Hi Wayne
Wowa major upgrade, my two cents... a must have, TX phase noise is the
most annoying side effect in ham bands today, major advantage in SO2R's
configs. Wayne a quick question, are in stock? Waiting times? Some preliminary
measurements eventually some side-by-side numbers?
Tnxvy 73
Wayne,
That sounds interesting. Before investing in two modules I'd like to
know how much the dynamic range will change. Could you share some
relevant measurements?
73
Arie PA3A
Wayne Burdick schreef op 13-2-2015 om 7:07:
* ULTRA-LOW PHASE NOISE
The KSYN3A significantly improves the
Is it worth the $400 bucks?
K2TTT
Sent from my Verizon Wireless 4G LTE smartphone
Original message
From: Barry w...@comcast.net
Date:02/13/2015 7:52 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Upgraded K3 synthesizer module now available: The
I have the KBPF3 in both my Mani and Sub Receivers so I'm hoping they will go
down to 100KHz
I also wish I had known about this because it's something I've wanted for a
long time (to be able to Receive LF)
From: Terry Hart terry.h...@btinternet.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent:
Wayne - thanks - news of the new K3 Synthesizer is very exciting! And I
will be very interested in the Sherwood testing of the K3 with the new
board.
Question: how hard is it to install it in the K3? And how hard to
install in the sub receiver?
You say a K3 with Sub-receiver needs both to
I did. Then I looked at the other posts and quickly deleted mine.
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of David
Ahrendts
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 8:50 AM
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: [Elecraft] #WorldRadioDay
If ya Twitter, it
What makes this desirable to me (If I'm reading this right) is the ability to
be able to receive down to 100KHz.
I've been working on designing a RX (and possible TX) converter so this is very
desirable to me.
From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
To: Elecraft Reflector
If ya Twitter, it is this very day: World Radio Day. Put a pix of your ELECRAFT
rig on Twitter, hash tag WorldRadioDay.
David Ahrendts davidahren...@me.com
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The extension of operation to 100-KHz is a terrific addition for
those of us using the 600m band. FCC approval for experimental
licensed stations on 472-478 KHz has seen a major move of activity to
this new sub-band which left users of the K3 out (the old lower limit
of 490-KHz).
I will
Hello Wayne,
It is good to see improvement in RX phase noise which will affect the
reciprocal noise mixing.
Could you put the improvement in layman terms? For example, in the original
KSYN3, a weak CW signal could be heard 10Khz away from a S9+60db signal, under
the new KSYN3A, what
so no more phase noise limitation in DR and IMD?...that's gonna be fun, coz now
there is a lot of buzz with new 7850 super low noise LO, so 200 bucks update K3
is gonna stay shoulder to shoulder with a 10k limited quantity radio...so here
is my bet...won't wait for test results and gonna order
Wat is involved, technically in performing the upgrade - is it simply
swapping out a board?
Barry W2UP
--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Upgraded-K3-synthesizer-module-now-available-The-KSYN3A-tp7598267p7598270.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list
Dang, I just put the sub receiver in last week I should have waited
From: Wayne Burdick n...@elecraft.com
To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net;
elecraft...@yahoogroups.com elecraft...@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 1:07 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] Upgraded
Barry -
From Wayne's post...
See feature list below. Ordering and installation instructions can be found
here:
http://www.elecraft.com/order_form_parts.htm#K3%20Parts
773, Mike NF4L
On Feb 13, 2015, at 7:52 AM, Barry w...@comcast.net wrote:
Wat is involved, technically in performing the
I guess it's semantics. If an undesired output event causes a corrective action
to be taken in a previous stage isn't this a closed loop? I believe it is, even
if it's a man-in-the-loop system, i.e. I see on the oscilloscope that I'm flat
topping so I turn the audio gain down to correct it.
---and I just received my K3 kit serial number 8795. I had no idea this was
coming up!
The extended receiver tuning down to 100KHz sounds
interestingwhat are the front-end filtering arrangements for that, I
wonder? And it would be interesting to see some comparative close-in phase
noise
Good Morning:
Well Elecraft opened 14 minutes ago and I ordered two of the KSYN3A
Modules. I am ready to give them a try in both the main and
sub-receiver of my K3. looks like a fantastic upgrade!
Bruce N9BX 73
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Elecraft mailing
same here 2xKSYN3A ...gonne be shipped on Tue coz Monday is long weekend vy 73
de VE3GNO Daniel
From: Bruce Osterberg n9b...@gmail.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 11:15 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 KSYN3A Synthesizer Module Ordered
Good Morning:
Well
Dear OMs,
I will follow this thread for a while. It would be nice to know more
about the performance enhancement as Johnny Siu has stated.
