I'm here in Guatemala, and I see it to the point where it is a serious
problem. This is an interesting data point, because it is more humid than
hot here - average temperature around 21C but average humidity in the 70s or
so -
On Mon, Aug 25, 2008 at 11:12 PM, Erik Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It has recently come to my attention that the majority of the traffic on
the wiki is coming from Uruguay XO users (students it seems).
Could we track, or are we already tracking, pageviews per page by
country of origin
Both persons who have answered me have talked about how things from
the video frame can be seen. But I was not looking at video - I
was looking at TEXT. If I understand correctly what has been told
me here, neither the 'black' of the text characters themselves, nor
the 'white' of the
As opposed to a new list, we could use the topics function of mailman to
enable
people to select that they only want python breakage emails, for example,
that
contain a certin regexp. This topic can be addded by the list admin, per
As you can see, the present security difficulties stem from the lack of
effort spent on recording user intentions about what permissions should
be applied to what activities. Signatures do absolutely nothing to
address this problem -- they only permit an as-yet undesigned system
interpreter
As above, hashes can be computed on the unpacked activity bundles. No
modification to the bundle format is necessary; moreover, why would you
ever rely on the correctness of a manifest supplied by the bundle
itself?
The current manifest format hashes everything in a directory. That includes
2008/8/1 Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 4:07 PM, John Gilmore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Why does it matter that you cannot adjust the screen brightness from
the console using the special keys? You can adjust it from Sugar
without root access. The idea was to
Problem: anything named Journal, Terminal, Log, or Analyze is not
isolated. This is the biggest security hole we have right now: it is a
trivial way for any activity to get root access.
Idea: as a short-term hack (until we have good cryptographic signatures for
activities), only turn off
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 4:01 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 5:01 PM, Jameson Chema Quinn
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Problem: anything named Journal, Terminal, Log, or Analyze is not
isolated. This is the biggest security hole we have right now
Note that I am currently working on a (somewhat large) patch which will not
turn off isolation for anything outside share/... (that is, the activities
in ~/Activities will all be isolated). This will close the gigantic security
hole where anything named Terminal or Journal was not isolated.
| 1. The datastore
| 2. OS Updates
| 3. File Sharing
| 4. Activity Modification
| 5. Bitfrost
| 6. Power management
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:02 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 8:18 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
really surprisingly
On Wed, Jul 16, 2008 at 3:54 PM, Martin Langhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Thu, Jul 17, 2008 at 4:54 AM, Michael Stone [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
What _should_ be happening in this thread is the collection of use
cases.
For a small selection of the issues involved, please refer to
For these reasons, in my humble opinion, choosing our software packaging
format and guidelines (of which version numbering is but a single
aspect) is NOT A TRIVIAL EXERCISE and is not as simple as picking an
off-the-shelf format. (I wish that the reality were otherwise).
Absolutely agreed.
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 8:29 PM, Mikus Grinbergs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If, as is the current plan, multiple versions of
an activity can coexist on an XO, ...
Two use cases:
1. I have a journal object. I want to choose which activity to open it
with.
I am presented with a multilevel
Well, actually, the mango suggestion was made originally as a tree, not a
fruit - as the tree Freire learned to read underneath. Obviously the concept
of learning under a tree exists in many cultures around the world, and
there are several trees that would work for this:
apple (newton),
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:57 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
2008/7/15 Jameson Chema Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you have a better idea of how Glucose should handle these issues,
please
share it. Simplifying assumptions are good, even if they're not 100%
valid.
Versions
On Tue, Jul 15, 2008 at 12:57 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
2008/7/15 Jameson Chema Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
If you have a better idea of how Glucose should handle these issues,
please
share it. Simplifying assumptions are good, even if they're not 100%
valid.
Versions
I agree with the signature approach. However, I don't really know what
happens when I have 37, 38, and 39 where 39 is a bugfix release of 37, and
39 is a brand new version...I'd prefer to see them ordered 37, 39, 38, to
coincide with the level of newness. This is something we will lose
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 3:40 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 5:24 PM, Greg Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
My suggestion is to use names of famous pedagogues as code names. I
suggest we call this one Freire for Paulo Freire
On Mon, Jul 14, 2008 at 4:18 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If we're going to a 'dotted decimal' scheme, we
should use '.'.
...
Is 1.1 newer or older than 1.11?)
