Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
Barry wrote: B The other big factor is the need for so many to work every band-mode B combination. While I can understand wanting a QWSO on each band and B mode, is EVERY combination necessary? For example, if you worked them B on 20 SSB, 40 CW, and 15 RTTY, do you also feel obligated to fill in the B 20 CW and 20 RTTY slots, too? If so, why? Not only that but even working EVERY DXpedition on EVERY slot. Thats what the Clublog is provoking with its leaderboard, thats why I call it evil. -- R8TX (ex RX9TX) http://r8tx.qrz.ru --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
Hi, When working from home I am using a low profile station now: 100W and LongWire. But I noticed many times that if I can't work a DXpedition it is not a problem that I have no enough output power and they can't hear me. Very often it mean rather that oters have too much output power. It is sometimes nice to have skimmer or cluster spots but too often they are used insted of using VFO and listening. I was lucky to start DXing when I had no access to a cluster. I was using my VFO to find a pile-up. Next I was listening to find what is the DX call and learn the operating style of the DX. More about skimmers and clusters... Some time ago during one of the CQWW SSB events a friend of mine made a simple trick. He spotted himself on the cluster using a dummy, not real callsign however that call was a rare multiplier. Right after sending the spot, he heard stations calling the dummy call on the spotted frequency. So he started to operate giving contest reports but he had never sent the call. He was called by several dozen of stations. Next he disappeared from the QRG. After the contest he checked the 3830 and found many of his correspondents claiming the score as Unassisted. 73 SP5UAF -Oryginalna wiadomość- From: Barry Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 3:46 PM To: rjai...@gmail.com ; Dx-Chat Subject: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating As a former big gun in a good location, now a little pistol in a bad location, I can say I find the current state of DXing very discouraging. The instant bedlam generated by the Cluster and skimmer networks makes it very difficult for the little guys. The other big factor is the need for so many to work every band-mode combination. While I can understand wanting a QWSO on each band and mode, is EVERY combination necessary? For example, if you worked them on 20 SSB, 40 CW, and 15 RTTY, do you also feel obligated to fill in the 20 CW and 20 RTTY slots, too? If so, why? Fortunately, there's not much I need any more, so I haven't even bothered chasing most of the DXpeds in the last few years. Barry W2UP On 12/12/2012 07:20, Ryan Jairam wrote: From those whom I have spoken to, they absolutely do NOT just work the big guns. In fact, having a variable split makes a big station less useful than it could be. They absolutely do listen to the little pistol guys. The biggest challenge I've had was finding a good split frequency and often the one that nobody is calling on is the one that gets me in the log. Watch some of those DXpedition videos and you'll see how they do it. Some DXpeditions use set split patterns, but others spin the knob, sort of like they were SPing. Just be patient and they'll find you. Of course, don't expect that you'll win versus the guy with a kilowatt and a tower. Head to head he's going to crush you. But you can get in the log if you think outside the box a little. I worked DXCC mobile, so I know all about being at a distinct disadvantage... I won't lie, I make more than one QSO and try to fill up band/mode combos as much as I can. If I plan to pursue CW/Phone awards in the future it will be useful. I'm doing less of that now, but still trying to get as many challenge points as I can. But I don't spend hours in a pileup, so I don't see how I'm setting anyone back. Usually I am in the log in a few minutes. 73 Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Robert rc...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry Bert, I'll have to respectfully disagree. While DXing is a competitive sport, it shouldn't be based on who can afford a 30 meter tower with stacked beams and a 1500W amp. Sure, those gentlemen will be making the first contacts with the DX stations - it's only logical. However, there are many more ops that have the 100W with a dipole and have worked hard just to get that. They deserve a fighting chance, not a give-a-way, just a chance. It's hard for a new ham to get excited about DXing if all they get to do is listen to stations making insurance contacts. Robert - N9EF On Dec 12, 2012, at 6:12 AM, Bert Garcia n...