What I am really chuffed about is that Wayne, Eric and company are
enhancing a radio which has been on the market perhaps seven years now.
Oh I
Same here, though I only need one. I do wonder if
I'll notice the difference -- but keeping my K3 at
its best is a priority, so .
Phil W7OX
On 2/13/15 8:15 AM, Bruce Osterberg wrote:
Good Morning:
Well Elecraft opened 14 minutes ago and I
ordered two of the KSYN3A Modules. I am ready
http://www.elecraft.com/order_form_parts.htm#K3%20Parts
On 2/13/15 9:32 AM, Jorge Diez - CX6VM wrote:
where´s the link of the KSYN3A?
thanks,
Jorge
2015-02-13 15:08 GMT-02:00 Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com:
Same here, though I only need one. I do wonder if I'll notice the
difference -- but
Test
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My opinion which may or may not be worth 2 cents:
The KX3 seems to satisfy many who would otherwise be buying a K3,
maybe a K2 or K1. To me the KX3 is a fabulous affordable QRP rig.
However nice that tiny wonder is, I prefer the larger K3 with its
greater choices and options which I find most
I hope some side by side specs show up, like I mentioned to upgrade for
me would
be 800 bucks, 2 radios, not going to do that without some solid proof
of what I am
getting, no complaints at all, just like to see what I should expect.
How about a new mixer board? Present one can be
In response to a gazillion questions:
* * *
Q: What is involved in upgrading from the KSYN3 to the KSYN3A?
A: The KSYN3A plugs into the same connectors as the KSYN3s for the main and
sub synthesizers. There are minor differences in cable routing that are covered
in the accompanying
On Fri,2/13/2015 6:56 AM, VE3GNO Daniel via Elecraft wrote:
that's gonna be fun, coz now there is a lot of buzz with new 7850 super low
noise LO,
Um -- when ARRL tested the Icom 7800 and 7600 rigs, they were among the
poorest performers with respect to transmitted noise. I suspect that the
where´s the link of the KSYN3A?
thanks,
Jorge
2015-02-13 15:08 GMT-02:00 Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com:
Same here, though I only need one. I do wonder if I'll notice the
difference -- but keeping my K3 at its best is a priority, so .
Phil W7OX
On 2/13/15 8:15 AM, Bruce Osterberg
What is the passband of the filtering engaged in the KBPF3 when
operating at 630M? The concern at this band in many locations is BCB
intermod, and generally an LPF is used in the RX chain. Is it not of
concern based on on-air tests, perhaps KBPF3 is on the table for an
upgrade, or an
Me three, Just ordered two KSYN3A and a 2nd AM filter for diversity
while SWLing Broadcast stations and eventually operation on 600M. Now
to find an appropriate schematic writeup on making a worthy amp for
600M that will utilize the 1.0 mW that the k3 will generate on that
frequency.
It's my
This was one of the very reasons that I finally moved to Elecraft and sold
my last 2 FTDX-5000MP's several yrs ago and have plans on returning. Most
all Elecraft gear here as far as radios except for an IC-9100 which there
are no replacements for.
May they continue their present business model,
Yes, Gary, Right! :-)
73, Phil W7OX
On 2/13/15 9:28 AM, Gary Smith wrote:
Me three, Just ordered two KSYN3A and a 2nd AM filter for diversity
while SWLing Broadcast stations and eventually operation on 600M. Now
to find an appropriate schematic writeup on making a worthy amp for
600M that
Test
- Original Message -
From: elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.netmailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net
To: krenner1...@msn.commailto:krenner1...@msn.com
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 9:57 AM
Subject: Elecraft@mailman.qth.netmailto:Elecraft@mailman.qth.net mailing list
Merv,
We have done our own tests of the I7SWX mixer, and while we saw some
improvement in dynamic range, it came at the expense of worse MDS. The jury is
still out. Our present mixer does an excellent job.
73,
Wayne
N6KR
On Feb 13, 2015, at 9:47 AM, Merv Schweigert k...@flex.com wrote:
I am using a Power Bank model MP-16000 Lithium Polymer battery to run
the KX3. This appears to now be furnished by Maxtron as the MX160A
power bank at $128 on Amazon. It is lightweight (1.1 lbs) and is about
the size of a paperback book.
Last night I ran the KX3 with backlight on for 3.5
On Fri,2/13/2015 10:27 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
The limiting factor would then be how clean everyone else's signals are.
