Re: TDPL draft updated on Safari Rough Cuts

2009-12-02 Thread Denis Koroskin
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:08:39 +0300, Andrei Alexandrescu seewebsiteforem...@erdani.org wrote: After a very long delay, Safari finally updated the TDPL draft on their Rough Cuts service (http://my.safaribooksonline.com/roughcuts). They claim things will be back to normal now, and that

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Pelle Månsson
Walter Bright wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: I guess D can greatly benefit from a compiler that can compile and run a multiple-files program with one command dmd a b c -run args... Can we have dmd -resolve-deps-and-run main.d I use rdmd when I can, but it doesn't manage to link C-libs in

Re: Phobos packages a bit confusing

2009-12-02 Thread Pelle Månsson
retard wrote: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 08:38:29 +0100, Pelle Månsson wrote: retard wrote: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 18:58:25 -0500, bearophile wrote: Rainer Deyke: open by itself is ambiguous. What are you opening? A window? A network port? I think the word file needs to be in there somewhere to

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Pelle Månsson wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: I guess D can greatly benefit from a compiler that can compile and run a multiple-files program with one command dmd a b c -run args... Can we have dmd -resolve-deps-and-run main.d I use rdmd when I can, but it doesn't

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Pelle Månsson
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Pelle Månsson wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: I guess D can greatly benefit from a compiler that can compile and run a multiple-files program with one command dmd a b c -run args... Can we have dmd -resolve-deps-and-run main.d I use rdmd

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Don
retard wrote: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 12:40:21 -0500, Steven Schveighoffer wrote: On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:58:43 -0500, Denis Koroskin 2kor...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 19:41:46 +0300, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 11:20:06 -0500, Denis Koroskin

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Lutger
Leandro Lucarella wrote: I guess D can greatly benefit from a compiler that can compile and run a multiple-files program with one command (AFAIK rdmd only support one file programs, right?) and an interactive console that can get the ddoc documentation on the fly. But that's not very

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Lutger
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: I'm amazed that virtually nobody uses rdmd. I can hardly fathom how I managed to make-do without it. Andrei rdmd is a life saver, I use it all the time.

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Lars T. Kyllingstad
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 1 de diciembre a las 13:45 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: I develop twice as fast in Python than in D. Of course this is only me, but that's where I think Python is better than D :) If that is not just because

Re: inheriting constructos

2009-12-02 Thread Ary Borenszweig
Michel Fortin wrote: On 2009-11-30 18:45:38 -0500, Ary Borenszweig a...@esperanto.org.ar said: Nick Sabalausky wrote: Ary Borenszweig a...@esperanto.org.ar wrote in message news:hf03ps$lk...@digitalmars.com... Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: c) If a class doesn't define any constructors but does

Re: Phobos packages a bit confusing

2009-12-02 Thread Rainer Deyke
Pelle Månsson wrote: Rainer Deyke wrote: open by itself is ambiguous. What are you opening? A window? A network port? I think the word file needs to be in there somewhere to disambiguate. Something like new BufferedReader(new FileReader(foo.txt))? It's quite unambiguous. No, like

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Michal Minich
Hello retard, Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:24:01 -0800, Walter Bright wrote: dsimcha wrote: My biggest gripe about static verification is that it can't help you at all with high-level logic/algorithmic errors, only lower level coding errors. Good unit tests (and good asserts), on the other hand,

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Denis Koroskin
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 00:01:41 +0300, Bill Baxter wbax...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 12:38 PM, Steven Schveighoffer schvei...@yahoo.com wrote: On Tue, 01 Dec 2009 15:06:27 -0500, Pelle Månsson pelle.mans...@gmail.com wrote: Steven Schveighoffer wrote: Isn't opBinary almost

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
retard wrote: Tue, 01 Dec 2009 14:24:01 -0800, Walter Bright wrote: Unit tests have their limitations as well. Unit tests cannot prove a function is pure, for example. Sure, unit tests can't prove that. Both unit tests and static verification are needed. But it doesn't lead to this