@earthlink.net wrote: In my opinion I think DXing is fine the way it is. We don’t need any once per mode or once per band rules. If we do need those rules, perhaps ARRL should restructure the Challenge Award and only permit once per mode or once per band to count for each DX callsign. There are many facets to ham radio. Making rules to ensure the 100W/dipole weekend DXer gets a contact shouldn’t be a priority to a DXpedition. DXing is a competitive sport. Be polite when you’re on the air – all bands, all modes. Bert N8NN From: Peter W2IRT Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:23 AM To: dx-n...@njdxa.org Subject: RE: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating My opinion on this is pretty simple, and I've stated it repeatedly. For something in high demand (top-25 entity, for example) there have to be some clearly communicated goals from the outset
RE: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
The leaderboard thing isn't all that bad *IF* the DX wants to allow it and encourages it. If you're running an operation like HK0NA, 7O6T or T32C -- big, loud and there for a long time, I don't see the harm in it. Some operations are looking for a new DXpedition record. On the other hand, a couple of guys on rocks off the Brazilian coast may not want that level of activity. But it's up to the DXpedition leaders to set forth the goals and communicate them to the world before and during the operation. I'm a big greenie-hunter. I like fighting pileups and I'm glad the Clublog structure is there. But with that said, I *do* see the downsides and I would implore both Clublog and DXpedition leaders to come up with a way to show contacts but not a full matrix if that's the wish of a DXpedition. If I had a say in a big DXpedition, I'd welcome all comers on all bands, but if It was just me and a couple of buddies heading off to a less-common entity in the Pacific or Asia, I wouldn't want that same goal. Regards, Peter Dougherty, W2IRT www.facebook.com/W2IRT Barry wrote: B The other big factor is the need for so many to work every B band-mode combination. While I can understand wanting a QWSO on each B band and mode, is EVERY combination necessary? For example, if you B worked them on 20 SSB, 40 CW, and 15 RTTY, do you also feel obligated B to fill in the B 20 CW and 20 RTTY slots, too? If so, why? Not only that but even working EVERY DXpedition on EVERY slot. Thats what the Clublog is provoking with its leaderboard, thats why I call it evil. -- R8TX (ex RX9TX) http://r8tx.qrz.ru --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
At 07:15 12/12/2012, Gary wrote: . Vince K5VT - SK would really do something neat. Vince would have this huge CW pileup going, and send 32. I'd spin the dial up to 32 and call once. Bingo! Reward for actually LISTENING to the DX op 73, Gary K7ZD This works great on SSB too. The one time I was the DX (C9) after a while I would announce a new split every 2-3 calls. Those who listened got the new split and got right into the log. Those that didn't, didn't. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE Programming since 1961 All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
Gary, Jim Smith (VK9NS - SK) would at times simply send D5. Those who were paying attention would drop down 5 and snag him. 73 Tony , W4FOA - Original Message - From: Gary k...@k7zd.com To: Dx-Chat dx-chat@njdxa.org Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 10:15:05 AM Subject: Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating Barry, you read my mind.. thanks! Certain DXpedition ops (i.e. Vince K5VT - SK) would really do something neat. Vince would have this huge CW pileup going, and send 32. I'd spin the dial up to 32 and call once. Bingo! Reward for actually LISTENING to the DX op 73, Gary K7ZD On 12/12/2012 7:46 AM, Barry wrote: As a former big gun in a good location, now a little pistol in a bad location, I can say I find the current state of DXing very discouraging. The instant bedlam generated by the Cluster and skimmer networks makes it very difficult for the little guys. The other big factor is the need for so many to work every band-mode combination. While I can understand wanting a QWSO on each band and mode, is EVERY combination necessary? For example, if you worked them on 20 SSB, 40 CW, and 15 RTTY, do you also feel obligated to fill in the 20 CW and 20 RTTY slots, too? If so, why? Fortunately, there's not much I need any more, so I haven't even bothered chasing most of the DXpeds in the last few years. Barry W2UP On 12/12/2012 07:20, Ryan Jairam wrote: From those whom I have spoken to, they absolutely do NOT just work the big guns. In fact, having a variable split makes a big station less useful