2009/10/7 Tres Seaver tsea...@palladion.com:
The fact that the bugfix (to distutils) was committed by folks who are
*alos* pusing a fork to setuptools is what raises the eyebrows here.
Eh... why? Tarek has become the lead for Python packaging programs and
is trying hard to fix the sad state of
On 07.10.2009, at 01:08, Sridhar Ratnakumar wrote:
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:25:04 -0700, kiorky kio...@cryptelium.net
wrote:
The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at
http://bitbucket.org/pjenvey/virtualenv-distribute/ and this
version by Florian
Schulze lives at
On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Florian Schulze wrote:
This way one - who stumbled upon the bitbucket site - does not have
to pull the source tree and look in docs/index.rst in order to get
the URL to the bug tracker. (I had a bug to report a couple of days).
The launchpad bugtracker is for
On 07.10.2009, at 16:21, sstein...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Florian Schulze wrote:
This way one - who stumbled upon the bitbucket site - does not
have to pull the source tree and look in docs/index.rst in order
to get the URL to the bug tracker. (I had a bug to
On Oct 7, 2009, at 10:51 AM, Florian Schulze wrote:
On 07.10.2009, at 16:21, sstein...@gmail.com wrote:
On Oct 7, 2009, at 3:18 AM, Florian Schulze wrote:
This way one - who stumbled upon the bitbucket site - does not
have to pull the source tree and look in docs/index.rst in order
On 5 Oct, 2009, at 13:54, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com
wrote:
Nobody will adopt it until they are forced to. This unfortunate bug
means people are forced to quicker than expected. I don't think
that's
an actual problem.
This
Tarek Ziadé wrote:
The proper answer is : Setuptools is on the top of Distutils and has
to evolve with it.
And since it monkey patches it, it has to be changed when a Distutils
release breaks it.
I want to note that the issue here is not monkey-patching, it is
subclassing the command classes.
P.J. Eby kirjoitti:
At 11:53 AM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/5 Jeff Rush j...@taupro.com:
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And
*especially*
without any announcement on python.org or mention on the
python-committers list of something this major.
K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Alex Grönholm wrote:
There is a lack of consensus regarding how exactly they should work.
If we are having this much trouble deciding how a third party tool
should work, it is certainly not going to be merged into distutils
until those issues have been resolved.
An update on the immediate issue: after discussion elsewhere, it was
decided that there were enough other problems with 2.6.3 to warrant a
quick release of 2.6.4. Tarek has checked in a change to distutils to
unbreak the setuptools currently out in the field. If all goes well,
2.6.4 should
kiorky wrote:
Hi,
for the folks using virtualenv-distribute, i forked it to make the last 0.6.3
install instead of 0.6.1.
See :
http://bitbucket.org/kiorky/virtualenv-distribute/
Install it:
easy_install
2009/10/6 Chris Withers ch...@simplistix.co.uk:
kiorky wrote:
Hi,
for the folks using virtualenv-distribute, i forked it to make the last
0.6.3
install instead of 0.6.1.
See :
http://bitbucket.org/kiorky/virtualenv-distribute/
Install it:
easy_install
2009/10/6 Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com:
I think it's a fork of Virtualenv, no? Which uses a fork of distribute. :)
I meant that it uses a fork of setuptools, obviously
--
Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
http://regebro.wordpress.com/
+33 661 58 14 64
It's just a fork of virtualenv to use distribute.
It does not use a fork of distribute but distribute itself ;)
Lennart Regebro a écrit :
2009/10/6 Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com:
I think it's a fork of Virtualenv, no? Which uses a fork of distribute. :)
I meant that it uses a fork of
Anyway, it's released now on pypi as virtualenv-distribute-1.3.4.2.
The code is also merged in florian branch and it has been decided that's the
main repository.
kiorky a écrit :
It's just a fork of virtualenv to use distribute.
It does not use a fork of distribute but distribute itself ;)
2009/10/6 kiorky kio...@cryptelium.net:
Anyway, it's released now on pypi as virtualenv-distribute-1.3.4.2.
The code is also merged in florian branch and it has been decided that's the
main repository.
What is the florian branch, and in general, could you provide some
more info. Your emails
Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com wrote:
Installing distribute is therefore not problematic for most people, if
they know that the project exists. The fact that distribute is a
seperate project from setuptools can be a problem for people:
installing a bugfix release for a software
Hi Lennart,
If i read 'virtualenv-distribute 1.3.4.2 on pypi'
I can do some googling or even do some Pypi searching for
'virtualenv-distribute'.