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
retard wrote: The thing is, nowadays when all development should follow the principles of clean code (book), agile, and tdd/bdd, this cannot happen. You write tests first, then the production code. They say that writing tests and code takes less time than writing only the more or less buggy

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread retard
Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:16:58 -0800, Walter Bright wrote: retard wrote: The thing is, nowadays when all development should follow the principles of clean code (book), agile, and tdd/bdd, this cannot happen. You write tests first, then the production code. They say that writing tests and code

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Lars T. Kyllingstad
retard wrote: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 03:16:58 -0800, Walter Bright wrote: retard wrote: The thing is, nowadays when all development should follow the principles of clean code (book), agile, and tdd/bdd, this cannot happen. You write tests first, then the production code. They say that writing tests

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread retard
Wed, 02 Dec 2009 13:12:58 +0100, Lars T. Kyllingstad wrote: std.conv.to() to the rescue! :) import std.conv; ... row[] a = sql_engine.execute(select * from foobar;).result; int b = to!int(a[0][0]); // Throws if conversions fail string c = to!string(a[0][1]);

Unification

2009-12-02 Thread Zexx
Have you heard of language called Vala? They came to the same idea - C# is a scripting language for web apps, but it's not suitable for demanding applications. I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left

Re: Unification

2009-12-02 Thread Frank Bolton
Zexx Wrote: I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately, Microsoft responded by buying shares of Borland, made them go NET

Re: Unification

2009-12-02 Thread Zexx
Yeah, they do. Ever tried using it? :) Frank Bolton Wrote: Zexx Wrote: I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual Studio 6. Unfortunately,

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread dsimcha
== Quote from retard (r...@tard.com.invalid)'s article I thought D was supposed to be a practical language for real world problems. This 'D is good because everything can and must be written in D' is beginning to sound like a religion. You're missing the point. Mixing languages always adds

Re: Unification

2009-12-02 Thread Frank Bolton
Zexx Wrote: Yeah, they do. Ever tried using it? :) Frank Bolton Wrote: Zexx Wrote: I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE that left competitors in dust. Especiall Microsoft's pityful Visual

Re: Unification

2009-12-02 Thread yigal chripun
Zexx Wrote: Have you heard of language called Vala? They came to the same idea - C# is a scripting language for web apps, but it's not suitable for demanding applications. I myself used Delphi for a long time because Object Pascal provided me with all the modern features and modern IDE

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Don
Bill Baxter wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Don nos...@nospam.com wrote: Bill Baxter wrote: On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:18 AM, Lutger lutger.blijdest...@gmail.com wrote: Ary Borenszweig wrote: The feature isn't very dynamic since the dispatch rules are defined statically. The only thing

Re: Phobos packages a bit confusing

2009-12-02 Thread bearophile
retard: Also IIRC Python has built-in print() command. What if I want to redefine this to mean printing to a graphical quake like game console. In Python3 there is a built-in print function, that is a reference to a callable object. So you just need to redefine it, like this: def print(...):

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread bearophile
Walter Bright: But with mechanical checking, you can guarantee certain things. Usually what mechanical checking guarantee is not even vaguely enough, and such guarantee aren't even about the most important parts :-) Unit tests are more important, because they cover things that matter more.

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread bearophile
dsimcha: because Python's builtin arrays are too slow. Python lists are not badly implemented, it's the interpreter that's slow (*). Python built-in arrays (lists) are dynamically typed, so they are less efficient but more flexible. NumPy arrays are the opposite. So as usual with data

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Michal Minich
Hello bearophile, But in dynamic code you don't almost never assert that a variable is an int; you assert that 'a' is able to do its work where it's used. So 'a' can often be an int, decimal, a multiprecision long, a GMP multiprecision, or maybe even a float. What you care of it not what a is

Re: Unification

2009-12-02 Thread Jesse Phillips
Zexx Wrote: The creators of D and Vala know why they created it. Maybe there are other similar projects. But why work separately? There's no chance for success when working like that. It looks to me as though this should be asked of the Vala devs. Vala does have a different goal than that

