Jan Bassez wrote:
Cor Nouws schreef:
Hi Uwe,
Uwe Fischer wrote:
a very good list of Pro's and Con's of OpenOffice.org and open source
software.
Thanks (on behalf of, as well) ...
But you forgot one very important Pro:
Excellent support available
===
You
On 4/13/06, Ain Vagula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Excellent support available
===
You decide if you want instant support and helpful advice by well
informed other users on e-mail lists, or if you want to buy
professional support from Sun. For any questions that the
Chad Smith wrote:
On 4/13/06, Ain Vagula [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
There are many *MANY* MS Office users groups and forums out there - as well
as professional support from Microsoft and third parties. Plus MS Office
has a ton more books, websites, and othre forms of documentation out there.
Rigel wrote:
Actually the CD's last longest in paper sleeves. This minimizes air
movement and reduces oxidization. Storing CD's verticaly typicaly
prevents the CD itself from moving around itself. The spindle in the
case can over time warp the CD if it's stored horizontaly. Not sure
why though.
Lars D. Noodén wrote:
But as I understand it, and speak up with corrections, MOOX and the
earlier MS XML formats are incomplete and that they are a marketing
response to OpenDocument's development.
If incomplete means that it does not cover all the features, then the
Office 2003 XML file
On 1/24/06, Robert Derman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Rigel wrote:
No wonder they call it the golden age :)
Rigel
Actually the CD's last longest in paper sleeves. This minimizes air
movement and reduces oxidization. Storing CD's verticaly typicaly
prevents the CD itself from moving around
Okay. This message has gotten way off track. I'm changing it
CD-Storage and moving it to the social list, if no one minds? No
reason to clutter up the discuss list with non OOo related info.
Regardless of whether OOo ships CD's, once they get to the consumer,
it's out of our hands how they store
Chad Smith wrote:
Were they burned already?
Yes
Did you store them vertically?
No. WTF?
Did you read the
rest of my email?
Yes
--
Daniel Kasak
IT Developer
NUS Consulting Group
Level 5, 77 Pacific Highway
North Sydney, NSW, Australia 2060
T: (+61) 2 9922-7676 / F: (+61) 2 9922 7989
On 1/23/06, Daniel Kasak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chad Smith wrote:
Were they burned already?
Yes
Did you store them vertically?
No. WTF?
Burned CDs last longer when they are stored vertically. If you had indeed
read my previous email and checked the links I sent, you'd know that
Chad Smith wrote:
Burned CDs last longer when they are stored vertically. If you had indeed
read my previous email and checked the links I sent, you'd know that
already.
I read your claim about vertical storage in your previous email.
My response then was the same as it is now: WTF?
--
Actually the CD's last longest in paper sleeves. This minimizes air
movement and reduces oxidization. Storing CD's verticaly typicaly
prevents the CD itself from moving around itself. The spindle in the
case can over time warp the CD if it's stored horizontaly. Not sure
why though. I'll see if I
Hi guys,
This CD-discussion has gone a long way from the original question and
subject. Maybe start a separate thread somewhere?
Greetings,
Cor
Rigel wrote:
Actually the CD's last longest in paper sleeves. This minimizes air
movement and reduces oxidization. Storing CD's verticaly typicaly
Were they burned already? Did you store them vertically? Did you read the
rest of my email?
On 1/22/06, Daniel Kasak [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chad Smith wrote:
Even the worst made CD burned on a home desktop should last more than 15
years, unless you lay it burn-side up in a pool of water
Chad Smith wrote:
Even the worst made CD burned on a home desktop should last more than 15
years, unless you lay it burn-side up in a pool of water with direct
sunlight, in which case the lifespan can be measured in days.
You're kidding, right?
I've had CDRs go sour after 18 months ... left
).
Ray
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Kasak [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: discuss@openoffice.org
Sent: Sunday, January 22, 2006 2:37 PM
Subject: Re: [discuss] Re: Short list with Pro's Cons
Chad Smith wrote:
Even the worst made CD burned on a home desktop should last more than 15
years
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:30:50 -0500
minutes on my 1.42G4 eMac with 512MB of RAM. NeoOffice's use of
Carbon and Java is a much better way to go.
