Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches available to support S3TC compressed textures
on Radeon cards, are there any plans to integrate those patches into the
DRI source tree?
Until an agreement can be reached between the open-source community and
the patent holder, IT WILL NEVER
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Ian Romanick wrote:
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches available to support S3TC compressed textures
on Radeon cards, are there any plans to integrate those patches into the
DRI source tree?
Until an agreement can be reached between the open-source
BTW, since I originally asked this question, the general tone of the
discussion has been positive and the general consensus seems to be that
simply uploading the compressed textures to the card, and allowing the
hardware to handle the decompression is not a violation of the patents in
question.
..
--
Matt Sealey
- Original Message -
From: Adam K Kirchhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Ian Romanick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: DRI developer's list [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, December 29, 2003 10:58 AM
Subject: Re: [Dri-devel] S3TC
BTW, since I originally asked this question, the general tone
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Matt Sealey wrote:
Ian: wouldn't it be possible to have an official patch, for compressed
texture stuff, that tracks the trees releases?
I think that would be good, if somebody maintains it. It's pretty much
guaranteed that anybody who has a modern graphics card has
I am not a lawyer. None of what follows is legal advice. Furthermore,
I am speaking for myself alone, NOT my employer.
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Ian Romanick wrote:
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches available to support S3TC compressed textures
on Radeon
It's pretty much guaranteed that anybody who has a modern
graphics card has already been licensed for the patent,
since the hw manufacturers would have done so already.
FWIW, for the longest time SiS (now XGI) didn't have S3TC support for their
Xabre Windows OpenGL drivers though supported
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Daniel Vogel wrote:
FWIW, for the longest time SiS (now XGI) didn't have S3TC support for their
Xabre Windows OpenGL drivers though supported it via DirectX/Direct3D. I
guess they didn't feel like licensing the patent from a competitor.
Interesting.
I believe exposing
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Ian Romanick wrote:
I am not a lawyer. None of what follows is legal advice. Furthermore,
I am speaking for myself alone, NOT my employer.
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
On Mon, 29 Dec 2003, Ian Romanick wrote:
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches
Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
BTW, since I originally asked this question, the general tone of the
discussion has been positive and the general consensus seems to be that
simply uploading the compressed textures to the card, and allowing the
hardware to handle the decompression is not a violation of
Daniel Vogel wrote:
I believe exposing the GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc and
GL_ARB_texture_compression extensions implies the driver to handle S3TC
compression as an application can pass in uncompressed data, ask the driver
to compress it and then retrieve the compressed data.
The spec allows
I believe exposing the GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc and
GL_ARB_texture_compression extensions implies the driver to
handle S3TC compression as an application can pass in
uncompressed data, ask the driver to compress it and then
retrieve the compressed data.
The spec allows that
On Llu, 2003-12-29 at 19:52, Linus Torvalds wrote:
Especially a patch that only passes the compressed textures down to the
hardware - it might make sense to not even have a software fallback.
After all, the only people who care about this patch are game users, and
those people likely do not
Am 2003.12.29 21:23:45 +0100 schrieb(en) Daniel Vogel:
[...]
I believe exposing the GL_EXT_texture_compression_s3tc and
GL_ARB_texture_compression extensions implies the driver to handle S3TC
compression as an application can pass in uncompressed data, ask the driver
to compress it and then
The only thing it seems you can't do is compress to S3TC in
the driver, but I really don't see why that is ever needed?
You need it if you store your source art in a different format on disk (e.g.
using jpeg) and don't want to deal with compression yourself - I believe
e.g. Quake III does
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Jacek [iso-8859-2] Popawski wrote:
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 10:23:17AM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches available to support S3TC compressed textures
on Radeon cards, are there any plans to integrate those patches into the
DRI source tree?
I
Am Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 17:08 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Jacek [iso-8859-2] Popawski wrote:
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 10:23:17AM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches available to support S3TC compressed
textures on Radeon cards, are there any
Dieter Ntzel wrote:
Am Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 17:08 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Jacek [iso-8859-2] Popawski wrote:
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 10:23:17AM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are patches available to support S3TC compressed
textures on Radeon cards,
Am Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 18:16 schrieb Roland Scheidegger:
Dieter Ntzel wrote:
Am Sonntag, 28. Dezember 2003 17:08 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Jacek [iso-8859-2] Popawski wrote:
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 10:23:17AM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Now that there are
On Sun, 28 Dec 2003, Jacek [iso-8859-2] Popawski wrote:
On Sun, Dec 28, 2003 at 11:08:26AM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Why not just leave it up to RedHat, then, to either leave the code in or
pull it out?