This is exactly the reason I think that 1-1 ... 1-11 is clearer (you're
right, colon is unworkable because it
I'd like to pose an alternative goal, inspired by your comment: Glucose
should never attempt to parse version strings. I believe that we can
accomplish this without sacrificing any of the user-facing behaviors that
we truly desire. The choice of an appropriate versioning scheme may then
be
So, that said, starting with Freire might still allow us to move in a
different direction for 9.2 and avoid the learning philosophy wars.
--scott
I could easily propose my trees idea as a follow up to Freire. He spoke of
learning to write with a stick in the dirt under a mango tree. 9.2 =
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jameson Chema Quinn wrote:
| It is desirable for Sugar to be able to compare versions and
| guess which one is newer.
Newer means more recent. If this capability is important to you, then
we may simply include a datestamp in each bundle
Finally: Ivan do you see security implications in a future
implementation of this approach which also allows the resulting
changes to an object launched in this manner from being passed back to
the invoking activity. For instance, consider a Website activity
which you can import source
handle
this - but data (such as private pictures encoded in the URL) that go from
other activities to Browse.
2008/7/6 Ivan Krstić [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Jul 5, 2008, at 9:27 AM, Jameson Chema Quinn wrote:
I do not think that URI's pointing to the local machine are what is needed
here
On Fri, Jul 4, 2008 at 4:42 PM, Ivan Krstić
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Jul 4, 2008, at 1:37 PM, Edward Cherlin wrote:
My guess is that there is a way to secure the
process, but it might require some extra effort beyond a software fix,
like teachers whitelisting URLs for lessons. Or
On Wed, Jun 11, 2008 at 3:08 AM, Bert Freudenberg [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On 11.06.2008, at 03:37, Jameson Chema Quinn wrote:
Thus, there would be three kinds of activities:
those with full network access, able to talk to arbitrary IP addresses
(browse is inescapably in this category
Somewhat off-topic, but I want to get this idea out there. Disclaimer: I am
suggesting a mechanism for extra security that would build beyond bitfrost,
when we have yet to implement the relevant part of bitfrost in the first
place. If you think it is a waste of time to look beyond the next step,
Cool! I would call this bookbinder if it were an activity.
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Actually, the goals are more limited. Say you have dual-boot; OS 1 has
bitfrost, OS 2 does not. Things OS 2 should not do:
1. Read private files from OS 1.
1a. Read encryption key from OS 1, thus subverting all security which that
key gives. This, in particular, should be avoided.
1a(i). By
Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jameson Chema Quinn writes:
Actually, the goals are more limited. Say you have dual-boot;
OS 1 has bitfrost, OS 2 does not. Things OS 2 should not do:
1. Read private files from OS 1.
...
2. By writing to OS 1's file system,
I do believe that, practically
2008/5/29 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
On Thu, 29 May 2008, Jameson Chema Quinn wrote:
I just had an IRC conversation with Benjamin Schwarz in which we talked
about:
He said that 3,4, and 5 have been considered more serious than 1 and 2;
since they are impossible, there is little point doing 1
Bitfrost protections are meaningless if they only work half of the time. If
you have a dual-boot box, how can one OS keep its protections even if the
other half is considered untrusted code? This is of course even harder
without passwords.
However, it is not impossible, with help from the
Finding the balance of authority between these two people is IMHO a
critical strategic issue.
yes.
Without an explicit decision, there will be
tension.
But some tension is good.
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Yay, I am happy about this patch (when there is a patch :)
- at every create and update, a json file is created next to the object's
file,
I definitely think it should be in the same directory as the object file,
with a related name. It might even be worth using the macintosh ._name
naming
OK, here's the status on your list. In general, I had taken it as a given
that most of what you said would work before I moved on.
Develop should be really really good at creating new activities, and
editing existing ones, without any need for using Terminal and other
editors. That should be
On Fri, May 16, 2008 at 5:50 AM, Tomeu Vizoso [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2008/5/16 Jameson Chema Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
* No need for DoppelJournal
The two necessary patches have existed for months now, Tomeu had promised
to
review them, but that is apparently going slowly.
Some
* NO TOTAL LOSS OF JOURNAL CONTENTS.
Haven't seen it in months. Datastore should be made more sturdy anyway. I
know that this answer is lame, but how do I debug what I can't now
reproduce?