Thus, the first link found may be [1].
On this link, the second sentence is:
The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Bill Janssen jans...@parc.com wrote:
For me, it's more a matter of OS X 10.6 already comes with setuptools;
how can I mitigate the impact of this buggy unmaintained package on the
systems I'm building to deploy on OS X?. Adding distribute to the mix,
however
At 09:20 AM 10/6/2009 +0300, Alex Grönholm wrote:
P.J. Eby kirjoitti:
At 11:53 AM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/5 Jeff Rush j...@taupro.com:
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially*
without any announcement on python.org or mention on the
2009/10/6 P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com:
Yes, but that's got nothing to do with the bug that's been being discussed.
The same change bit pywin32, and it doesn't use setuptools at all.
True. The problem was a badly documented interface, which meant people
used it in one way, but a bug fix
On Tue, 06 Oct 2009 10:25:04 -0700, kiorky kio...@cryptelium.net wrote:
The fork was started by Philip Jenvey at
http://bitbucket.org/pjenvey/virtualenv-distribute/ and this version by
Florian
Schulze lives at http://bitbucket.org/fschulze/virtualenv-distribute/
[1] -
On Oct 6, 2009, at 10:36 AM, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Bill Janssen jans...@parc.com wrote:
For me, it's more a matter of OS X 10.6 already comes with setuptools;
how can I mitigate the impact of this buggy unmaintained package on the
systems I'm building to
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/5 Jeff Rush j...@taupro.com:
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially*
without any announcement on python.org or mention on the
python-committers list of something this major.
Well
Tres Seaver wrote:
Bugfixes which break backward compatibility in minor relaseses are
major fouls, period.
Sure, but what does backward compatibility even mean for distutils ? Not
much, as any non trivial extension needs to use undocumented
implementation details.
As PJE points out, the
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something
(and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away.
It's unfortunate that this comes in a minor release.
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have
2009/10/5 Jeff Rush j...@taupro.com:
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially*
without any announcement on python.org or mention on the
python-committers list of something this major.
Well this major... It's a bug fix that breaks a setuptools monkey-patch.
But
On Monday, 05 October, 2009, at 11:53AM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com
wrote:
2009/10/5 Jeff Rush j...@taupro.com:
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially*
without any announcement on python.org or mention on the
python-committers list of something this
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:30 PM, Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com wrote:
Nobody will adopt it until they are forced to. This unfortunate bug
means people are forced to quicker than expected. I don't think that's
an actual problem.
This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in
2009/10/5 Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com:
This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in replacement for
2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another component as well. That can be
a problem in organizations with strict configuration management where you
cannot install
On Monday,2009-10-05, at 7:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote:
I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if
it's possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with
Python 2.6.3 /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen
asap. If that's not possible, then we
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 3:38 PM, Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org wrote:
On Oct 5, 2009, at 5:40 AM, Jeff Rush wrote:
Very unfortunate, as in, it should NOT have happened. And *especially*
without any announcement on python.org or mention on the
python-committers list of something this major.
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:02 PM, Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn zo...@zooko.com wrote:
On Monday,2009-10-05, at 7:38 , Barry Warsaw wrote:
I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's
possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3
/and/ earlier Python
On Oct 5, 2009, at 7:44 AM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/5 Ronald Oussoren ronaldousso...@mac.com:
This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in
replacement for 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another
component as well. That can be a problem in organizations with
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve without help.
I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long
time configuration/build/packaging professional. You're mistaken if you
think that any of these technologies are
On Oct 5, 2009, at 9:38 AM, Barry Warsaw wrote:
I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if
it's possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with
Python 2.6.3 /and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen
asap. If that's not possible, then we
On Oct 5, 2009, at 10:25 AM, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Python packaging and distribution right now is not for beginners or
the faint of heart.
If we're honest with ourselves, it's not for experienced developers
either. Do you really even want to have to /think/ about this stuff?
-Barry
2009/10/5 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's
possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3
/and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen asap.
PJE seems interested in this, as he asked about
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley r...@noir.com:
This would be a problem if distribute were in general release. It's not.
It's clearly a development branch which is intended to move quickly.
No, this is incorrect. The 0.6-branch is not intended to move quickly,
it is in bugfix mode.
It is moving
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 4:57 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/10/5 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's
possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3
/and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then
Barry Warsaw wrote:
On Oct 5, 2009, at 10:25 AM, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Python packaging and distribution right now is not for beginners or
the faint of heart.