This is your opinion. Much better way is to go with Carbon or COCOA
*without* Java.
--
Pavel Janík
On 1/20/06, Pavel Janík [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 2006 15:30:50 -0500
minutes on my 1.42G4 eMac with 512MB of RAM. NeoOffice's use of
Carbon and Java is a much better way to go.
This is your opinion. Much better way is to
Chuck wrote:
I think you guys may want to run some hardware diagnostics on whatever
If it happened on one or two machines, you might have a point.
But when it happens on machines at different Kinko's locations, half a
dozen of their competitors, and assorted machines at places where I
have
On 19/01/2006, at 6:56 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 23:09 +, Daniel Carrera wrote:
Jeff Causey wrote:
According to the article I referenced by Bruce Byfield, the
Navigator equivalent in Writer is the Outline View. He seemed
to think Word's
On 19/01/2006, at 6:59 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
Hi Jonathon,
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
I would also add to that list * Uses advanced/up-to-date
technologies such as XForms and web services
architecture.
I know XForms do not excist in MsO.
And that XForms have much to do with web services
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
Agreed. In Calc, there are a couple of things that can only be done
using the Navigator (or at least pre-2.0 versions). Check out the
scenarios for example.
And what about linking or copying named ranges from another spreadsheet,
just with the Navigator.
Let's
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
On 19/01/2006, at 6:59 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
Do you or does anyone else know how I have to weigth this point in
comparing with MsO?
I think the closest that I have heard of is something called SharePoint
from memory. This apparently is some method of sharing between
On 19/01/2006, at 9:05 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
On 19/01/2006, at 6:59 PM, Cor Nouws wrote:
Do you or does anyone else know how I have to weigth this point
in comparing with MsO?
I think the closest that I have heard of is something called
SharePoint
from memory.
But as I understand it, and speak up with corrections, MOOX and the
earlier MS XML formats are incomplete and that they are a marketing
response to OpenDocument's development.
That is you cannot take what MS has documented and implement a working
format, too many key components are wrapped up
Jonathon Blake wrote:
Chuck wrote:
In all seriousness, when was the last time you experienced corruption in a
compressed document?
About once a week for compressed files. Usually because of
transmission glitches.
As far as documents go, anytime I create a document with MSo, that
I've only had a few problems with corruption of compressed files, these
have been due to media failure. e.g. floppy disks over 8 years old,
Iomega zip disks over 6 and home-burned CDs over 14 months old.
Those last ones rather pissed me off. I bought some new CD-Rs and burned
some backups
Lars D. Noodén wrote:
I've only had a few problems with corruption of compressed files, these
have been due to media failure. e.g. floppy disks over 8 years old,
Iomega zip disks over 6 and home-burned CDs over 14 months old.
Those last ones rather pissed me off. I bought some new CD-Rs
Robin Laing wrote:
Cor Nouws wrote:
Robin Laing wrote:
I don't use MSO so I cannot offer feature comparisons but I will say
that OOo will open MSO files that MSO won't open for some strange
reason. Even files that were just closed on the same desktop. I
have saved someones butt on more
That figure may have been for pressed CDs, not ones you burn. The ones
you burn only last a few years, tops, significantly less than tape.
Tape, when properly stored and actively maintained, can last up to 15
years.
I notice that the last week or so there was an article or two
quoting
On 1/19/06, Lars D. Noodén [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That figure may have been for pressed CDs, not ones you burn. The ones
you burn only last a few years, tops, significantly less than tape.
Tape, when properly stored and actively maintained, can last up to 15
years.
That's not true. You
Chad Smith wrote:
SNIPPET
* Cross platform. Run it on Windows or Linux.
Thanks for not putting Mac on your list. Unless you count NeoOffice,
I wouldn't tell people OOo runs on Mac.
While I've used a Mac Mouse about three times in my life, Tiger desktop
and server have consistently
On 1/19/06, Paul Mirowsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chad Smith wrote:
SNIPPET
* Cross platform. Run it on Windows or Linux.