And in the real world, this is the limiting factor. In my real world,
it's an IC7600 with a legal limit amp ten miles away.
Your own transmit signal will be cleaner
Both synthesizers must be of the same type.
73,
Wayne
N6KR
On Feb 13, 2015, at 12:04 PM, Phil Wheeler w...@socal.rr.com wrote:
Apparently to save $200 :-)
In this vein, I wonder what would happen if you updated the main RX but left
the sub RX as is? Question for Wayne, I guess.
I've had my K3 about a year now and Unless something drastically changes I
highly doubt I'd changeAt first I was surprised at it's size, but now I like
that size and really don't want it larger.
I also like that it's modular (K3, P3, KPA500, KAT500, Etc.).
I think what appeals to me most is
The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save $200
bucks and upgrade the main synth only. I can see a lot of second receivers on
eBay.
R Thorpe K6CG
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Good idea. One of our engineers will be assigned to this when he comes up for
air.
Wayne
N6KR
On Feb 13, 2015, at 10:58 AM, mstang...@comcast.net [Elecraft_K3]
elecraft...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Wayne,
While we have your attention...do you have updated schematics for the K3,
including
The KBPF3's lowest-frequency filter has a nominal passband of 0.5-2 MHz. The
rolloff is not particularly steep, but this is the reason that the MDS at 250
kHz is -90 dBm, while it's -125 dBm at 450 kHz.
Intermod should rarely be a factor because of the K3's very robust front end.
Those living
Another interesting issue regarding the Flex 6xxx series (and radios with a
similar direct-digital-sampling RF architecture) is that A/D Limit descriptor
in the blocking dynamic range column in Sherwood's chart. An ADC limit is a
hard one; it does not gracefully soft-limit in the presence of
Why remove it?
The sub receiver is very nice
From: Richard Thorpe kisso...@gmail.com
To: Elecraft List elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 2:15 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
The most cost effective thing to do is to remove the sub-receive and save $200
bucks
Wayne,
A: With preamp OFF, we measured about -125 dBm at 475 kHz and -90
dBm at 250 kHz. We have not measured MDS below 250 kHz, but the
receiver will gradually become less sensitive as you go lower in
frequency due to band-pass filter rolloff (in the KBPF3, which is
required for operation
On Feb 13, 2015, at 11:58 AM, 'Joe Subich, W4TV' li...@subich.com
[Elecraft_K3] elecraft...@yahoogroups.com wrote:
Wayne,
A: With preamp OFF, we measured about -125 dBm at 475 kHz and -90
dBm at 250 kHz. We have not measured MDS below 250 kHz, but the
receiver will gradually become
On 2015-02-13 1:03 PM, Fred Smith wrote:
Most all Elecraft gear here as far as radios except for an IC-9100
which there are no replacements for.
No Elecraft replacement for ... I plan to look carefully at the FT-991
tomorrow (Orlando Hamcation) as it seems to cover all the bases except
for
I have for sale LP - PAN -2, XONARU7 7.1 USB Sound Card.
$300.00 plus shipping. PAY PAL ONLY.
E-mail me off list. krenner1...@msn.commailto:krenner1...@msn.com
K0ARO Kurt
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My backup radio is a TS-590S, and I wish Kenwood had taken a similar approach
as Elecraft to upgrade it into the new TS-590SG. It's really admirable that
Elecraft decided not to take advantage of the advancements in technology to
generate additional revenue. These guys are really hams and
Apparently to save $200 :-)
In this vein, I wonder what would happen if you
updated the main RX but left the sub RX as is?
Question for Wayne, I guess.
Hypothetical in my case: I have only one
functional ear, so no sub RX. But my KSYN3A should
arrive late next week.
Phil W7OX
On 2/13/15
A couple comments to add to Wayne's:
1. How many of you have measured the noise floor below 500-KHz? I
have used my K3/10 and a SDR-IQ for receiving the 600m band for three
years. The SDR-IQ display is in dBm and very accurate. The receiver
MDS is -130 to -132 dBm at 500-KHz. The lowest
I am copying a reply I made on the 600m e-mail reflector as I think
it may answer some questions how the K3 is used down below 500-KHz:
To: Jim Miller jtmille...@gmail.com
Subject: Re: [600MRG] [Elecraft] Upgraded K3 synthesizer module now
available: The KSYN3A
One thing I couldn't see from the Elecraft web site: I have a
single receiver K3. If I install the KSYN3A, and later add a
second receiver, which synth do I get in that second receiver.
