Re: Images partitioned right? Good USB drives? (Re: Woodhouse on flash storage)

2009-10-11 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: You can get the erase block size from SD cards - it's in the Card Specific Data structure - but I don't know of any standard way to get it for USB mass storage devices. Interesting! Did a bit of looking around but can't

Re: Images partitioned right? Good USB drives? (Re: Woodhouse on flash storage)

2009-10-10 Thread Sascha Silbe
On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 02:46:17AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: Nope (SoaS) - that'll waste your partition table in favour of whatever I copied from my dsd-inspired make-fake-device partition table script[1]. I'd love patches. From that script: NUM_HEADS=16 NUM_SECTORS_PER_TRACK=62 That

Re: Images partitioned right? Good USB drives? (Re: Woodhouse on flash storage)

2009-10-10 Thread Mitch Bradley
You can get the erase block size from SD cards - it's in the Card Specific Data structure - but I don't know of any standard way to get it for USB mass storage devices. Sascha Silbe wrote: On Sat, Oct 10, 2009 at 02:46:17AM +0100, Martin Dengler wrote: Nope (SoaS) - that'll waste your

Images partitioned right? Good USB drives? (Re: Woodhouse on flash storage)

2009-10-09 Thread S Page
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: b) If you must construct a fixed partition layout for use on multiple different devices, align each partition on at least a 4MiB boundary. That means that you waste 4M for the partition map (one 512-byte sector padded out to

Re: Images partitioned right? Good USB drives? (Re: Woodhouse on flash storage)

2009-10-09 Thread Tiago Marques
OCZ Rally 2 4GB has worked fine for me for a year now. If you go for the OCZ Rally 2 Turbo, it has higher random write speeds(faster boot, opening apps) but I'm not sure about reliabilty. OCZ has a good reputation for good reliability on most of it's products. Using an USB-SD adapter with one of

Re: Images partitioned right? Good USB drives? (Re: Woodhouse on flash storage)

2009-10-09 Thread Martin Dengler
On Fri, Oct 09, 2009 at 04:23:17PM -0700, S Page wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 3:10 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: b) If you must construct a fixed partition layout for use on multiple different devices, align each partition on at least a 4MiB boundary. That means that you waste

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-07 Thread John Watlington
Coincident with the industry-wide change to managed Flash is the change to smaller transistors and storing multiple data bits per cell (MLC, vs. SLC or single bit per cell). This has brought a huge increase in error rates, and a decrease in reliability and erase cycle lifetime. The bad news

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: time, I expect the situation to get better and better as the firmware that gets it right supplants the earlier tries. It's reassuring to hear that at least someone with your understanding of HW (and the industry around it)

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Tiago Marques
Trying to find datasheets of the flash chips to know what their erase block size and page size(and number of erase cycles) has been a nightmare for me, the manufacturer just doesn't care if your partitioning choice ends up sending the SSD/SD/MMC sooner than the warranty expires. Have you had the

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Mitch Bradley
Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:07 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: time, I expect the situation to get better and better as the firmware that gets it right supplants the earlier tries. It's reassuring to hear that at least someone with your understanding

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Mitch Bradley
Tiago Marques wrote: Trying to find datasheets of the flash chips to know what their erase block size and page size(and number of erase cycles) has been a nightmare for me, the manufacturer just doesn't care if your partitioning choice ends up sending the SSD/SD/MMC sooner than the warranty

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: To solve a hard problem to the level where you can ship the result requires money Not particularly controversial with me at least. The community is made of many interests, and the commercial interests are a significant part.

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Mitch Bradley
Martin Langhoff wrote: On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:27 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: To solve a hard problem to the level where you can ship the result requires money Not particularly controversial with me at least. The community is made of many interests, and the

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 12:43 PM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: The raw-access device will not be cheaper, because any possible (small) savings in silicon area will be overwhelmed by the lower-volume factor.  The managed-NAND  solution will lock in. Yes, that's what usually happens, and

Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-06 Thread Tiago Marques
-- Forwarded message -- From: Tiago Marques tiago...@gmail.com Date: Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 1:26 PM Subject: Re: Woodhouse on flash storage To: Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 11:10 AM, Mitch Bradley w...@laptop.org wrote: Tiago Marques wrote: Trying to find

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread Martin Dengler
On Sun, Oct 04, 2009 at 01:59:29PM -0400, Chris Ball wrote: http://www.advogato.org/person/dwmw2/diary/211.html Thanks for the links - it's nice to keep up with what's going on in the flash-expert world. How might the outcome of these debates affect the use of the microSD internal storage on

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread Chris Ball
Hi Martin, How might the outcome of these debates affect the use of the microSD internal storage on the XO-1.5? I don't think there's much we can use Dave's advice for given the choice of microSD. If a microSD card that had a passthrough mode to access the raw flash existed, his

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread Martin Langhoff
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: I don't think there's much we can use Dave's advice for given the choice of microSD.  If a microSD card that had a passthrough mode to access the raw flash existed, his argument would be that we should consider using that mode.

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread Peter Robinson
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: I don't think there's much we can use Dave's advice for given the choice of microSD.  If a microSD card that had a passthrough mode to access the

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread John Watlington
On Oct 5, 2009, at 11:56 AM, Peter Robinson wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:44 PM, Martin Langhoff martin.langh...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 5:27 PM, Chris Ball c...@laptop.org wrote: I don't think there's much we can use Dave's advice for given the choice of microSD. The fact

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread Chris Ball
Hi, http://www.advogato.org/person/dwmw2/diary/211.html Ah, and now cscott has written a post in reply: http://cananian.livejournal.com/58238.html - Chris, your personal RSS reader. -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel

Re: Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-05 Thread Mitch Bradley
David might be right in principle, but when component price matters, you have to buy the hardware that the mass market offers. Right now the sweet spot is smart devices with embedded Flash Translation Layer firmware. I'd place my bet on that trend continuing. Linux does not drive the mass

Woodhouse on flash storage

2009-10-04 Thread Chris Ball
http://www.advogato.org/person/dwmw2/diary/211.html -- Chris Ball c...@laptop.org One Laptop Per Child ___ Devel mailing list Devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/devel