Thanks for not putting Mac on your list. Unless you count NeoOffice,
I wouldn't tell people OOo runs on Mac.
It's one thing to make it run faster, but
On 19 Jan 2006 at 12:22, Chad Smith wrote:
---clip---
And, btw, OOo X11 *doesn't* run on my Macs because I have Tiger, and OOo
won't work without X11 and I have been completely unable to install X11 on
my Mac. The only way I've been told to do it is with the install disc for
Tiger, and
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
You don't work for Boeing do you? I have a couple of friends that work
at the Ridley PA location.
Chuck
Daniel Carrera wrote:
Chuck wrote:
In all seriousness, when was the last time you experienced corruption in
a compressed document?
On 1/19/06, Larry Gusaas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Did you try this? It sounds like it will install optional part without
reinstalling the whole operating
system.
That did it. Thanks. I still think it's too much to ask someone to dig out
their install CD and go through all that (it took
Please note that I have only worked with Calc, Writer, and Database.
I've never even opened Draw, Impress, or Math.
Following are in order of most to least significant.
Pros
. Free
. Reads and writes MS Office file formats
. Short learning curve for those coming from MS Office
Cons
.
Chuck wrote:
Following are in order of most to least significant.
Pros
. Free
. Reads and writes MS Office file formats
. Short learning curve for those coming from MS Office
That's very sad. It makes it sound like a free MS Office rip-off. No
wonder people see OOo just like that. How
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Daniel Carrera wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Following are in order of most to least significant.
Pros
. Free
. Reads and writes MS Office file formats
. Short learning curve for those coming from MS Office
That's very sad. It makes it sound like
On 1/18/06, Chuck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Daniel Carrera wrote:
Chuck wrote:
Following are in order of most to least significant.
Pros
. Free
. Reads and writes MS Office file formats
. Short learning curve for those coming from
Chad Smith wrote:
I wouldn't say those pros make it sound like a cheap MS rip-off, those
are the 3 most important reasons most people use OOo. Take away any
one of those, and you'll lose a large part of our user-base.
They are important, but if that's your list, it really does make it
sound
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:25:38 -0500
To install X11 on a system that is already running Tiger, you have to
*reinstall Tiger* to do it, potentially losing data and/or
preferences.
This is non-true statement. As you use non-true statements as
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:43:37 -0500
Chad,
* Cross platform. Run it on Windows or Linux.
Thanks for not putting Mac on your list. Unless you count NeoOffice,
I wouldn't tell people OOo runs on Mac.
does Neo run on Mac OS X without
Chuck wrote:
The OP specifically asked to skip that stuff. If you leave that all out,
it is a free alternative to MS Office.
I'm betting he's trying to justify OOo to a bunch of suits that are
afraid of using anything but MS Office. Those pros should alleviate
those fears.
Well understood,
Hi Daniel,
Daniel Carrera wrote:
[...]
* Higher reliability. You're less likely to lose a document.
Good one.
[...]
* Includes a vector graphics application (MS Office does not).
As well.
* Superior integration. Open a WP file from your spread sheet. Draw an
image on Draw and paste it on
Jeff Causey wrote:
All that is true and sways the technical folks and power users, but I
rather suspect for your typical business person (who is the target of
Cor's project), you probably lost them after An zip compressed XML
file...
I don't expect a typical business person to understand the
Hi Chad,
Chad Smith wrote:
Templates? Um, if you're comparing OOo to MSO (as I believe this
thread is meant to do) templates would be a pro for MSO and a con for
OOo - there are thousands, if not tens of thousands of good quality,
useful templates out there for MSO, and many of them are
On 1/18/06, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
That's very sad. It makes it sound like a free MS Office rip-off.
WRT the stuff I said about all office software being considered an
alternative to MSO, one of the RSS feeds I get in my Gmail had this story in
it about Word Perfect X3 coming
Hi Lars,
Lars D. Noodén wrote:
* cross platform
* supports OpenDocument natively
* supports long documents better than the competition
* better support for styles than competition
* translated to over 80 languages
In general I've found it to have better support for older versions of MS
Hi Chuck,
Chuck wrote:
Please note that I have only worked with Calc, Writer, and Database.