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello dsimcha, My biggest gripe about static verification is that it can't help you at all with high-level logic/algorithmic errors, only lower level coding errors. Good unit tests (and good asserts), on the other hand, are invaluable for finding and debugging high-level logic and algorithmic

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello Denis, What if you don't know argument names a-priori? Consider a generic Dynamic class that has nothing but a single opDispatch method. you can do whatever logic you want, even (I think) aliasing the function template opDispatch(string s) { static if(WhateverLogicYouNeed!(s))

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello Leandro, If you say dynamic languages don't have metaprogramming capabilities, you just don't have any idea of what a dynamic language really is. If you say you can do metaprogramming at runtime you just don't have any idea of what I want to do with metaprogramming. For example:

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread dsimcha
== Quote from BCS (n...@anon.com)'s article Hello dsimcha, My biggest gripe about static verification is that it can't help you at all with high-level logic/algorithmic errors, only lower level coding errors. Good unit tests (and good asserts), on the other hand, are invaluable for

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Steven Schveighoffer
On Wed, 02 Dec 2009 02:22:01 -0500, retard r...@tard.com.invalid wrote: You don't seem to have any idea what the term 'dynamic' means. From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_programming_language I'm sure the first person who suggested C++ templates were a functional language was shown

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello dsimcha, == Quote from BCS (n...@anon.com)'s article I don't have a link or anything but I remember hearing about a study MS did about finding bugs and what they found is that every reasonably effective tool they looked at found the same amount of bugs (ok, within shouting distance,

TDPL draft updated on Safari Rough Cuts

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
After a very long delay, Safari finally updated the TDPL draft on their Rough Cuts service (http://my.safaribooksonline.com/roughcuts). They claim things will be back to normal now, and that another update (containing almost the entire book) is due in a week. Andrei

Re: Tagging

2009-12-02 Thread klickverbot
Sean Kelly wrote: It's easier because it could be built into the Druntime/Phobos makefiles and not rely on a release script or manual effort to actually happen. Are you saying that a SVN one-liner once per release requires too much effort on Walter's side? Apart from that, I don't quite see

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?query_format=specificorder=relevance+descbug_status=__open__product=content= and the d bug list with 1,403 open

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
BCS, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:37 me escribiste: Hello Leandro, If you say dynamic languages don't have metaprogramming capabilities, you just don't have any idea of what a dynamic language really is. If you say you can do metaprogramming at runtime you just don't have any idea of

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Leandro Lucarella, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:53 me escribiste: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello Leandro, BCS, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:37 me escribiste: Hello Leandro, If you say dynamic languages don't have metaprogramming capabilities, you just don't have any idea of what a dynamic language really is. If you say you can do metaprogramming at runtime you just don't have

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Don
Leandro Lucarella wrote: BCS, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:37 me escribiste: Hello Leandro, If you say dynamic languages don't have metaprogramming capabilities, you just don't have any idea of what a dynamic language really is. If you say you can do metaprogramming at runtime you just

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Leandro Lucarella, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:53 me escribiste: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Don
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Leandro Lucarella, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:53 me escribiste: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Don
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread retard
Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:16:28 +, BCS wrote: Hello Leandro, Again *optimization*. How many times should I say that I agree that D is better than almost every dynamic languages if you need speed? I'm not arguing on that point. What I'm arguing is that (at least for me) the primary

Struct opCall

2009-12-02 Thread Adam D. Ruppe
I've been working on making std.variant work seamlessly with delegates the last day and a half - the last piece to making std.javascript_in_d :) and am almost there - just have one thing that I either haven't solved or adequately worked around* so far: opCall. The spec says that static opCall is

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
BCS, el 2 de diciembre a las 21:16 me escribiste: Hello Leandro, BCS, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:37 me escribiste: Hello Leandro, If you say dynamic languages don't have metaprogramming capabilities, you just don't have any idea of what a dynamic language really is. If you say you

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Eldar Insafutdinov
Leandro Lucarella Wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Don, el 2 de diciembre a las 22:20 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: BCS, el 2 de diciembre a las 17:37 me escribiste: Hello Leandro, If you say dynamic languages don't have metaprogramming capabilities, you just don't have any idea of what a dynamic language really is. If you