RedHat was just example. Point is that patent holder may sue anyone who:
- will
Roland Scheidegger wrote:
Hiroshi Morii wrote:
Just wanted to mention that the old 3Dfx compression tool is available
at
glide.sourceforge.net. It's called TEXUS2 and is included in the Glide
swlib CVS module. It's a generic library that includes DXTn
compression.
ah crap that seems to be
On Sul, 2003-12-28 at 16:55, Dieter Ntzel wrote:
We have asked (S3/VIA etc.) so many times for advice, but haven't had any
definitive answer, even sometimes NO answer at all.
I don't think S3, VIA and friends even know who actually owns it right
now.
You need to distinguish between:
On Sul, 2003-12-28 at 17:16, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
btw I don't think you can lose a patent, even in europe. You can lose
trademarks if you don't defend them. If a patent is actually valid and
can be enforced (bascially court will decide this, not patent office) is
a different matter of
As far as i know, software patents are not even legal in europe yet.
Hopefully they won't ever be... So, at least in europe, there shouldn't
be any problem using S3TC compression algorithm. Well that's all i
wanted to say... Bye
Le lun 29/12/2003 à 00:16, Alan Cox a écrit :
On Sul, 2003-12-28 at
I don't think S3, VIA and friends even know who actually owns it right
now.
S3Graphics (subsiduary of VIA) is the patent holder with Nadeem Mohammad
being the contact person about licensing there.
-- Daniel, Epic Games Inc.
---
This SF.net
Am Samstag, 27. Dezember 2003 02:47 schrieb Roland Scheidegger:
Dieter Nützel wrote:
Am Freitag, 26. Dezember 2003 17:46 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
Just wanted to say that Roland's S3TC patches work incredibly well on my
8500 with NWN. I can now get just as high quality textures with the DRI
Message -
From: Dieter Nützel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Roland Scheidegger [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Adam K Kirchhoff [EMAIL PROTECTED];
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2003 10:57 PM
Subject: Re: [Dri-devel] S3TC NWN.
Am Samstag, 27. Dezember 2003 02:47 schrieb Roland Scheidegger
Am Freitag, 26. Dezember 2003 17:46 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
Just wanted to say that Roland's S3TC patches work incredibly well on my
8500 with NWN. I can now get just as high quality textures with the DRI
drivers as I do with the FireGL drivers :-)
Roland, do you have a new version (after
Dieter Nützel wrote:
Am Freitag, 26. Dezember 2003 17:46 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
Just wanted to say that Roland's S3TC patches work incredibly well on my
8500 with NWN. I can now get just as high quality textures with the DRI
drivers as I do with the FireGL drivers :-)
Roland, do you have a
Jacek Popawski wrote:
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 02:43:09AM +0100, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
and I don't know if any open-source
compressors exist which could easily be included in mesa
Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not going to comment on any of the IP
legality of this patch. I am in no way offering any form of legal
advice. I do have a comment about the correctness of it that may also
apply to similar future (i.e., FXT1) patches.
Roland Scheidegger wrote:
Index:
Ian Romanick wrote:
Since I'm not a lawyer, I'm not going to comment on any of the IP
legality of this patch. I am in no way offering any form of legal
advice. I do have a comment about the correctness of it that may also
apply to similar future (i.e., FXT1) patches.
Roland Scheidegger
Roland Scheidegger wrote:
Ian Romanick wrote:
This is wrong, and may break valid applications. The supported
compressed formats should be listed no matter what.
Ok, I'll drop that. It was really just a crazy idea, though I've figured
out it won't do any good anyways (apps like QuakeIII will
On Thu, Dec 18, 2003 at 02:43:09AM +0100, Roland Scheidegger wrote:
and I don't know if any open-source
compressors exist which could easily be included in mesa
Am Dienstag, 15. Juli 2003 16:08 schrieb Marci:
Hi all , I've read on the FAQ page of dri.sf.net of the possibility to use
FXT1 in order to decompress S3TC textures , but I haven't understand well
if this is possible or not
Read the archive:
http://marc.theaimsgroup.com/?l=dri-develr=1w=2
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 06:44:05PM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote:
Sven Luther wrote:
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 09:48:42AM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote:
What about apps that send uncompressed textures into the driver, expect
the driver to compress then, and then read the textures back? According
Sven Luther wrote:
Is there not a way to work around this ?