I've never even opened Draw, Impress, or Math.
(Should try Draw. Makes fun ánd sence!)
Following are in order of most to least significant.
Pros
. Free
. Reads and writes MS Office file
An zip compressed XML file (like ODF) is significantly less prone to
failure than a binary dump (like .doc). First, XML files are well
structured with defined schemas. One upshot of that is that you can
lose a fair bit of structural data and still rebuild the entire
document without loss. For
Hi Jeff,
Jeff Causey wrote:
[...]
Thanks for th idea's I snipped away above. Were some very usefull.
I'd ask as well what easy task switching refers to? Likewise, can be
used along side of existing software? Unfortunately, that bullet did
prompt me to wonder just how many applications
On 1/18/06, Pavel Janík [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:43:37 -0500
Chad,
* Cross platform. Run it on Windows or Linux.
Thanks for not putting Mac on your list. Unless you count NeoOffice,
I wouldn't tell
On 1/18/06, Pavel Janík [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 14:25:38 -0500
To install X11 on a system that is already running Tiger, you have
to
*reinstall Tiger* to do it, potentially losing data and/or
preferences.
This
On 1/18/06, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'd ask as well what easy task switching refers to?
Ask Chad. Please don't quote Chad's list as if it were mine.
Yeah, you could get Daniel kicked off the list if you keep that up. :-)
Easy task switching refers to the ability to open
Chad Smith wrote:
Easy task switching refers to the ability to open Calc from within Writer,
or to open Draw from within Impress. The drop-down menu in the top left
corner of the toolbars of each component of OOo lets the user open whatever
program he needs at the time. I don't think Word can
Chuck, my short list is
* cross platform
* supports OpenDocument natively
* supports long documents better than the competition
* better support for styles than competition
* translated to over 80 languages
In general I've found it to have better support for older versions of MS
formats. (The
Daniel,
Jeff Causey wrote:
All that is true and sways the technical folks and power users, but I
rather suspect for your typical business person (who is the target of
Cor's project), you probably lost them after An zip compressed XML
file...
I don't expect a typical business person to
Daniel Carrera wrote:
An zip compressed XML file (like ODF) is significantly less prone to
failure than a binary dump (like .doc).
In all seriousness, when was the last time you experienced corruption in
a compressed document? In 20+ years in IT I've never seen it happen
once. The closest
Jeff Causey wrote:
The problem I am trying to anticipate is the business
person who responds, Doesn't MSO use XML files now? What about their
new Office XML formats?
1) Doesn't MSO use XML files now?
No, not yet. But next version will.
2) What about their new Office XML formats.
They have
Chuck wrote:
In all seriousness, when was the last time you experienced corruption in
a compressed document?
About 3 times in the last 2 years. One of those times was when I rescued
a year's work for an Italian author. He was writing a book.
I've seen it happen more than 3 times with MS
On 1/18/06, Daniel Carrera [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jeff Causey wrote:
The problem I am trying to anticipate is the business
person who responds, Doesn't MSO use XML files now? What about their
new Office XML formats?
1) Doesn't MSO use XML files now?
No, not yet. But next version
Chad Smith wrote:
Microsoft Office 2003 has an XML format, (and has for 3 years). It's a
different format than the one they are planning to use in the next version
of MSO, but it is XML.
It's not the default though. And that format is dead. It won't be
supported in future versions. It wasn't
Jeff Causey wrote:
I think that could be persuasive if they are willing to put their name
to that and they have sufficient name recognition.
Jean Hollis weber. Yes, in tech writer circles her has good recognition.
Her most recent book got the highest awards in the Australia Tech
Writers
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 14:25 -0500, Chad Smith wrote:
On 1/18/06, Pavel Janík [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:43:37 -0500
SNIP!
X11, on the other hand, does not come preinstalled, nor is it a part
of the default install of OS X. It
Chuck wrote:
In all seriousness, when was the last time you experienced corruption in a
compressed document?
About once a week for compressed files. Usually because of
transmission glitches.
