At 12:36 AM 11/12/2009 -0600, Robert Kern wrote:
Sorry, I edited out the bit at the last minute where I explained
that it would be great to have a centralized option-managing object
such that any command can ask what options were set on any other
regardless of the dependencies between
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 7:36 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
Why do incremental improvements have to break all the hard work that has
already been done? Surely this is what a compatibility policy is about.
Since Tarek keeps asking us to make proposals without thinking about
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 7:34 AM, David Cournapeau
da...@ar.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp wrote:
[...]
- existing usage of distutils API should remain compatible. I asked
in a previous email what is meant by distutils API, Tarek answered
anything which does not start with an underscore. But what does
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
The build and instalation scheme should be part of the API. If you
look in sysconfig,
you get most of the install schemes via the API. If anything is
missing, tell us.
(I am reading the code there:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 11:25 AM, David Cournapeau
da...@ar.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp wrote:
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
The build and instalation scheme should be part of the API. If you
look in sysconfig,
you get most of the install schemes via the API. If anything is
missing, tell us.
(I am reading
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 8:14 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
Now, there's no reason at all that we can''t add an API in
distutils.util for example, that let you get
the build paths, and that will be used by all build_ commands, so you
don't have to use a build_ command
to get
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:57 PM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
The signature does not really matter I think. Since those parameters
depends on user customization (through config files or command line
flags), it could be something like:
class FinalizedOptions:
def
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 10:36 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:57 PM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
The signature does not really matter I think. Since those parameters
depends on user customization (through config files or command line
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:06 PM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
[..]
I was not referring to the finalized options of any commands, but to
the build paths you are trying to get.
But those are linked. Build directories are customizable through
pretty much any build_command (I see
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
David Cournapeau wrote:
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I want to improve Distutils, but not for the price of a complete drop.
I don't think the edge cases we
are discussing worth it, and I still fail to see why we can't work
them out in the context of the
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:55 PM, Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com wrote:
[..]
The phantom distutils API
doesn't exist, which means that almost any improvement (and I don't deny
that such improvements are possible) potentially breaks substantial
installed codebases. In this sense, fixing
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
And let's drop the backward compat issues in these discussions, so we
don't burn out
in details.
That's the part I don't understand. If backward compatibility is not a
concern, why keeping distutils ? If you change the
On 2009-11-11 17:18 PM, David Cournapeau wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Tarek Ziadéziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
And let's drop the backward compat issues in these discussions, so we
don't burn out
in details.
That's the part I don't understand. If backward compatibility is not a
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:18 AM, David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
And let's drop the backward compat issues in these discussions, so we
don't burn out
in details.
That's the part I don't understand. If
On 2009-11-11 18:04 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 12:18 AM, David Cournapeaucourn...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 6:59 AM, Tarek Ziadéziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
And let's drop the backward compat issues in these discussions, so we
don't burn out
in details.
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:
[...]
- you are convinced that distutils should be written from scratch. I
am not for many reasons. Some others are not either.
it won't happen. the only thing that could make it happen is the
replacement of distutils
On 2009-11-11 18:48 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I want to improve Distutils, but not for the price of a complete drop.
I don't think the edge cases we
are discussing worth it, and I still fail to see why we can't work
them out in the context of the existing
tool.
Mostly because I'm entirely
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2009-11-11 18:48 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I want to improve Distutils, but not for the price of a complete drop.
I don't think the edge cases we
are discussing worth it, and I still fail to see why we can't work
them
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 1:59 AM, Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com wrote:
On 2009-11-11 18:48 PM, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I want to improve Distutils, but not for the price of a complete drop.
I don't think the edge cases we
are discussing worth it, and I still fail to see why
Who's we by the way ? The Scons project ? or the numpy.distutils project
?
numpy and scipy. While I hesitate to speak for an entire community, I must
say that David and my opinions on distutils are shared by a good portion of
our community that has to deal with building and packaging.
On Nov 11, 2009, at 10:04 PM, Robert Kern wrote:
In our considered opinion, piecemeal changes probably aren't going to solve
the significant problems that we face. At best, they simply aren't going to
help; we wouldn't be able to use the new features until we can drop support
for Python
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
There are probably a dozen other ways that you *could* work on distutils and
benefit more immediately from your efforts than the next Python release. To
think otherwise is a simply a failure of imagination. Now, if you think it's
*too hard* to do that, it might be
2009/11/12 David Cournapeau da...@ar.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp:
I am trying to understand what is 'nebulous' about our claims. We have
given plenty of hard and concrete examples of things which are
problematic in distutils. The major progress in our build issues have
been achieved by dropping
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
I want to improve Distutils, but not for the price of a complete drop.
I don't think the edge cases we
are discussing worth it, and I still fail to see why we can't work
them out in the context of the existing
tool.
Well, the scientific python edge case is what Guido
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/11/12 David Cournapeau da...@ar.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp:
I am trying to understand what is 'nebulous' about our claims. We have
given plenty of hard and concrete examples of things which are
problematic in distutils. The major progress in our build issues have
been
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
Bitching that distutils needs to be scratched and rewritten is not
going to help. You need to DO it.
Nobody asked you (or anyone else) to do anything. Guido asked a
question, we answered with our rationale.
There is no
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/11/12 David Cournapeau courn...@gmail.com:
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 2:28 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
Bitching that distutils needs to be scratched and rewritten is not
going to help. You need to DO it.
Nobody asked you (or anyone else) to do
2009/11/12 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
The discussion is pointless. If you want something better than distutils,
do it.
David's working on it:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/numscons
Enable to use scons within distutils to build extensions
I'm confused now.
--
Lennart Regebro:
On Nov 12, 2009, at 12:02 AM, David Cournapeau wrote:
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
There are probably a dozen other ways that you *could* work on distutils and
benefit more immediately from your efforts than the next Python release. To
think otherwise is a simply a failure of imagination. Now,
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/11/12 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
The discussion is pointless. If you want something better than distutils,
do it.
David's working on it:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/numscons
Enable to use scons within distutils to build extensions
I'm confused now.
In
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/11/12 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
The discussion is pointless. If you want something better than distutils,
do it.
David's working on it:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/numscons
Enable to use scons within distutils to build extensions
I'm confused now.
2009/11/12 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
It's a start.
OK, good enough.
--
Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
___
Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
Still, it would have been more helpful to point out how exactly this
problem could be solved, and to present (for example) a description of
similar objects politely interacting and delegating responsibility to
one another to accomplish the same task.
Sorry, I edited
On Nov 12, 2009, at 1:36 AM, Robert Kern wrote:
Glyph Lefkowitz wrote:
Still, it would have been more helpful to point out how exactly this problem
could be solved, (...)
Sorry, I edited out the bit at the last minute where I explained that it
would be great to have a centralized
On Thu, Nov 12, 2009 at 3:04 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/11/12 Robert Kern robert.k...@gmail.com:
The discussion is pointless. If you want something better than distutils,
do it.
David's working on it:
http://pypi.python.org/pypi/numscons
Enable to use scons within
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