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread retard
Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:48:14 +0100, Don wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 13:29 me escribiste: I'd like to compare the user base and calculate the bugs/users ratio. I guess GCC's would be orders of magnitude smaller. And BTW, GCC implements 7 languages (at least 7 languages are present as bugzilla components: ada, c, c++,

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Andrei Alexandrescu, el 2 de diciembre a las 13:03 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: Phobos packages a bit confusing

2009-12-02 Thread Jérôme M. Berger
Rainer Deyke wrote: Pelle Månsson wrote: Rainer Deyke wrote: open by itself is ambiguous. What are you opening? A window? A network port? I think the word file needs to be in there somewhere to disambiguate. Something like new BufferedReader(new FileReader(foo.txt))? It's quite

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Don wrote: Interesting question. It'll be some kind of binomial distibution, I imagine. The more users you have, the higher the fraction of the total number of bugs that you find. Bug reports ought to follow a logistic curve: a small number of bugs means that you have very few users, or that

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 13:29 me escribiste: I'd like to compare the user base and calculate the bugs/users ratio. I guess GCC's would be orders of magnitude smaller. And BTW, GCC implements 7 languages (at least 7 languages are present as bugzilla

Input ranges do not compose

2009-12-02 Thread Sergey Gromov
Say I want to present a file as an input range: class RangeFile { bool empty() {...} ubyte front() {...} void popFront() {...} // some private stuff } I'm parsing it. There are chunks, one byte for size then data of that size: void parse(RangeFile rf) { while (!rf.empty) {

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Sergey Gromov
BCS wrote: I'm not arguing on that point. What I'm arguing is that (at least for me) the primary advantages of metaprogramming are static checks (for non-perf benefits) and performance. Both of these must be done at compile time. Runtime metaprogramming just seems pointless *to me.* One of

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello Leandro, Don, el 2 de diciembre a las 22:20 me escribiste: They are metaprogramming tasks. Dynamic languages can do some metaprogramming tasks. They can't do those ones. Because they make no sense, I really don't know how to put it. If you need speed, you code in C/C++/D whatever.

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread BCS
Hello Sergey, BCS wrote: I'm not arguing on that point. What I'm arguing is that (at least for me) the primary advantages of metaprogramming are static checks (for non-perf benefits) and performance. Both of these must be done at compile time. Runtime metaprogramming just seems pointless *to

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Bill Baxter
On Wed, Dec 2, 2009 at 3:26 PM, BCS n...@anon.com wrote: Hello Sergey, BCS wrote: I'm not arguing on that point. What I'm arguing is that (at least for me) the primary advantages of metaprogramming are static checks (for non-perf benefits) and performance. Both of these must be done at

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
retard wrote: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:16:28 +, BCS wrote: Hello Leandro, Again *optimization*. How many times should I say that I agree that D is better than almost every dynamic languages if you need speed? I'm not arguing on that point. What I'm arguing is that (at least for me) the

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Eldar Insafutdinov wrote: Leandro Lucarella Wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list with 5,442 open issues:

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 13:29 me escribiste: I'd like to compare the user base and calculate the bugs/users ratio. I guess GCC's would be orders of magnitude smaller. And BTW, GCC implements 7 languages (at least 7 languages are present as bugzilla

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu, el 2 de diciembre a las 13:03 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 12:23 me escribiste: l8night wrote: Too many bugs - no way my superiors allow some program with that bug list Here's the gcc bug list

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread retard
Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:00:50 -0800, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: retard wrote: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:16:28 +, BCS wrote: Hello Leandro, Again *optimization*. How many times should I say that I agree that D is better than almost every dynamic languages if you need speed? I'm not arguing on

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
retard wrote: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 16:00:50 -0800, Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: retard wrote: Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:16:28 +, BCS wrote: Hello Leandro, Again *optimization*. How many times should I say that I agree that D is better than almost every dynamic languages if you need speed? I'm not

Breaking compatibilyt hurts

2009-12-02 Thread Jesse Phillips
This has come up as one issue for adoption to D. D2.x is on its way, unstable, and D1.x is getting the ax. While Walter has said that the compiler will continue to get support, no one in the community knows what the library support will be like. I came across an article where even Python wasn't

