on
behalf of Wayne Burdick
Sent: 05 November 2019 02:31
To: Joe Subich, W4TV
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
Joe,
Not everyone uses an amp with their 100-W rig (in fact, far less than half).
Like other 100-W radios that are compatible
Folks, we're way over the single topic posting limit here, and the discussion
has drifted way off the original topic into transmitter design and other topics.
Lets close this thread now in the interest of relieving our readers of email
overload.
Also, please do not cross post to multiple lists
I've been in aviation ground comms pretty much my whole working life,
now about 43 years, and apart from the odd mobile radio just about every
bit of kit runs off regular single phase AC from 100-250 volts 50/60Hz
plus DC at nominally 24 volts, these days often specified as 28 volts in
line
The FAA still uses 13.6 volt AM around the world, even the Western air
defense com is same.
The Huge power UPS legacy sytems are part of the same old standard that
won't die.
leroy ab7ce
On 11/4/2019 1:24 PM, Rick Bates (WA6NHC) wrote:
Perhaps since that is the standard voltage for
, November 5, 2019 11:19 AM
To: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
On 11/4/2019 1:24 PM, Rick Bates (WA6NHC) wrote:
> Perhaps since that is the standard voltage for cars, trucks, RVs and other
vehicles.
Commercial communication base-station equipm
i’ve been a user of 48 volt gear for decades in my day job but it is not what
the average consumer can easily access.
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 5, 2019, at 12:19 PM, Phil Kane wrote:
>
> On 11/4/2019 1:24 PM, Rick Bates (WA6NHC) wrote:
>
>> Perhaps since that is the standard voltage for
There have been a few amateur transceivers made that ran their solid state
finals at higher voltages and then had their own internal supplies. But the
industry has decided that the "standard" is still "12V". The rigs with the
higher voltage just don't take off and induce sales.
On Tue, Nov 5,
On 11/4/2019 1:24 PM, Rick Bates (WA6NHC) wrote:
> Perhaps since that is the standard voltage for cars, trucks, RVs and other
> vehicles.
Commercial communication base-station equipment has been standardized at
-48 volts(*) for quite a while and actually needs to use a voltage
converter for
the next step would be to get rid of linear amplification. It’s an over 90 year
old technique that was originally all but necessary to amplify SSB. New
methods employing saturated switching amplification would be much more
efficient (90% or more) while having much lower IMD (-80 db or more)
Elecraft has made their design decisions for the K4.
Since someone suggested running a 100w 12v device at 60w then it
occurs to me to obtain 100-120w then run two devices in parallel or
push-pull. Should not increase weight or drive requirements by a
significant amount. Cost probably under
FWIW, I am betting on the K4 and have
fully pre-paid the estimate on the K4D.
If it comes out to cost more in the end,
so be it. I love my K3 & the K3s because
of their wonderful brilliance, how could I
not possibly go for the K4 knowing the
mentality behind the brand?
Personally, I wish I
How much money would you like to bet? As much as Eric and Wayne? If your
assertion were true, no one would buy a Flex, or an Icom or a FTDX-101.
Hams love new stuff and there's a reason that Wayne and Eric are willing
to bet their actual money against your virtual money that lots of ops
will
I don't want to look like I'm beating a dead horse so this will be my
last comment on the subject, but my point was that I don't think very
many contest stations or DXpeditions are going to sell their K3s rigs to
buy a K4 (I don't see a compelling reason for them to do so), so I'm not
sure
Elecraft itself was forged during Field Day. This (and other cases where
portability matter) are engrained in our DNA :)
A K4 or K4D is actually in a similar price range to K3S stations, as typically
configured. And many of these are taken out of the shack, at least historically
speaking.
You're right, Joe: you don't want to push predistortion to the max available
power out on a given band. It may be a little less than 100 W to ensure
headroom under all load conditions.
And these days, predistortion is done with DSP. The K4 has a lot more
horsepower in this regard than the
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 4:29 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>
> The continued insistence on 12V radios should be limited to mobile or
> portable type and configured radios.
Like the K4 :)
Wayne
N6KR
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 11/4/2019 3:31 PM, Graydon (N7RXL) wrote:
>> I'm grateful
Joe,
Not everyone uses an amp with their 100-W rig (in fact, far less than half).
Like other 100-W radios that are compatible with field use, the K3/K3S/K4 must
make ~100 W from a 12-15 V mobile, solar, or battery supply. But it also has to
be efficient at this power level.
If you only need
I guess I still don't understand that choice, particularly since the
bulk of the new features that separate the K4 from the K3s seem geared
more toward fixed station use than portable operation. You could have
kept the K3s (which is still a world class rig) for anyone actually
needing
On 2019-11-04 7:34 PM, W2xj wrote:
One could always have a modular approach which is how other
industries approach this.
Sure, a modular approach would work well ... a 12V/60W PA or
a 40V/200W PA that would plug into the same space. Not exactly
rocket science.
> BTW, predistortion is common
On 2019-11-04 6:20 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
At home, use 13.8 to 14.2 V for lowest IMD. In the field, the K3 (and
now, the K4) automatically scales maximum power output based on
supply voltage, and can run down to as low as 11 V.