If we're honest with ourselves, it's not for experienced developers
either. Do you really even want to have to /think/ about this
Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley r...@noir.com:
This would be a problem if distribute were in general release. It's not.
It's clearly a development branch which is intended to move quickly.
No, this is incorrect. The 0.6-branch is not intended to move quickly,
it
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley r...@noir.com:
Is that about right?
Nope. 0.6 is a fork of setuptools, providing bugfixes (and also 3.1
support). It's completely backwards compatible with setuptools.
0.7 is a development branch, which aims to refactor setuptools into
something or (rather several
K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve
without help.
I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long
time configuration/build/packaging professional. You're mistaken if you
think that any
Jeremy Sanders kirjoitti:
K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve
without help.
I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a long
time configuration/build/packaging professional.
On Monday,2009-10-05, at 8:11 , Tarek Ziadé wrote:
So are you saying that in an environment where you are allowed to
install Python 2.6.3, you will not be allowed to install an
hypothetical setuptools-0.6c10 (or a Distribute 0.6.3) ?
Yes, situations like that can come up. For example, I
I'm sorry to follow-up to my own post, but I realized that I didn't
make something clear: the current Tahoe-LAFS source distribution
comes with its own copy of setuptools, so even if PJE releases a new
version of setuptools or if we patch that copy to work-around this
problem, we're going
Alex Grönholm wrote:
There is a lack of consensus regarding how exactly they should work.
If we are having this much trouble deciding how a third party tool
should work, it is certainly not going to be merged into distutils
until those issues have been resolved. Distutils is what houses (or
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 1:33 PM, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote:
I've opened an issue of the main Python issue tracker outlining the
problem, primarily for the benefit of affected users who search the
tracker:
http://bugs.python.org/issue7064
If I understand the comments on this ticket
At 07:25 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
How do I delete a package using easy_install?
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#uninstalling-packages
___
Distutils-SIG maillist - Distutils-SIG@python.org
At 04:57 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/5 Barry Warsaw ba...@python.org:
I apologize for my part in this, but moving forward I think that if it's
possible to patch and release a setuptools that works with Python 2.6.3
/and/ earlier Python 2.6.x's, then that should happen
At 06:53 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Lennart Regebro wrote:
Possibly if you somehow
think it's the Distribute teams fault that a bugfix in Python ended up
breaking setuptools. If it would have been better not to fix that bug,
then the blame reasonably goes to the Python core developers, not the
P.J. Eby wrote:
At 07:25 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
How do I delete a package using easy_install?
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#uninstalling-packages
That doesn't remove a package. It simply removes the package from the
search path by one method in
At 07:53 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
If I understand the comments on this ticket correctly, Tarek has
changed distutils in a way so the last setuptools release continues
to work, correct?
Yes. And a very nice fix, done quite quickly. Thank you Tarek.
So based on the
I'm struggling to articulate something here. When the maintainer of
the stable branch of a platform that I rely on says The fact that
upgrading to our recent stable release will break this critical
functionality is so-and-so's fault, not ours. this reduces my
confidence in that
On Mon, Oct 5, 2009 at 8:38 PM, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
At 07:53 PM 10/5/2009 +0200, Hanno Schlichting wrote:
If I understand the comments on this ticket correctly, Tarek has changed
distutils in a way so the last setuptools release continues to work,
correct?
Yes. And a
At 11:29 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
P.J. Eby wrote:
At 07:25 AM 10/5/2009 -0700, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
How do I delete a package using easy_install?
http://peak.telecommunity.com/DevCenter/EasyInstall#uninstalling-packages
That doesn't remove a package. It simply removes
2009/10/5 K. Richard Pixley r...@noir.com:
I'm recent to python packaging and distribution, so let me see if I've put
this together right from my reading of the various web pages involved over
the weekend.