Perhaps you should revise http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Develop then :)
I don't trust magic
Hey Zach. I'm the maintainer for the Develop activity, over the long term
I would love to have this functionality in Develop. Got to go now, but we
definitely have to talk. You should start hanging out on the IRC channels -
I am homonq (actually I misspelled that to keep google from caching my
I am planning to apply to OLPC for a job as a contractor, working on
Develop. I have been told that my first-priority feature, automatic code
localization http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bityi/GSoC, would be hard to
justify on the OLPC roadmap. So I'd like to hear some votes/priorities on
the following
One low-hanging fruit for faster activity start is having activity install
compile .pyc files, with (tiny) extra points if the .pyc gets hints to not
use jffs2 compression. This is on my gameplan with the bundle format update
stuff, but I have gotten stuck on the signatures (openssl cannot read
I think expanding the space available to the DS through usb devices or
sd cards is a use case we should take in consideration when designing
the DS, even if we don't plan to support it right now.
Marco
To be more clear about this use case: I think that there should definitely
be a way for
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 6:43 PM, C. Scott Ananian [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Fri, May 9, 2008 at 2:26 PM, Joshua N Pritikin [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Fri, May 09, 2008 at 12:10:07PM -0600, Jameson Chema Quinn wrote:
To be more clear about this use case: I think that there should
-If UID can hide in the metadata, which, if I understand, is preserved as
part of the file even on foreign (unix-only?) filesystems (wow!), I do not
see any compelling reason for it to be in the filename. Locally-stored files
could have their real filenames, with 2 random characters at a time
Current versions of Develop should not need special dispensation. Versions
up to about 24 did need it.
On Tue, May 6, 2008 at 9:16 AM, Mikus Grinbergs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Earlier, I had written:
Of various Activities to which I previously gave special dispensation
from Rainbow, three
storage. The mechanisms required for handling removable media, USB hard
drives, and networked storage, are all essentially the same.
++
Technically, I think this would mean that the metadata are stored on the
NAND, with some UID of the associated file. The file, if not present on the
NAND,
Here's my POV on the issues...
issue
affects all users
affects all developers
radical change suggested
tolerability of current state of affairs
how hard to improve
power management
6
2
?
5
3
mesh
6
4
6
4
5
both of the above together
7
datastore
8
8
10
3
5*
I'm going to take a flier here...
I live in Guatemala and could try to organize a rural test site here. More
usability data would be the least of the outcomes.
This is obviously not a simple task. Looking at the give many numbers
(100 XOs @ $299; 1000 @ $249; 10,000 @ $199) these numbers are
Redundancy is not bad. There are people who care about year (it is far
easier to remember that the last time I updated was 2 years ago, than
remember the build number then) and they should have something to hold on
to. I vote including the year in addition to whatever else, but not using
it to
My terminology in the preceding letter was bad. Rather than resend the fixed
version, I put it on the wiki:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Bundles_and_updates. Please read that
instead of the letter above: it has all the same content,
but with better clarity, and one added paragraph near the end.
Sorry for clogging people's inboxes, but, in the spirit of having a livelier
discussion on the mailing list, here are the most-changed sections from the
wiki page. If we reach some conclusion here, I will take responsibility for
keepint the wiki page up-to-date.
Finally, to stimulate discussion, below are a few applications that
deserve more feedback and mentor attention.
2 points:
1. A lot of these are not on the wiki, or were not in the [[Category:GSoC
proposals]]. I've rectified that for the ones I could find, but I'd really
like to read some
OK, the mini-conference happened - thanks for trying to let off-siters like
me participate. Here's the Gobby doc which resulted, below are my
post-meeting comments:
Activity sharing:
* Should we show people what the size/download time for a package is before
d/l?
* We might download something
Since Develop now relies on bundlebuilder to create its journal entries (.xo
files), I have become familiar with the fragility of the activity bundle
format. The original sin is that, if you have a bundle of files, you
shouln't need a separate list of those files in MANIFEST. The various
symptoms
Of COURSE you need to empower students. What I'm saying is that the program
will be more successful if you also empower teachers. A lot of the needs are
the same - access to materials for learning - but one of them is different -
tools for keeping track of learning.
Actually, to be honest, good
On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 1:05 PM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
C. Scott Ananian wrote:
| On Sat, Mar 29, 2008 at 1:47 AM, Benjamin M. Schwartz
| [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
| We will have an open discussion of how to build a framework that will
ease the
| creation of
Part of the allure of constructivism is that it supposedly reduces the role
of the teacher and the bureaucrat, allowing a country where teaching jobs
have been political handouts to the incompetent, to improve its education
system from the bottom up. There are many good arguments for
It's getting to be time to share my work on Develop on this list. The latest
version is now up on the wiki. Below, I've pasted a copy of some relevant
text from that page. Please, try it out, and of course, all patches are
welcome.