One advantage of the K3 is its Barbie Doll (tm) feature. I can
add pieces slowly to the radio and stay
Hi all,
I've updated the KSYN3A FAQ with the following information regarding testing of
a K3 with the new synthesizer performed by Rob Sherwood, NC0B.
* * *
Q: What is the approximate 2-kHz dynamic range (IMDDR3) of the K3 when using
the new synthesizer?
A: Our tests show in excess of 105 dB
I think the idea is to remove the sub receiver, sell it, and use the
proceeds to offset the cost of another option.
You see lots of second receivers on the bay because lots of people have
the same idea. Everyone selling reduces the people buying because the
are all coming out of the same
On 2015-02-13 2:37 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
And in the real world, this is the limiting factor. In my real
world, it's an IC7600 with a legal limit amp ten miles away.
Consider yourself lucky. In my real world, it's an IC-746 and legal
limit amp 0.65 miles away!
Yes. While I've seen statements
Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft a supply for those simple
wanting to add the KXR3 without doing the upgrade. Since they won't be
making more and hams are generically cheap, it will extend the K3 life
for those without a toy budget.
Best to ask Wayne if they can manage that
Doug,
JT-65, like all weak-signal modes, greatly benefits from low
phase-noise in a receiver (typically from the LO).
I operate 2m-eme with JT65 and will be very interested to see if I
can see improvement with the new synth.
Nor will I part with my sub-rcvr as its integral to my
On Feb 13, 2015, at 3:15 PM, Bill Frantz fra...@pwpconsult.com wrote:
One thing I couldn't see from the Elecraft web site: I have a single receiver
K3. If I install the KSYN3A, and later add a second receiver, which synth do
I get in that second receiver.
You'll get the new synth with the
I find it had to regard Elecraft-owning hams as
cheap, Rick :-)
Phil W7OX
On 2/13/15 2:49 PM, Rick WA6NHC wrote:
Not a totally useless idea, it gives Elecraft a
supply for those simple wanting to add the KXR3
without doing the upgrade. Since they won't be
making more and hams are
now we need a neat application for the old synth card
seems that there will be a few thousand available
What cool thing could we build in which to nest the olds synth card
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I talked to Elecraft and you must remove the second receiver not just unplug it
and remove its “old” synth board. Too bad, but for the times I use it a $200
upgrade is just too much, so I order one new synth board remove the two old
ones and the second receive, the “cost” of upgrading I guess.
Once I got the new synt's here I can donate my old ones back to elecraft just
in case they are running out of old ones...
vy 73 de VE3GNO Daniel
From: Bill NY9H n...@arrl.net
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 4:19 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
now we
On 2015-02-13 3:15 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Another interesting issue regarding the Flex 6xxx series (and radios
with a similar direct-digital-sampling RF architecture) is that A/D
Limit descriptor in the blocking dynamic range column in Sherwood's
chart. An ADC limit is a hard one; it does
Dear OMs,
In no way would I part with my sub-receiver. I operate 160M and find
diversity reception a considerable help.I also like the ability to tune
the second receiver through a pile up extending 20KhZ and sometimes offset
nearly 100 KHz.
The sub-receiver is not needed by most
As I see it for those who want the extra capabilities will pay it.The sell as
sub receiver to pay for a 200 option seems a bit haste.
The K3 is just as capable as it was yesterday, this is merely adding to it.
If money is that tight I'd rather just keep the Sub receiver as it is more
useful
On 2/13/15 12:54 PM, Doug Turnbull wrote:
Like a few other fortunate souls I have two K3s and if the new KSYN3A
is enough of an advance then I will first upgrade one radio then the other.
Good. You can do an A-B test after upgrading one
of them and give us a full report :-)
Phil W7OX
Yes, that makes sense, Don -- and not so
pejorative as cheap :-)
73, Phil W7OX
On 2/13/15 4:23 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for
a transceiver configured to the max, but balk at
spending $5 for a cable adapter or something
special of that nature.
Wow thanks Wayne and Elecraft for another improvement to a legendary rig.. or
as I told my wife.. I have just had to factor an extra $400 into the monthly
budget. ;-).
~C.
N6WM
-Original Message-
From: Elecraft [mailto:elecraft-boun...@mailman.qth.net] On Behalf Of Wayne
Burdick
I must admit that understanding those figures are beyond my knowledge. In
practical terms, if I can now hear a below S1 cw weak signal 10KHz away from a
S9+60db station before upgrade, what will be the improvement after the
installation of KSYN3A assuming operating under the same condition?
Johnny,
Hopefully I can simplify it a bit given your example.