It is a shame that the maximum power output along with bias
As stated earlier, a radio with internal power supply capable of 90V to
250V and run the PA devices from 48 to 60 volts for a 100 watt radios.
And for mobile or portable, a 12VDC to 120VAC converter, makes it a 12V
radio. I use a 1000 watt pure sinewave converter on our travel
trailer. The
One could always have a modular approach which is how other industries approach
this. Broadband combiners are not that complicated. BTW, predistortion is
common practice is a number of industries.
Sent from my iPad
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 5:03 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
> On 2019-11-04
Build radios with internal supplies capable of 90V to 250V and the PA's
running 48 to 60 volts for 100 watt radios. The continued insistence
on 12V radios should be limited to mobile or portable type and
configured radios.
73
Bob, K4TAX
On 11/4/2019 3:31 PM, Graydon (N7RXL) wrote:
I'm
Predecessors to the K3 have already reached the "unobtanium parts"
stage, K3 probably isn't too far behind. The US military logistics folks
will do a "lifetime buy" when parts for the airplane or tank are headed
for obsolete-ness. The US military never runs out of checks, of course.
[:-) I
Hi all,
We've chosen to have the K4 continue to be a field-capable radio, inheriting
the characteristics that have always made the K3/K3S (and the K2 before it) the
preferred rig for FD, DXpeditions, and multi-transmitter stations. Thanks to a
lightweight but rigid internal aluminum frame, the
Perhaps the K4 should have been a 40V radio and the K3S remain as the
12V "portable" or "field" version.
k4ia, Buck
K3# 101
Honor Roll 8B DXCC
EasyWayHamBooks.com
On 11/4/2019 5:02 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
On 2019-11-04 4:44 PM, Scott Manthe wrote:
> Elecraft's design philosophy dictates
On 2019-11-04 4:44 PM, Scott Manthe wrote:
> Elecraft's design philosophy dictates that their radio be capable of
> portable/field operation, so that's how they design their radios.
> They're lightweight, efficient, and operate off 12 volts.
If that's the design philosophy, limit the power
Elecraft's design philosophy dictates that their radio be capable of
portable/field operation, so that's how they design their radios.
They're lightweight, efficient, and operate off 12 volts. Lots of other
manufacturers love giant, heavy rigs. Elecraft doesn't.
73,
Scott N9AA
On 11/4/19
I'm grateful they do. I always run the radio off of a battery, so I don't have
to ever worry about whether the AC power is on or not. I like to be able to
run my radios during a disaster. It's a lot simpler to connect the radio to
the battery, than to connect radio to power supply, then to
Perhaps since that is the standard voltage for cars, trucks, RVs and other
vehicles.
I run my power supplies at 14.2 v to be as clean as possible.
Rick NK7I
Smell Czech correction happens
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 12:53 PM, David Gilbert wrote:
>
>
> Their continued insistence upon
I agree completely with all of that, but with the discontinuance of the
K3s it seems that Elecraft doesn't really consider the K4 to be strictly
a base station rig. Their continued insistence upon everything being 12
volt capable is a bit of a puzzlement for me.
73,
Dave AB7E
On
On 2019-11-04 10:48 AM, Bill Johnson wrote:
Seems most transmitters are in the same boat using solid state
> transmitters/amplifiers, vs. tubes.
The issue is that 12V transistors are simply not capable of providing
the "clean" voltage swings necessary to generate 100 - 120W peak power.
A
Note the TX SAMPLE input on the rear panel, clearly shown in the product
brochure :)
Wayne
N6KR
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 8:29 AM, Dan Atchison via Elecraft
> wrote:
>
> Yea!?? I've been waiting for this announcement!?? Way to go Elecraft!
>
> On 11/4/2019 11:13 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>>
Yea!?? I've been waiting for this announcement!?? Way to go Elecraft!
On 11/4/2019 11:13 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
Well, that???s very good news. Unless I???ve missed it, this is first note
I've seen that confirms predistortion corrections in the K4.
Grant NQ5T
On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:58 AM,
The hardware is in place. Some firmware is required that will be phased in when
it's ready.
Wayne
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 8:13 AM, Grant Youngman wrote:
>
> Well, that’s very good news. Unless I’ve missed it, this is first note I've
> seen that confirms predistortion corrections in the K4.
>
Well, that’s very good news. Unless I’ve missed it, this is first note I've
seen that confirms predistortion corrections in the K4.
Grant NQ5T
> On Nov 4, 2019, at 10:58 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
>
> This is why the K4 (and a small number of other transceivers) include "active
>
aw K4TAX
> Sent: Sunday, November 3, 2019 7:25 PM
> To: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
>
> I suppose I am the "Bob" you refer to. The section in Rob's article on
> Odd-Order Intermodulation he clearly explains "worse
To: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
I suppose I am the "Bob" you refer to. The section in Rob's article on
Odd-Order Intermodulation he clearly explains "worse".
Our receivers have gotten much better over the years b
groups.io *On Behalf Of
*Rob Sherwood
*Sent:* Sunday, November 3, 2019 5:16 PM
*To:* elecraft...@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [Elecraft-K3] K3S to be discontinued
The K3S is excellent in respect to transmit composite noise. Transmit
IMD, on the other hand, is quite different at various power levels.
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