactly to 'require' modules associated with planet2 packages. My initial assumption (require them like any other collection containing modules) turned out to be correct, but there was a period when I doubted

Re: [racket-dev] Five feature/limitation interactions conspire to drive mad

2013-01-02 Thread Neil Toronto
On 01/02/2013 10:09 AM, Matthias Felleisen wrote: I remain worried that R programmers will want to use math and array and matrix and friends and will experience performance problems when you have invested so much work in doing it right the first time. But we will see. They'll experience

Re: [racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread Jay McCarthy
The documentation already says A package is a set of modules for some number of collections. And there's no reason to think that these modules are different from other modules, so I don't see why we need to point out that they are required like all other modules are. If you think it's very

Re: [racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread Carl Eastlund
There _is_ reason to think these modules are different, because they were different in Planet1. I've had to remind myself several times that Planet2 packages don't have special require forms, and that's just during discussions -- I haven't even been writing code with them yet. Clarifying that

Re: [racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread Jay McCarthy
I agree in that context that it is useful as a part of the What's different about Planet 2? And it's there (question 6). But, in the context of a new Racket user learning about packages, I don't see a reason to add the baggage of how it's different than some system they've never used. Jay On

Re: [racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread Carl Eastlund
It doesn't need to be phrased as a comparison to Planet1, but it can be given as a reassurance that this package system thingy does not add any baggage to require lines. Carl Eastlund On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 3:49 PM, Jay McCarthy jay.mccar...@gmail.com wrote: I agree in that context that it is

Re: [racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread Jay McCarthy
Sounds fine. John's original language seems like that and is good to me. On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Carl Eastlund c...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: It doesn't need to be phrased as a comparison to Planet1, but it can be given as a reassurance that this package system thingy does not add any

Re: [racket-dev] Five feature/limitation interactions conspire to drive mad

2013-01-02 Thread Vincent St-Amour
At Wed, 02 Jan 2013 12:39:21 -0700, Neil Toronto wrote: Interesting. My extremely limited experience -- and Shriram's -- suggests an eternal struggle with the numerical tower for 'beginners' like myself. This is my experience as well. One place this bit me pretty early was getting TR

Re: [racket-dev] Attempted clarification for planet2 docs

2013-01-02 Thread John Clements
On Jan 2, 2013, at 1:03 PM, Jay McCarthy wrote: Sounds fine. John's original language seems like that and is good to me. Pushed, thanks. John On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 1:59 PM, Carl Eastlund c...@ccs.neu.edu wrote: It doesn't need to be phrased as a comparison to Planet1, but it can be

Re: [racket-dev] Five feature/limitation interactions conspire to drive mad

2013-01-02 Thread Neil Toronto
On 01/02/2013 02:51 PM, Vincent St-Amour wrote: At Wed, 02 Jan 2013 12:39:21 -0700, Neil Toronto wrote: One place this bit me pretty early was getting TR to optimize loops over indexes *without using casts or assertions*. Right, fixnum types are tricky. They don't have many closure

Re: [racket-dev] Five feature/limitation interactions conspire to drive mad

2013-01-02 Thread Matthias Felleisen
On Jan 2, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Neil Toronto wrote: After you do understand the numeric tower well, you start looking for ways to prove to TR that your code won't explode at runtime. It's not always possible - again because, sometimes, the types aren't as precise as they could be. But