That S9+60dB signal will have a weaker response in your receiver *if*
your receiver was the limiting factor. If the transmitter phase noise
(splatter and other 'bad stuff' was the original problem, then you may
or may not have any
* On 2015 13 Feb 15:20 -0600, Bill NY9H wrote:
now we need a neat application for the old synth card
seems that there will be a few thousand available
Wayne alluded earlier that they were holding some subreceiver kits back
for those interested in fitting one into a K3 with the older
I think you are confusing 'thrifty' and 'stingy'.
Don Wilhelm wrote:
Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for a transceiver
configured to the max, but balk at spending $5 for a cable adapter or
something special of that nature. Perhaps thrifty is a more
politically correct term.
Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for a transceiver
configured to the max, but balk at spending $5 for a cable adapter or
something special of that nature. Perhaps thrifty is a more
politically correct term.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 2/13/2015 6:20 PM, Phil Wheeler wrote:
I find it had
I know one of those, obviously far better off than we are, who tips on
the total less tax in a restaurant. I decided to buy him lunch. It is
what it is, we're all different.
On-topic question: I'm totally happy with my fairly vanilla K3 [S/N 642
upgraded a few years ago at Elecraft]. No
Fred,
See my response to Johnny Siu. That is the best I can do to explain it
in layman's terms.
73,
Don W3FPR
On 2/13/2015 8:03 PM, k6...@foothill.net wrote:
What would I gain from the new Synth? I have no nearby phase noise
problems since Jim [WX6V] got a K3, and I think my TX signal is
Argh! That will make the K3 second to the Flex 6700 in Sherwood's
table G although the 100 KHz blocking will be better than the A/D
Limited for the 6700.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
On 2015-02-13 6:34 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
Hi all,
I've updated the KSYN3A FAQ with the following information
On 2015-02-13 10:08 PM, Chortek Bob via Elecraft wrote:
The new synthesizer has essential the SAME IMDDR 106 or 103
depending on the filter bandwidth.
Incorrect! You are comparing measurements by different labs with
different test equipment and procedures.
Sherwood measured 104 dB w/200 Hz
I operate 2m-eme with JT65 and will be very interested to see if I
can see improvement with the new synth.
I'm guessing not unless you see some direct (tropo) signals.
JT-65, like all weak-signal modes, greatly benefits from low
phase-noise in a receiver (typically from the LO).
On HF
Thanks, Don, you are great in explaining the figures in layman terms. While I
cannot control the other's transmitters' IMD / phase noise, I now at least know
what I will expect to be better off by using the KSYN3A especially under very
difficult RX conditions (assuming everything under the
That's a far ways from -89 dB that you
quote.
The ARRL review in the April 2008 issue of the K3/10 showed reciprocal
mixing as -95 dBc at 2 kHz spacing.
The ARRL review in the Jan 2009 issue of the K3/100 showed reciprocal
mixing as -86 dBc at 2 kHz spacing.
This is the same lab. Dunno
If both RX and TX are using the same synthesizer, TX phase noise should be
lowered.
However, I am no expert on Icom IC7850 but more information will be given in
the link below:
The Icom IC-7850 at APDXC 2014
| |
| | | | | | | |
| The Icom IC-7850 at APDXC 2014The IC-7850 at APDXC
My K3 has developed a problem with the VFO. It is, of course, just
barely out of warranty. :-)
When I turn the VFO knob very slowly, the frequency display follows
normally, but when I turn it a little faster, the frequency display
freezes and intermittently unfreezes but immediately freezes
On Fri,2/13/2015 4:19 PM, Johnny Siu wrote:
Again, IC7850 is known foir extremely low phase noise.
Is it known for it's low phase noise on TX?
73, Jim K9YC
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Good thing they don't get into Reef Aquariums
;)
From: Don Wilhelm w3...@embarqmail.com
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Friday, February 13, 2015 7:23 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] KSYN3A
Consider those who willingly spend $5k or so for a transceiver
configured to the max, but balk
Will Elecraft be offering a trade in program for the old Synth
boards? :)
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
It's just one of those things that really annoy me. I ordered the
KSYN3A. Shipping via UPS was calculated as $20.00+ for a package
weighting .8 pounds. When I run the same locations and service through
UPS.com I get $8.38. That's a of markup on the shipping. Just sayin
Doug -- K0DXV
Thanks for the figures. I am trying to understand the amount of improvement we
can expect.
According to the ARRL Review in January 2009 the IMDDR was 106/103 dbm at 2 KHZ
but the Reciprocal Mixing was -86dbc at 2KHZ offset with 500 HZ bandwidth.
The new synthesizer has essential the SAME
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