than it could be. They absolutely do listen to the little pistol guys. The biggest challenge I've had was finding a good split frequency and often the one that nobody is calling on is the one that gets me in the log. Watch some of those DXpedition videos and you'll see how they do it. Some DXpeditions use set split patterns, but others spin the knob, sort of like they were SPing. Just be patient and they'll find you. Of course, don't expect that you'll win versus the guy with a kilowatt and a tower. Head to head he's going to crush you. But you can get in the log if you think outside the box a little. I worked DXCC mobile, so I know all about being at a distinct disadvantage... I won't lie, I make more than one QSO and try to fill up band/mode combos as much as I can. If I plan to pursue CW/Phone awards in the future it will be useful. I'm doing less of that now, but still trying to get as many challenge points as I can. But I don't spend hours in a pileup, so I don't see how I'm setting anyone back. Usually I am in the log in a few minutes. 73 Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Robert rc...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry Bert, I'll have to respectfully disagree. While DXing is a competitive sport, it shouldn't be based on who can afford a 30 meter tower with stacked beams and a 1500W amp. Sure, those gentlemen will be making the first contacts with the DX stations - it's only logical. However, there are many more ops that have the 100W with a dipole and have worked hard just to get that. They deserve a fighting chance, not a give-a-way, just a chance. It's hard for a new ham to get excited about DXing if all they get to do is listen to stations making insurance contacts. Robert - N9EF On Dec 12, 2012, at 6:12 AM, Bert Garcia n...@earthlink.net wrote: In my opinion I think DXing is fine the way it is. We don’t need any once per mode or once per band rules. If we do need those rules, perhaps ARRL should restructure the Challenge Award and only permit once per mode or once per band to count for each DX callsign. There are many facets to ham radio. Making rules to ensure the 100W/dipole weekend DXer gets a contact shouldn’t be a priority to a DXpedition. DXing is a competitive sport. Be polite when you’re on the air – all bands, all modes. Bert N8NN From: Peter W2IRT Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:23 AM To: dx-n...@njdxa.org Subject: RE: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating My opinion on this is pretty simple, and I've stated it repeatedly. For something in high demand (top-25 entity, for example) there have to be some clearly communicated goals from the outset. Establish those goals, do what you can to communicate them loudly and clearly to The Deserving and don't deviate from your plan unless your pilots convey critical information or your rates show a need to change. Be LOUD, work the areas with the best rates for as long as you can. Focus on the hardest-to-work region as propagation opens. Here's how I'd do it. 1) Priority is as many unique as possible for all time new ones 2) Once per mode and/or 3) At most once per band This means either no clublog greenies or work with the Clublog developer to come up
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
Even without the DXpedition resorting to antics such as this, I agree fully that listening generally yields positive results. 73 Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Dave Gomberg da...@wcf.com wrote: At 07:15 12/12/2012, Gary wrote: . Vince K5VT - SK would really do something neat. Vince would have this huge CW pileup going, and send 32. I'd spin the dial up to 32 and call once. Bingo! Reward for actually LISTENING to the DX op 73, Gary K7ZD This works great on SSB too. The one time I was the DX (C9) after a while I would announce a new split every 2-3 calls. Those who listened got the new split and got right into the log. Those that didn't, didn't. -- Dave Gomberg, San Francisco NE5EE Programming since 1961 All addresses, phones, etc. at http://www.wcf.com/ham/info.html - --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org --- -- Ryan A. Jairam --- To unsubscribe or subscribe to this list. Please send a message to imail...@njdxa.org In the message body put either unsubscribe dx-chat or subscribe dx-chat This is the DX-CHAT reflector sponsored by the NJDXA http://njdxa.org ---
Re: [DX-CHAT] Re: [SPAM]Re: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating
Ron, ZL1AMO did something similar. He had a habit of listening down 1 when sending UP. Barry W2UP On 12/12/2012 08:15, Gary wrote: Barry, you read my mind.. thanks! Certain DXpedition ops (i.e. Vince K5VT - SK) would really do something neat. Vince would have this huge CW pileup going, and send 32. I'd spin the dial up to 32 and call once. Bingo! Reward for actually LISTENING to the DX op 73, Gary K7ZD On 12/12/2012 7:46 AM, Barry wrote: As a former big gun in a good location, now a little pistol in a bad location, I can say I find the current state of DXing very discouraging. The instant bedlam generated by the Cluster and skimmer networks makes it very difficult for the little guys. The other big factor is the need for so many to work every band-mode combination. While I can understand wanting a QWSO on each band and mode, is EVERY combination necessary? For example, if you worked them on 20 SSB, 40 CW, and 15 RTTY, do you also feel obligated to fill in the 20 CW and 20 RTTY slots, too? If so, why? Fortunately, there's not much I need any more, so I haven't even bothered chasing most of the DXpeds in the last few years. Barry W2UP On 12/12/2012 07:20, Ryan Jairam wrote: From those whom I have spoken to, they absolutely do NOT just work the big guns. In fact, having a variable split makes a big station less useful than it could be. They absolutely do listen to the little pistol guys. The biggest challenge I've had was finding a good split frequency and often the one that nobody is calling on is the one that gets me in the log. Watch some of those DXpedition videos and you'll see how they do it. Some DXpeditions use set split patterns, but others spin the knob, sort of like they were SPing. Just be patient and they'll find you. Of course, don't expect that you'll win versus the guy with a kilowatt and a tower. Head to head he's going to crush you. But you can get in the log if you think outside the box a little. I worked DXCC mobile, so I know all about being at a distinct disadvantage... I won't lie, I make more than one QSO and try to fill up band/mode combos as much as I can. If I plan to pursue CW/Phone awards in the future it will be useful. I'm doing less of that now, but still trying to get as many challenge points as I can. But I don't spend hours in a pileup, so I don't see how I'm setting anyone back. Usually I am in the log in a few minutes. 73 Ryan, N2RJ On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Robert rc...@yahoo.com wrote: Sorry Bert, I'll have to respectfully disagree. While DXing is a competitive sport, it shouldn't be based on who can afford a 30 meter tower with stacked beams and a 1500W amp. Sure, those gentlemen will be making the first contacts with the DX stations - it's only logical. However, there are many more ops that have the 100W with a dipole and have worked hard just to get that. They deserve a fighting chance, not a give-a-way, just a chance. It's hard for a new ham to get excited about DXing if all they get to do is listen to stations making insurance contacts. Robert - N9EF On Dec 12, 2012, at 6:12 AM, Bert Garcia n...@earthlink.net wrote: In my opinion I think DXing is fine the way it is. We don’t need any once per mode or once per band rules. If we do need those rules, perhaps ARRL should restructure the Challenge Award and only permit once per mode or once per band to count for each DX callsign. There are many facets to ham radio. Making rules to ensure the 100W/dipole weekend DXer gets a contact shouldn’t be a priority to a DXpedition. DXing is a competitive sport. Be polite when you’re on the air – all bands, all modes. Bert N8NN From: Peter W2IRT Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2012 12:23 AM To: dx-n...@njdxa.org Subject: RE: [DX-NEWS] Best Practices for DXpedition Operating My opinion on this is pretty simple, and I've stated it repeatedly. For something in high demand (top-25 entity, for example) there have to be some clearly communicated goals from the outset. Establish those goals, do what you can to communicate them loudly and clearly to The Deserving and don't deviate from your plan unless your pilots convey critical information or your rates show a need to change. Be LOUD, work the areas with the best rates for as long as you can. Focus on the hardest-to-work region as propagation opens. Here's how I'd do it. 1) Priority is as many unique as possible for all time new ones 2) Once per mode and/or 3) At most once per band This means either no clublog greenies or work with the Clublog developer to come up with a module that shows bands and modes worked, but not a full band-mode matrix. The Plan: Planners must fully understand that there are three major centres of ham populations. NA, EU and JA. Within each major center is East Coast NA, West coast, central; Northern Europe, Southern Europe, Eastern Europe (and western Asia); JA stands by itself. NOT to marginalize SA, VK/ZL, OC and AF, but the highest
