Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-15 Thread ajsiegel
What I glean from studying Guido's, Alan's and Bruce Eckel's writings, is this thing about late binding. You do it all in runtime, basically. You get to be dynamic, aren't under the thumb of a finicky compiler that requires you to predeclare, and thence to "nail down" all your code. Nope,

Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-15 Thread Guido van Rossum
On 7/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I *do* acknowledge to Mr. Kay exactly what he asks to have acknowledged - he is in a class of his own. . No - he needn't care that he offends me. What I am thoroughly confused about - in all honesty - is that I seem to be the exception

Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-15 Thread kirby urner
On 7/15/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I glean from studying Guido's, Alan's and Bruce Eckel's writings, is this thing about late binding. You do it all in runtime, basically. You get to be dynamic, aren't under the thumb of a finicky compiler that requires you to

Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-14 Thread kirby urner
Having said that, I still think there is a tension between two approaches. One is getting people to invest a modicum of effort up from to learn a small set of good tools like Smalltalk had even 30 years ago (browser, inspector, debugger and transcript being the core ones) to give a consistent

Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-14 Thread kirby urner
On 7/14/06, kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 7/14/06, kirby urner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't get the impression Alan Kay is leading the Smalltalk community anymore. He told us at the summit that he's a SmallTalk slayer. Also, the slayer moniker isn't completely out of the

[Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-13 Thread Paul D. Fernhout
While looking around the web looking at issues related to Squeak and Python and 3D GUI issues(*), I came across this: The Keyhole Problem. http://www.aristeia.com/TKP/ From there: This is the web page for my current book project, The Keyhole Problem. The book explains how some kinds of

Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-13 Thread Andre Roberge
Guido van Rossum (on CP4E, in 2000): ... The two major research goals are the development of a prototype of a new programming curriculum and matching prototype software comprising a highly user-friendly programming environment... First, the environment must significantly ease the burden of

Re: [Edu-sig] The keyhole problem and learning environments

2006-07-13 Thread kirby urner
On 7/13/06, Andre Roberge [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is the philosophy that was behind rur-ple. Users starts writing simple programs in the robot world, with very few instructions. However, unlike with Guido van Robot which uses a Python-like syntax, rur-ple uses Python through and