is that the GWT
development tools are not *easily* buildable from source NOT what we build
with them.
Do you build javac from source before you use it? I doubt Toad does.
Ian.
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An
lly thought
people would welcome the possibility of fixing our UI, but all people have
done is throw obstacles in the way. This is why we can't have nice things.
Ian.
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An H
le Eclipse?
> In addition, also GWT creates javascript code, what about those users, who
> dont have or want to use javascript?
>
Those users are welcome to create a lynx friendly version of FProxy for
themselves, we need to focus on the majority of users who are happy to use
j
we are going to do
that we may as well switch to a proper framework like GWT (which Toad
already agrees we should do).
Ian.
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On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > Talk to any designer and ask
> > them if they can change a design through CSS alone and they'll think you
> are
> > joking, I promise.
>
> Perha
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:50 PM, Evan Daniel eva...@gmail.com wrote:
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 9:35 PM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:
Talk to any designer and ask
them if they can change a design through CSS alone and they'll think you
are
joking, I promise.
Perhaps many designers
, and if we are going to do
that we may as well switch to a proper framework like GWT (which Toad
already agrees we should do).
Ian.
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?
In addition, also GWT creates javascript code, what about those users, who
dont have or want to use javascript?
Those users are welcome to create a lynx friendly version of FProxy for
themselves, we need to focus on the majority of users who are happy to use
javascript.
Ian.
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CEO
. I actually thought
people would welcome the possibility of fixing our UI, but all people have
done is throw obstacles in the way. This is why we can't have nice things.
Ian.
--
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Email: i...@sensearray.com
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development tools are not *easily* buildable from source NOT what we build
with them.
Do you build javac from source before you use it? I doubt Toad does.
Ian.
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On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 9:38 AM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:
So the simple reality here is that if we want to fix Freenet's UI any time
soon, it has got to be a fresh start and its got to be GWT.
Ok, Pupok says that there is another possibility, which would be to use
Dojo, a Javascript
don't have with GWT or Dojo.
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On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 10:02 AM, Ximin Luo xl...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
On 02/13/2010 03:38 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
She can and will not do this if she has to work with FProxy because
FProxy
is an ungodly mess, and her expertise is with GWT.
I think really the main issue is switching out FProxy
has proposed that she could also use Dojo, although she isn't
as familiar with it as GWT, and it should be able to degrade gracefully.
Ian.
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of it as
Good
UIs are designed starting from the user's needs, and working backwards
taken
to the extreme)
She can probably build the front of a back-end.
Ian.
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for the rest of eternity.
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! The point of the web site is,
quite precisely, that you can do CSS based design.
You are confusing graphic design with user interface design. CSS lets you
do a lot with the graphic design, but very little with the actual
functionality of the user interface.
Ian.
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ies, and I don't think there is any advantage to
> > pretending that this isn't the case.
>
> I disagree.
>
A decade of web framework design disagrees with you.
Ian.
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On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Evan Daniel wrote:
> It's simply that I don't think this discussion is going anywhere
> productive.
>
I agree.
Ian.
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On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 12:15 AM, Evan Daniel eva...@gmail.com wrote:
It's simply that I don't think this discussion is going anywhere
productive.
I agree.
Ian.
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On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Matthew Toseland t...@amphibian.dyndns.org
wrote:
On Friday 12 February 2010 03:17:16 Ian Clarke wrote:
You're suggesting that we dramatically increase the amount of work
involved
in creating any new UI to cater to the irrationally paranoid. I don't
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> >> Really? I don't see much functionality that fits that description.
> >> Sure, the advanced mode config and stats pages get rather long. But
> >
e a working
UI is ridiculous. Static wireframes are a very common way to present an
initial draft of a UI, and most people have no trouble using a little
imagination to form an opinion on it. Most user interfaces are at a very
late stage of the design process before you can actually interact with them.
; I
> figured I'd keep quiet while those that have ideas and opinions voice
> them. Don't worry, when I have something I think is productive to
> add, I'll do so.