Re: Input ranges do not compose

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Sergey Gromov wrote: Say I want to present a file as an input range: class RangeFile { bool empty() {...} ubyte front() {...} void popFront() {...} // some private stuff } I'm parsing it. There are chunks, one byte for size then data of that size: void parse(RangeFile rf) {

Re: Input ranges do not compose

2009-12-02 Thread Sergey Gromov
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: Sergey Gromov wrote: There are actually two issues: 1. Most of the std.algorithm and std.range functions claim that they accept input ranges but take them *by value*. This violates input ranges' non-copyable contract. 2. A whole bunch of algorithms is required

Re: dynamic classes and duck typing

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Leandro Lucarella wrote: Bubble sort is perfeclty acceptable for, say, a 100 elements array. It always depends on the context, of course, but when doing programs that deals with small data sets and are mostly IO bounded, you *really* can care less about performance and big-O. The thing

Providing feedback for submitted patches [was: new version]

2009-12-02 Thread Leandro Lucarella
Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 14:46 me escribiste: Leandro Lucarella wrote: Walter Bright, el 2 de diciembre a las 13:29 me escribiste: I'd like to compare the user base and calculate the bugs/users ratio. I guess GCC's would be orders of magnitude smaller. And BTW, GCC implements

Re: Breaking compatibilyt hurts

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Jesse Phillips wrote: This has come up as one issue for adoption to D. D2.x is on its way, unstable, and D1.x is getting the ax. While Walter has said that the compiler will continue to get support, no one in the community knows what the library support will be like. I came across an article

Re: Providing feedback for submitted patches [was: new version]

2009-12-02 Thread Simen kjaeraas
Leandro Lucarella llu...@gmail.com wrote: Maybe you could comment on patches, and tell people how to fix them to be accepted, that help a lot when you're willing to contribute. It's really frustrating when you make a patch and it's not accepted (or delayed) and you don't know why. This way

Re: Breaking compatibilyt hurts

2009-12-02 Thread Jesse Phillips
Walter Bright wrote: One of the comments in there: One of the greatest problems I found when trying Common Lisp was the large number of implementations and the disorganization of the library space. It is hard for a newcomer to decide which libraries are available, which are maintained,

Re: Breaking compatibilyt hurts

2009-12-02 Thread torhu
On 03.12.2009 1:13, Jesse Phillips wrote: This has come up as one issue for adoption to D. D2.x is on its way, unstable, and D1.x is getting the ax. While Walter has said that the compiler will continue to get support, no one in the community knows what the library support will be like. I

AMD Performance Profiling Without the Overhead - perhaps of interest to the D community.

2009-12-02 Thread Nick B
This is quite an interesting feature with a very good design that AMD is introducing. I could be worthwhile adding support for this, in the D programming language ! Introduction: Performance Profiling Without the Overhead Here at AMD, we know that in order to improve program

D piggyback style - is popularity really what D wants? If so...

2009-12-02 Thread Clay Smith
Disclaimer: Within a finite amount of time, I wrote this quickly, fully explaining the finer details would take a lonnng time ;) Concise Summary: D language popularity can increase dramatically if: * C++ support is improved * D is ported to .Net * D is ported to JVM * Driver-run grassroots

Intel Threading building blocks for C++

2009-12-02 Thread Nick B
See http://www.threadingbuildingblocks.org/ Does any know anything about the library ? This library seems to do a lot of things that this community whats to do with D, although it is written in C++. It seems to allow the user to write code that will run of multiple cores Any downside or

should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
If a function throws a class inheriting Error but not Exception (i.e. an unrecoverable error), then the postcondition doesn't need to be satisfied. I just realized that postconditions, however, must be satisfied if the function throws an Exception-derived object. There is no more return

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: If a function throws a class inheriting Error but not Exception (i.e. an unrecoverable error), then the postcondition doesn't need to be satisfied. I just realized that postconditions, however, must be satisfied if the function throws an Exception-derived object.