Distutils is currently part of the standard python library. As such, it's
released
On Mon, 05 Oct 2009 11:21:28 -0700, P.J. Eby p...@telecommunity.com wrote:
And there's nothing all that special about setuptools' subclassing of
build_ext; in fact, if you look back in the archives here, other people
have done equivalent subclassing to support dynamic library building. I
Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn zo...@zooko.com wrote:
I'm struggling to articulate something here. When the maintainer of
the stable branch of a platform that I rely on says The fact that
upgrading to our recent stable release will break this critical
functionality is so-and-so's fault, not ours. this
2009/10/5 Jeremy Sanders jer...@jeremysanders.net:
As a general question, is there any planned project to improve the state of
distutils or replace it? It appears to be one of the weakest parts of the
Python system and needs replacing with something much cleaner, better
documented and more
Bill Janssen kirjoitti:
Zooko Wilcox-O'Hearn zo...@zooko.com wrote:
I'm struggling to articulate something here. When the maintainer of
the stable branch of a platform that I rely on says The fact that
upgrading to our recent stable release will break this critical
functionality is
Alex Grönholm alex.gronh...@nextday.fi wrote:
Does your bug still exist in Distribute? If so, please report it at
http://bitbucket.org/tarek/distribute/ (assuming that bitbucket is
operational, which it currently isn't)
Sorry, Alex, I don't know about Distribute, don't (particularly) care.
If
Bill Janssen kirjoitti:
Alex Grönholm alex.gronh...@nextday.fi wrote:
Does your bug still exist in Distribute? If so, please report it at
http://bitbucket.org/tarek/distribute/ (assuming that bitbucket is
operational, which it currently isn't)
Sorry, Alex, I don't know about
On 5 Oct, 2009, at 16:25, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
For beginners this issue is a showstopper that they cannot resolve
without help.
I'm a relative beginner to distutils/setuptools/distribute, but a
long time configuration/build/packaging professional. You're
On 5 Oct, 2009, at 16:37, K. Richard Pixley wrote:
Ronald Oussoren wrote:
This is a problem, it means 2.6.3 is not a simple drop-in
replacement for 2.6.2 but requires the replacement of another
component as well. That can be a problem in organizations with
strict configuration
Hi,
for the folks using virtualenv-distribute, i forked it to make the last 0.6.3
install instead of 0.6.1.
See :
http://bitbucket.org/kiorky/virtualenv-distribute/
Install it:
easy_install
http://distfiles.minitage.org/public/externals/minitage/virtualenv-distribute-1.3.5dev-1.zip
Ned Deily
At 03:49 PM 10/3/2009 +0200, Tarek Ziadé wrote:
Notice that this has been fixed in Ubuntu already with a patched
version of setuptools
Is the patch or an equivalent already in the setuptools tracker? And
if not, can someone please post it there? Thanks.
I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users
who will end up needing to install Distribute but only when they
eventually figure out why some packages with C extensions mysteriously
no longer install after they upgrade to python 2.6.3. For example,
following the
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users
who will end up needing to install Distribute but only when they
eventually figure out why some packages with C extensions mysteriously
no longer install after they upgrade to python 2.6.3.
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users
who will end up needing to install Distribute but only when they
eventually figure out why some packages with C
In article
94bdd2610910030649r431a5638y7c8b5332934f...@mail.gmail.com,
Tarek Ziad? ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 2:15 PM, Lennart Regebro rege...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
I'm afraid there is going to be a small deluge of very confused users
On Oct 3, 2009, at 1:00 PM, Ned Deily wrote:
This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something
(and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away.
What would you suggest?
S
___
Distutils-SIG maillist -
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something
(and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away.
It's unfortunate that this comes in a minor release. But at the same
time we can hardly avoid fixing bugs just because
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote:
This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something
(and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away.
Make sure to understand that the way setuptools patches distutils
makes it very sensible to any
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 10:09 PM, Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
...makes it very sensible to any change made in distutils, even backward
compatibles ones like in the 2.6 branch
s/backward compatibles/ bug fixes/
___
Distutils-SIG
On Oct 3, 2009, at 4:08 PM, Lennart Regebro wrote:
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing
something
(and I hope I am), this issue really can't be hand-waved away.
How about some sort of an announcement/warning on the setuptools site
In article
94bdd2610910031309w61d72dcdo8faab4964bf67...@mail.gmail.com,
Tarek Ziadé ziade.ta...@gmail.com wrote:
On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 7:00 PM, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote:
This is not a good experience for users. Unless I'm missing something
(and I hope I am), this issue really can't be
On Sat, 03 Oct 2009 14:17:50 -0700, Ned Deily n...@acm.org wrote:
On what other platforms is this likely to be a problem? Windows *?
Linuxes? If that can be identified, if necessary the distributors of
Python installers can be informed so they can inform their users (note,
that python.org is
2009/10/3 Ned Deily n...@acm.org:
That's fine but they're not going to know about Distribute unless they
stumble across discussions like this.
They are going to ask around, and somebody will know.
Most reasonably, they are going to ask the maker of the module they
are trying to install, and say
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