If the hardware doesn't support s3tc, then the driver simply don't
advertize the that it can handle s3tc textures, so you would get out of
the need to decompress the textures in the driver. On the other hand, if
it is not possible to
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 09:48:42AM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote:
Sven Luther wrote:
Is there not a way to work around this ?
If the hardware doesn't support s3tc, then the driver simply don't
advertize the that it can handle s3tc textures, so you would get out of
the need to decompress the
Sven Luther wrote:
On Mon, Feb 24, 2003 at 09:48:42AM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote:
What about apps that send uncompressed textures into the driver, expect
the driver to compress then, and then read the textures back? According
to the spec, the textures app will read-back compressed data. I
Am Donnerstag, 19. Dezember 2002 19:02 schrieb Alan Cox:
On Thu, 2002-12-19 at 04:40, Dieter Nützel wrote:
But without kidding, couldn't you as THE well known OSS proponent get in
contact with VIA the owner of S3?
Several people (even Brian Paul) tried to get some wisdom out of them but
On Sun, 2003-02-23 at 11:24, Dieter Ntzel wrote:
I have a meeting with the vice president of VIA scheduled on Jan 2nd or
3rd. Thats not public info and S3TC isnt the primary item but I will
mention it.
Sorry, second try. I had forgotten to CC DRI-Devel.
Alan,
what came out of this?
Can we add this to the FAQ, please?
The FAQ is editable by anyone isn't it?
No, but anyone can add a FAQ, if they could edit / delete them that would
be none too wise, which is why I advise not to mess it up (because then I
have to fix it).
Liam
it depends
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 03:27:21PM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote:
Now, if an OpenGL application has a pile of textures already
compressed with the S3TC algorithm, then I don't understand why the
dri drivers can't simply offer the S3TC interfaces to the hardware,
pass the compressed textures to the
OK, I don't exactly want to stir up this hornets nest *again*, but a
couple of things aren't entirely clear to me and I'd appreciate any
clarifications.
As I understand it, the situation is as follows:
The S3TC algorithm is patented and therefore no-one can distribute an
On Fri, Feb 21, 2003 at 03:27:21PM -0800, Ian Romanick wrote:
Look at the ARB_texture_compression and EXT_texture_compression_s3tc
specs again. You can specify uncompressed textures and have the driver
compress the AND you can specify compressed textures and have the driver
decompress them
Daniel Vogel wrote:
i tried it again with the last couple of updates and it does load and
run i can configure it but it did freeze apon loading a level
i also noticed ut2k3's log full of
Log: OpenGL Error: GL_INVALID_ENUM (UOpenGLRenderDevice::Unlock)
(if anyone wants the full log let me know)
On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Ian Romanick wrote:
Daniel Vogel wrote:
i tried it again with the last couple of updates and it does load and
run i can configure it but it did freeze apon loading a level
i also noticed ut2k3's log full of
Log: OpenGL Error: GL_INVALID_ENUM
The only problem is that this extension is an X extension, and isn't
ATI recently promoted it to ATI_texture_env_combine3.
listed in the extension registry. The net result is that the enums for
it aren't in the standard glext.h file. I know that Brian hasn't
wanted to hand-edit glext.h in
On Sat, 2002-12-21 at 11:35, Bret Towe wrote:
On Sat, 2002-12-21 at 05:20, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Hey folks,
Wasn't sure if you guys were aware of this, but there's a new
patch out for ut2k that removes the requirement for an OpenGL driver which
supports S3TC.
I
magenta wrote:
On Sat, Dec 21, 2002 at 08:20:59AM -0500, Adam K Kirchhoff wrote:
Hey folks,
Wasn't sure if you guys were aware of this, but there's a new
patch out for ut2k that removes the requirement for an OpenGL driver which
supports S3TC.
I applied the patch and attempted to play the
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like they've patched the demo... I'm not
sure if they have any plans on doing so.