As far as documents go, anytime I create a document with MSo, that
contains 10 000 words, I can be
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 20:57 +0100, Cor Nouws wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Daniel Carrera wrote:
[...]
* Higher reliability. You're less likely to lose a document.
Good one.
[...]
* Includes a vector graphics application (MS Office does not).
As well.
* Superior integration. Open a WP file
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 19:59 +, Daniel Carrera wrote:
Jeff Causey wrote:
All that is true and sways the technical folks and power users, but I
rather suspect for your typical business person (who is the target of
Cor's project), you probably lost them after An zip compressed XML
On 1/18/06, Jonathon Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 14:25 -0500, Chad Smith wrote:
On 1/18/06, Pavel Janík [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:43:37 -0500
SNIP!
X11, on the other hand, does not come
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 19:26 -0500, Chad Smith wrote:
On 1/18/06, Jonathon Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 14:25 -0500, Chad Smith wrote:
On 1/18/06, Pavel Janík [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 18 Jan 2006 12:43:37
On 1/18/06, Chad Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If TODAY you were to get a new Mac from Apple, with no special requests to
put X11 on it, it will not run OpenOffice.org proper out of the box. It
will, however, run NeoOffice. If you got the new Mac, which would have
Macintosh OS X 10.4.4
Hi Lars,
Lars D. Noodén wrote:
* cross platform
* supports OpenDocument natively
* supports long documents better than the competition
* better support for styles than competition
* translated to over 80 languages
In general I've found it to have better support for older versions of MS
On 1/18/06, Jonathon Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By TODAY, I assume you mean since Tiger was made available on the new
Apple machines. Well, mine is less that 2 months old and came with Tiger
pre-installed. I installed OOo with X11 onto it without any issue, or
without having to
On Thu, 2006-19-01 at 10:57 +1100, Jonathon Coombes wrote:
I'll reiterate my point about styles in OO as well - MSO has the same
capability. The one selling point about styles I think OO can make is
page styles.
Page styles matter. Does MSO have a Navigator and Stylist? Does it
Daniel,
Jean Hollis weber. Yes, in tech writer circles her has good
recognition. Her most recent book got the highest awards in the
Australia Tech Writers competition (distinction and best of show).
Bruce's email should convince you.
Thanks. I actually don't need convincing as I know that
On Wed, 2006-18-01 at 21:52 +, Daniel Carrera wrote:
MSO master documents get corrupted very easily. They break easily.
OOo's don't as much.
Do you have any data to back up your opinion that MSO master
documents
get corrupted or break easily?
Expert opinion from a technical
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 20:01 -0500, Chad Smith wrote:
On 1/18/06, Jonathon Coombes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
By TODAY, I assume you mean since Tiger was made available on the new
Apple machines. Well, mine is less that 2 months old and came with Tiger
pre-installed. I installed OOo with
Daniel,
Do you have any data to back up your opinion that MSO master
documents get corrupted or break easily?
Expert opinion from a technical editor of 30 years.
I think that could be persuasive if they are willing to put their name
to that and they have sufficient name recognition.
IIRC,
Bruce Byfield wrote:
Finally, a personal perspective: Having worked on dozens of documents
varying from 100-1000 pages, I can personally vouch for the continued
unreliability of MSO master documents for over a decade. I have used OOo
master documents for four years, and rarely had a problem.
On 18 Jan 2006 at 19:31, Chad Smith wrote:
In case you were wondering, here's the page I got X11 from.
http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/x11formacosx.html
Notice the note:
*Note* 10.4 customers can install X11 by using the Tiger DVD installer
disk.
Which everytime I try
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
On Wed, 2006-01-18 at 23:09 +, Daniel Carrera wrote:
Jeff Causey wrote:
According to the article I referenced by Bruce Byfield, the Navigator
equivalent in Writer is the Outline View. He seemed to think Word's
implementation was superior.
My understanding is
Hi Jonathon,
Jonathon Coombes wrote:
I would also add to that list
* Uses advanced/up-to-date technologies such as XForms and web services
architecture.
I know XForms do not excist in MsO.
And that XForms have much to do with web services architecture.
Do you or does anyone else know
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