Well, did you like the original PDF I posted? Do you think its the right
direction? Is there anything in it you would have done
nything other than
feedback on the proposed redesign. Certainly she has absolutely no interest
in getting involved in a meta-debate like this one. I'll try to persuade
her to chime in, but if you actually had specific questions for her it may
help.
Ian.
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Email: ia
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:22 PM, xor wrote:
> On Wednesday 10 February 2010 17:46:31 Ian Clarke wrote:
> > What is the benefit of doing a purge? I hope you're not doing it just
> > because you said you would, rather than for some concrete technical
> reason.
>
>
>
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> > I'm sorry if it appears that way, but this has been discussed
> > on-and-off for quite a long time. Normally stuff only gets done with
> > Freenet when someon
hing to that effect.
Right, and we could do a search and replace on words to make it politer,
here are some suggestions:
"wrong" -> "not entirely correct"
"bug" -> "unintentional feature"
"stupid" -> "not completely in agreemen
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Evan Daniel wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> I think having professional UI design help on Freenet would be
> wonderful. ?It's obviously something most of us are bad at.
>
> Is she going to be available to s
her things to design a code framework for it.
I don't expect Toad to do the UI, although he may need to help with
wiring it into the codebase.
Ian.
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for it.
I don't expect Toad to do the UI, although he may need to help with
wiring it into the codebase.
Ian.
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On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:25 AM, Evan Daniel eva...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 8:52 AM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:
I think having professional UI design help on Freenet would be
wonderful. It's obviously something most of us are bad at.
Is she going to be available
and replace on words to make it politer,
here are some suggestions:
wrong - not entirely correct
bug - unintentional feature
stupid - not completely in agreement
;-)
Ian.
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Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 11:38 AM, Evan Daniel eva...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:45 AM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:
I'm sorry if it appears that way, but this has been discussed
on-and-off for quite a long time. Normally stuff only gets done with
Freenet when someone
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 1:22 PM, xor x...@gmx.li wrote:
On Wednesday 10 February 2010 17:46:31 Ian Clarke wrote:
What is the benefit of doing a purge? I hope you're not doing it just
because you said you would, rather than for some concrete technical
reason.
To get rid of all the mess
help.
Ian.
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is
insufficient for us to form an opinion. Others are criticizing me for
being dictatorial and moving too fast.
Ian.
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actually interact with them.
Ian.
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On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 9:48 PM, Evan Daniel eva...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Feb 11, 2010 at 10:17 PM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:
Really? I don't see much functionality that fits that description.
Sure, the advanced mode config and stats pages get rather long. But
surely
hard to grasp,
> such as looking at it from the user's point of view, de-junking, and so on.
> Dieppe posted a page about that a while back.
>
Understanding and applying are two different things.
Ian.
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Email: ian at sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 35
UARAjUzAKDM5/t9As54apLCZn5wpnKq8mvNlwCeJp7Y
> wjHYZba2lO6njpCW67YhJR8=
> =HuWW
> -END PGP SIGNATURE-
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echnical reason.
Ian.
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to implement it if it should be new?
>
Pupok created the mockups, and she has experience building GUIs in GWT. The
plan is that she will build an initial front-end, but others may need to
wire it into Freenet, and flesh out the initial work.
Ian.
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Email: ian at sensearray
it if it should be new?
Pupok created the mockups, and she has experience building GUIs in GWT. The
plan is that she will build an initial front-end, but others may need to
wire it into Freenet, and flesh out the initial work.
Ian.
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.
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, and so on.
Dieppe posted a page about that a while back.
Understanding and applying are two different things.
Ian.
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On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:20 PM, xor wrote:
> On Saturday 06 February 2010 23:16:20 Ian Clarke wrote:
> > On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:03 PM, xor wrote:
> > > New UI? Huh? What is it supposed to be? A fproxy theme?