Re: D piggyback style - is popularity really what D wants? If so...

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Clay Smith wrote: * D is ported to .Net Cristian Vlasceanu already ported D to .NET.

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Andrei Alexandrescu
Walter Bright wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: If a function throws a class inheriting Error but not Exception (i.e. an unrecoverable error), then the postcondition doesn't need to be satisfied. I just realized that postconditions, however, must be satisfied if the function throws an

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Brad Roberts
Walter Bright wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: If a function throws a class inheriting Error but not Exception (i.e. an unrecoverable error), then the postcondition doesn't need to be satisfied. I just realized that postconditions, however, must be satisfied if the function throws an

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: An exception (not an Error) is an expected and documented outcome of a function. After having listened to those endless Boeing stories, please listen to this one :o). Contract Programming covers the correctness of a program, and exceptions are correct behavior. By

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Brad Roberts
Walter Bright wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: An exception (not an Error) is an expected and documented outcome of a function. After having listened to those endless Boeing stories, please listen to this one :o). Contract Programming covers the correctness of a program, and exceptions are

Re: Breaking compatibilyt hurts

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Jesse Phillips wrote: Well, part of the problem is that you can use all of those arguments against D (That includes the complaint about Lisp). Maybe not if you just look at D1 or just D2, and many times the complaints aren't as big an issue as they are made out to be once you start using the

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Brad Roberts wrote: Walter Bright wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: An exception (not an Error) is an expected and documented outcome of a function. After having listened to those endless Boeing stories, please listen to this one :o). Contract Programming covers the correctness of a program,

Re: D piggyback style - is popularity really what D wants? If so...

2009-12-02 Thread Chad J
Clay Smith wrote: ... * D is ported to JVM http://da.vidr.cc/projects/lljvm/ Of course this doesn't mean it exists, but may just be a good lead for someone who wants to make it happen. Just make ldc use this, and eventually write java library backends for the std libs.

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Rory McGuire
Walter Bright newshou...@digitalmars.com wrote: Andrei Alexandrescu wrote: If a function throws a class inheriting Error but not Exception (i.e. an unrecoverable error), then the postcondition doesn't need to be satisfied. I just realized that postconditions, however, must be satisfied if

Re: new version

2009-12-02 Thread l8night
hi, gcc is widely used for a long time and everybody knows it has bug. it seems like a case, that is regulated by the fda. if a software is used more than 25 time it is regarded as being validated. this is not the case here and everybody perceives d as being utterly new, even if it is

Re: should postconditions be evaluated even if Exception is thrown?

2009-12-02 Thread Walter Bright
Rory McGuire wrote: I would think that if a method in a class throws then at least the class' invariant should be run? does it? No.

Accessing this.outer at compile time?

2009-12-02 Thread Simen kjaeraas
Simplified test case: class foo { class bar { pragma( msg, typeof( this.outer ).stringof ); } } Test.d(3): Error: variable this forward referenced While I understand I cannot do any operations on this.outer, getting its type and reacting to that ought to be within the realms of

out of memory error with template mixins

2009-12-02 Thread Saaa
I was trying out composite oriented programming, meaning moving class functionality into templates which you then mixin. First part mixined just fine, second also ok, third . . - Error : Out of memory (2GB VM) Even with an empty template :(

[Issue 3564] New: Rdmd failing to link external C libraries

2009-12-02 Thread d-bugmail
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3564 Summary: Rdmd failing to link external C libraries Product: D Version: 2.034 Platform: x86 OS/Version: Linux Status: NEW Severity: normal Priority: P2

[Issue 3565] New: rdmd --man doesn't work on Windows

2009-12-02 Thread d-bugmail
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3565 Summary: rdmd --man doesn't work on Windows Product: D Version: 2.036 Platform: Other OS/Version: Windows Status: NEW Severity: normal Priority: P2

[Issue 3481] PATCH: opPow(), x ^^ y as a power operator

2009-12-02 Thread d-bugmail
http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=3481 to...@yahoo.com changed: What|Removed |Added CC||to...@yahoo.com --- Comment #12 from

  1   2   >