Jameson
...copy from wiki page follows...
WARNINGS
Currently
As I said in my previous email, Bitfrost clearly states (correctly, in
my mind) that even justified belief that code originates from some known
individual implies no trust relationship with that code. Period. Use
isolation to make it safer to play with code and use signing to help
reduce
I see 3 meaningful possibilities:
1. P_IDENT activities can sign/unencrypt anything with users private key,
with no user knowledge. Thus a signature means only that communication comes
from a given laptop, and has no implication about the awareness or assent of
the user of that laptop.
2.
Now that there are a significant number of laptops in Peru, high-altitude
testing may be more feasible. What test plan would you want followed in
order to be able to raise the specs?
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 9:00 AM, John Watlington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I understand your concern. I
On Tue, Mar 11, 2008 at 3:59 PM, Charles Merriam [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Is there *any* suggestion that the entire Microsoft on OLPC story is
anything other than:
1. A small group of experimenters at Microsoft playing around in the
slack time.
2. FUD stories to downplay OLPC.
You forgot
Just some bikeshedding here:
Quasi-synchronising the avahi peer still there? queries so that they all
happen together - say, within a 1-minute period every 10 minutes - was
proposed as a solution so that laptops could wake up in anticipation
(Benjamin Schwartz). The fact that this solution did
I don't have anything too useful to contribute, I just wanted to say that it
would be great if you could make a new activity. I looked into making one
based on Tinymail as my initial get-to-know-sugar exercise, but I have ended
up working on Develop. I only saw enough to see that tinymail is
SJ's answer is the best one. However, if you want a kludgey hack, you could
do something like
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Homunq/toctest
This uses template substitution to manually create links to subpage#section
in the section headers. It means that someone editing the subpage later will
Making a mediawiki bot is not too hard - all the skeleton exists in python,
you only have to flesh it out with your own logic.
As for the TOC, the template idea is that you use noinclude ...
/noinclude around all the parts of the templates that are NOT headers (or
you can start the noinclude
Oops, I sent the below off-list by mistake.
-- Forwarded message --
From: Jameson Chema Quinn [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 2:28 AM
Subject: Re: Open Simulator with Physics Engine
To: Joshua Minor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Making a good learning simulator is an art. Too
re: turn off the network when not contributing
I second this idea, if it can be implemented.
Separate from suspended battery life, there is sleep life (I have to say I
still think these words are backwards. Suspend = automatic, screen on,
sleep= power button or close case, screen off; right?).
This is a little off-topic, but just wondering...
In my work on Develop, I am looking at a similar situation: application
bundles. These are zip files with the extension .xo. My question is, why
bother zipping them if the file system compresses anyway?
Why not, you ask. I know that ziptools can
It would be great to get z3p's new Develop activity hosted on git before
this sprint happens, as I am sure it would be a popular target for the
audience. See the thread Activity Hosting Application: Develop, and see
also its newly-revised wiki page: http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Develop .
Running joyride 1551 and q2d07, I was running a bunch of apps with backlight
off, it went to sleep on me, I tried to wake it up and got a BSOD-like
message about EC problem. (Had logging turned on as described in 5485,
echo 0x6184 /sys/module/libertas/parameters/libertas_debug) I searched
trac
I know that we're supposed to all be developers here, and know how to change
the firmware in our sleep; but it would be great to include a link to
instructions. I searched the wiki -
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manual_Firmware_Install is worse than useless, and
Simple. Put the manual install instructions in
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Manual_Firmware_Install and then, in each
relnotes page add {{:Manual_Firmware_Install}}, which will include the text
of that page in the one it is as a template in.
If you want to be even cooler, in
Wasn't it the Nazi's who first used censorship? On the other hand, people
who died in Nazi concentration camps have unanimously refused to play Doom.
New thread please?
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Finally, any suggestions about how to extent, augment, or replace
Media Wiki with tools to make these sorts of things easier for the
community to manage would be appreciated.
There are several mediaWiki extensions that might help:
1. You could do an evil hack using the well-tested
I'm rescuing this concrete suggestion, since most people probably have the
'violent activities' thread in their killfile by now. (Sorry about that, I'm
as guilty as any of adding personal anecdotes instead of productive
contributions).
The problem: have a community-maintained list of activities
I'm rescuing this concrete suggestion, since most people probably have the
'violent activities' thread in their killfile by now. (Sorry about that, I'm
as guilty as any of adding personal anecdotes instead of productive
contributions).