> >
> > No, it will be based on GWT, and
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Matthew Toseland
wrote:
> On Monday 08 February 2010 21:49:37 Ian Clarke wrote:
> > I think by "casual" we are referring to people who want to search for and
> > retrieve content, upload and share content, and participate in
> discussion
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 8:22 AM, Matthew Toseland
t...@amphibian.dyndns.orgwrote:
On Monday 08 February 2010 21:49:37 Ian Clarke wrote:
I think by casual we are referring to people who want to search for and
retrieve content, upload and share content, and participate in
discussions.
We
On Tue, Feb 9, 2010 at 4:20 PM, xor x...@gmx.li wrote:
On Saturday 06 February 2010 23:16:20 Ian Clarke wrote:
On Sat, Feb 6, 2010 at 1:03 PM, xor x...@gmx.li wrote:
New UI? Huh? What is it supposed to be? A fproxy theme?
No, it will be based on GWT, and it will run along-side FProxy
r and
working backwards. FProxy was designed more-or-less from the back forward.
Ian.
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-or-less from the back forward.
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ather than the other way around (which is more-or-less
how FProxy came about).
Ian.
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(which is more-or-less
how FProxy came about).
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or require
functionality not provided by the new UI.
The new UI will also provide a front-end for FreeTalk, although this is not
shown in the mock-up. Similarly, it will provide access to settings, but
only those likely to be useful to "casual" users.
Feedback is welcome of course.
Ian.
list
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.
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, as it is it looks rather untidy.
Ian.
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remain
as close to a stock Ubuntu install as possible.
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;
I doubt your concern is justified, nothing we are talking about is likely to
be resource intensive so far as I can see. Remember, half a gig of RAM used
to be a lot!
We do need to keep an eye on data transfer just to ensure we aren't hit by
any nasty surprises.
Ian.
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.
I doubt your concern is justified, nothing we are talking about is likely to
be resource intensive so far as I can see. Remember, half a gig of RAM used
to be a lot!
We do need to keep an eye on data transfer just to ensure we aren't hit by
any nasty surprises.
Ian.
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k
announcements group on the front page of Freenet.
Ian.
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.
Ian.
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Ok, just noticed that there is a check box for "Compress", but it
seems to have no effect when you upload directly from disk (perhaps it
works if you upload from the browser - but I'm not going to do that
for a file this size).
Ian.
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Ian Clarke wr
and it uses 100% of your CPU for several hours
trying to compress something that is probably incompressible.
Ian.
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and it uses 100% of your CPU for several hours
trying to compress something that is probably incompressible.
Ian.
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Ok, just noticed that there is a check box for Compress, but it
seems to have no effect when you upload directly from disk (perhaps it
works if you upload from the browser - but I'm not going to do that
for a file this size).
Ian.
On Sun, Jan 24, 2010 at 7:01 PM, Ian Clarke i...@sensearray.com
e just
discouraging potentially valuable contributions to the site by making the
whole thing so awkward and bureaucratic.
Ian.
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<ht
to the site by making the
whole thing so awkward and bureaucratic.
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Once again, JetBrains has kindly provided an open source license to the
project for Freenet development. If you would like access to this, please
email me off-list (but remember its only for Freenet work).
Ian.
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Once again, JetBrains has kindly provided an open source license to the
project for Freenet development. If you would like access to this, please
email me off-list (but remember its only for Freenet work).
Ian.
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On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Toseland
wrote:
> On Tuesday 05 January 2010 01:35:19 Ian Clarke wrote:
>> 2010/1/4 Cl?ment Vollet
>>
>> > Since the official english wiki is being moved to sourceforge, can we also
>> > put
>> > the french wiki
On Fri, Jan 8, 2010 at 6:09 PM, Matthew Toseland
t...@amphibian.dyndns.org wrote:
On Tuesday 05 January 2010 01:35:19 Ian Clarke wrote:
2010/1/4 Clément Vollet cvol...@gmail.com
Since the official english wiki is being moved to sourceforge, can we also
put
the french wiki there too
ng on a mock-up of a new UI. Initially she is
making it as close in appearance to Google and its related tools as
possible, for simplicity and familiarity.