Adam
On Sat, 21 Dec 2002, Dieter [iso-8859-1] Nützel wrote:
Am Samstag, 21. Dezember 2002 14:20 schrieb Adam K Kirchhoff:
Hey folks,
Wasn't sure if you guys were aware
Am Freitag, 20. Dezember 2002 14:38 schrieb Alexander Stohr:
[-]
And thats why all the world on the stock marked emphasizes on their
patents protfolio, its money and power that those patenst sometimes
do represent. Of course there is much vapourware, but such key
technologies like S3TC that
On Fri, 20 Dec 2002, Dieter [iso-8859-1] Nützel wrote:
Am Freitag, 20. Dezember 2002 14:38 schrieb Alexander Stohr:
[-]
And thats why all the world on the stock marked emphasizes on their
patents protfolio, its money and power that those patenst sometimes
do represent. Of course
On Fri, Dec 20, 2002 at 03:29:35PM +0100, Dieter Nützel wrote:
Am Freitag, 20. Dezember 2002 14:38 schrieb Alexander Stohr:
[-]
And thats why all the world on the stock marked emphasizes on their
patents protfolio, its money and power that those patenst sometimes
do represent. Of
On Wednesday 18 December 2002 11:20 pm, you wrote:
On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 08:10:30PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
You have to balance things out. Yes, the US is litiginous, and clearly way
too much so. Is the answer to just cower in a hole and hope it passes?
Maybe. And maybe not.
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, magenta wrote:
Also, what about doing hardware-only support, and just breaking for
software fallback? Then it'd be up to the hardware (which ostensibly has a
license) to implement the algorithm.
That sounds like a good approach (and almost certainly acceptable for
On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 10:59:24AM -0800, Andy Ross wrote:
And there is no one involved with DRI with assets to
pay such an award anyway.
Except all the distros.
--
Smile! http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap990315.html
---
This SF.NET
On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 10:59:24AM -0800, Andy Ross wrote:
magenta wrote:
You don't understand how patents work, do you? All of those people
(except OpenIL, anyway) have licensed the algorithm itself. The
algorithm is freely-available (it's even part of the patent
documents). The
magenta wrote:
But they're not transferring the license to others, they're just
providing a reference implementation. nVidia themselves wouldn't be
sued for it, but someone releasing new software using that
implementation could be.
By that same logic, DRI can't be sued for providing the code
On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 11:32:02AM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
On Thu, 19 Dec 2002, Ian Romanick wrote:
On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 10:59:24AM -0800, Andy Ross wrote:
And there is no one involved with DRI with assets to
pay such an award anyway.
Except all the distros.
I think
On Thu, Dec 19, 2002 at 12:43:48PM -0800, Andy Ross wrote:
magenta wrote:
But they're not transferring the license to others, they're just
providing a reference implementation. nVidia themselves wouldn't be
sued for it, but someone releasing new software using that
implementation
On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 10:14:16PM -0500, Geoffrey Antos wrote:
I believe that it is safe to go ahead and implement S3TC texture
decompression code in DRI.
snip
Thus, there are many indications that S3TC can be used for Open Source
projects without fear.
You don't understand how patents
On Wed, 18 Dec 2002, magenta wrote:
By implementing S3TC without a patent license, the DRI team would be
opening the DRI project up for potential litigation.
On the other hand, by being too timid, the DRI team can also eventually
doom itself to obscurity. If everybody else supports S3TC, and
On Wed, Dec 18, 2002 at 08:10:30PM -0800, Linus Torvalds wrote:
You have to balance things out. Yes, the US is litiginous, and clearly way
too much so. Is the answer to just cower in a hole and hope it passes?
Maybe. And maybe not.
Maybe the proper course of action would be to try to come up
On Thu, 2002-11-07 at 09:34, Ian Molton wrote:
If anyone can do this before christmas, I can put it on my server here
in the UK, where it is (until about christmas) still legal to reverse
engineer for the purposes of fair use (ie. using the hardware you
purchased).
It is after christmas as
On Thu, 7 Nov 2002 01:40:15 +0100
Dieter Nützel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
No progress. I've pinged S3 every two weeks or so, but haven't
received a reply since over a month ago.
Sad, very sad...
...it seems to me that we do NOT get much ear at VIA/S3.
I'll do not buy any products
Am Donnerstag, 7. November 2002 01:25 schrieb Brian Paul:
Dieter Nützel wrote:
Thanks,
Dieter
PS Just another XFree86 release without UT2003 etc...?
No progress. I've pinged S3 every two weeks or so, but haven't received
a reply since over a month ago.
Sad, very sad...
...it
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