The problem: have a community-maintained list of activities
That's great - a 'somebody oughta' thread that actually produces action!
Good job, guys!
Now, somebody oughta dodge the patents for MP3, too
Jameson
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Oops - I have to stop using that 'reply' button in gmail. This was meant to
go to the list in general, the first half is now obsolete (except to make me
look like a fool) because Antoine responded, but the second half is still
valid.
You use the word us very often. Please tell the list members
BTW, I am confused by this discussion thread. I thought OLPC was about
bringing learning environments into the reach of the neglected children -
those who don't have access to well-equipped school rooms or educated
guides.
Does XO really make sense in environments that already have
Let's keep our feet on the ground here.
Just because teaching is a field where mediocrity (or worse) often goes
unpunished, does not mean that expertise is irrelevant. It is possible for a
bunch of non-teachers on a mailing list to have good ideas, or to discuss
good ideas they've heard
The idea of activity sharing supports several important forms of classroom
interaction, and can be stretched to accommodate many more. However the
focus on constructionism means there's a lack of support for teacher-centric
interactions, even ones which are useful in constructionist learning.
I'm still noodling around, trying to settle on a good design for develop. It
looks as if libglade would be nice to have. The interfaces it uses are
loaded directly from XML, which makes them separate from the source code. I
did a naive 'yum install libglade' and my XO pulled 100k for the library
Teacher screen grab: that would be good. A view of which people use what
applications is also useful, because it can fit the whole class on screen -
and it's pretty close to what you already get in the friends view. So, is it
possible under Bitfrost for a background activity to grab the screen AND
Thanks for the reality check. But:
I don't see any reason to include Glade, unless you also intend to include
complete a complementary graphical interface builder tuned for Activities.
That
would be a multi-year project.
I disagree, it's just a matter of making a widget catalog.
The
- version control. Activity Sharing (see below) only really covers the
Pair Programming use case. The version control concept covers a range
of other issues. Develop should track changes made by programmers, and
provide them with a means to share and merge their changes. This one I
spent
I'm doing some initial thinking about how I want the Develop activity to
work. I'd like it to start out with write access to a shallow (file-linked)
copy of the activity's whole directory, and then if there are any writes,
start up source control. I'm not an expert on file systems, though, so I
There are various possible solutions. In order from smallest to largest
changes:
1. Move the select tool onto the Edit toolbar, or put it in both places.
2. Automatically change to the select tool for as long as you're using
the
edit toolbar.
3. Move from an select - action (object
On Jan 2, 2008 2:17 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
selections: verb-object or object-verb
... discussion running on... the next step is example code... not gonna do
it next.
global preferences
Quite true. I think we'll probably introduce a form of fullscreen
modal dialog for
On Jan 2, 2008 5:35 PM, Eben Eliason [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Quite true. I think we'll probably introduce a form of fullscreen
modal dialog for such a thing. That is, you press an account
settings button and get a fullscreen overlay containing all of the
necessary settings, hiding
On Dec 30, 2007 12:02 AM, Albert Cahalan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jameson Chema Quinn writes:
One thing I've noticed in Tux Paint is that an Edit toolbar is far
less useful than an Edit menu. You want to copy something - you go
to the edit toolbar - you select the copy 'tool
I suggest taking a look at PyPy for Python, which will dynamic recompile
Python to native code and likely give some good performance benefits. I
really can't stand JIT compilation and would prefer something that takes
advantage of Mono's own facilities, to centralize the effort in the JIT
Starting January 6, I plan to be working 20 hours a week on Develop.
Actually I was gonna do tinymail first as Sugar practice. I estimate that I
will have something useable (for Develop) within a month, though usable is
very very far from feature-complete. No source control, language features,
What I was suggesting though is
that there should *not* be a clock in the Sugar frame visible all the
time.
+1 to including hooks to Sugar for frame-resident mini-apps.
+1 to making the frame clock optional (turned on from the clock activity -
another reason to keep it an activity) and
I'm thinking about syntax coloring. In cases like this, it is more important
to be able to see *whether* something is colored than to see what color it
is. Even with no backlight, the diagonal banding would give you that
information; the smoothing, by reducing that banding, would be getting in
the
This is about the status of my work on a translating editor for python,
based on IDLE. For those who don't already know (sorry for repeating myself
with those who do): the basic idea is to make an editor which dynamically
translates python code on load/save/execute into or out of a non-English
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