Watch this space,
Ian.
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We will experience 10-15 minutes of Emu downtime at some point over
the next day or two to replace some faulty RAM, so if the website goes
down - don't panic unless its for significantly more than 15 minutes.
Ian.
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We will experience 10-15 minutes of Emu downtime at some point over
the next day or two to replace some faulty RAM, so if the website goes
down - don't panic unless its for significantly more than 15 minutes.
Ian.
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is working on a mock-up of a new UI. Initially she is
making it as close in appearance to Google and its related tools as
possible, for simplicity and familiarity.
Watch this space,
Ian.
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.
Potentially far better, and more democratic than the current approach
on the Internet where a centrally controlled monopoly limits access to
domain registration by making it expensive, and its
first-come-first-serve.
Ian.
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.
Potentially far better, and more democratic than the current approach
on the Internet where a centrally controlled monopoly limits access to
domain registration by making it expensive, and its
first-come-first-serve.
Ian.
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Ah, it seems that the ant file doesn't pull down other dependencies
(I'm used to working with Maven). Where should I put them?
Ian.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Ian Clarke wrote:
> I got build errors, see http://gist.github.com/273552
>
> Ian.
>
> On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:3
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Ah, it seems that the ant file doesn't pull down other dependencies
(I'm used to working with Maven). Where should I put them?
Ian.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 9:00 AM, Ian Clarke i...@locut.us wrote:
I got build errors, see http://gist.github.com/273552
Ian.
On Sun, Jan 10, 2010 at 5:35 AM
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ot really received more reports about
> them. If you have the feeling that it still does not work for you, please
> tell me.
>
> Greetings, xor
> ___
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> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mail
not work for you, please
tell me.
Greetings, xor
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Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: i...@sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
ewhere,
perhaps to emu (our own server). If so, you'll be welcome to migrate the
french version there too.
Ian.
--
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: ian at sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 10:57 AM, Christian Funder Sommerlund (Zero3) <
lists at zero3.dk> wrote:
> Ian Clarke skrev:
> > Well, the obvious thing would be to host it on Emu, I was under the
> > vague impression that this was the plan but I must confess that I wasn't
>
g it.
>
And I'm glad you did, I really think you are overreacting here - all I did
was report a problem (while expressing some frustration with sourceforge who
really should have learned how to build a usable website by now, they've
been around long enough).
Perhaps you felt that my frustration wa
On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Ximin Luo wrote:
> Ian Clarke wrote:
> > Case in point, the link below takes me to a login page, where I'm asked
> for
> > an OpenID account, which I obediently provide, but no-matter what I do,
> > nothing I try seems to take me to the w
iki is far worse than what we already have at
wiki.freenetproject.org.
Tell me I'm wrong, but don't get mad at me simply for making an observation.
Ian.
--
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: ian at sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
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<
vs
> on it, so just give a shout (IRC probably quickest) and we'll give you
> access.
>
> X
> ___
> Devl mailing list
> Devl at freenetproject.org
> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
>
--
Ia
access.
X
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--
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: i...@sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
___
Devl
at
wiki.freenetproject.org.
Tell me I'm wrong, but don't get mad at me simply for making an observation.
Ian.
--
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: i...@sensearray.com
Ph: +1 512 422 3588
___
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Devl@freenetproject.org
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On Mon, Jan 4, 2010 at 9:55 AM, Ximin Luo xl...@cam.ac.uk wrote:
Ian Clarke wrote:
Case in point, the link below takes me to a login page, where I'm asked
for
an OpenID account, which I obediently provide, but no-matter what I do,
nothing I try seems to take me to the wiki.
Whoops, you
some frustration with sourceforge who
really should have learned how to build a usable website by now, they've
been around long enough).
Perhaps you felt that my frustration was directed at you rather than
sourceforge, this was not my intention.
Ian.
--
Ian Clarke
CEO, SenseArray
Email: i
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