Barry,
yes PHONES-OUT on front panel(!!!) is different from rear panel PHONES
or LINE OUT outs.
The plots from front-panel phones-out is better, but IMD spikes are present.
plot withoot S9 signal: http://forum.cqham.ru/download.php?id=32055
S9 PRE OnAGC Off:
Yes indeed. IMO there are two things that are pure junk on the K3,
S-meter and the 12V DC power connectors. Too bad it can´t get fixed.
Also I don´t like that the VOX gain changes with mic gain level, IMO
they should be independent.
Like anything in life nothing is perfect.
/ Jim SM2EKM
Alex,
Good job!
73
Arie PA3A
-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens Alexander Ponomarenko
Verzonden: donderdag 13 november 2008 9:49
CC: elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Onderwerp: Re: [K3] [Elecraft] in-band-IMD test
Barry,
yes PHONES-OUT on front
Just had a Katiegram for my KRX3 which was ordered on February 1st:-)
At the moment my K3 has additional 500Hz (5 pole) and 250Hz (8 pole) filters
but I've ordered an 8 pole 400Hz to go with the KXR3; thought I may move the
500Hz 5 pole to the KXR3 and have both 8 pole filters in the main
The Audio mod is a very simply! You just need to add simple two resistor
pararell on KIO3 module and replace one RFI choke! If anyone need mode just
send me mail and I will forward pdf direct !
73, E72X,
Alexander:
Sorry but I don't read Russian. What were the K3's AGC settings for the IMD
The Audio mod is a very simply! You just need to add simple two resistor
pararell on KIO3 module and replace one RFI choke! If anyone need mode just
send me mail and I will forward pdf direct !
73, E72X,
Alexander:
Sorry but I don't read Russian. What were the K3's AGC settings for the IMD
The Audio mod is a very simply! You just need to add simple two resistor
pararell on KIO3 module and replace one RFI choke! If anyone need mode just
send me mail and I will forward pdf direct !
73, E72X,
Alexander:
Sorry but I don't read Russian. What were the K3's AGC settings for the IMD
Fair enough, but if the sound card was being overdriven in their *two tone*
tests, the same IMD products should appear in the two tone test trsults from
all four types of receiver which is not the case. This assumes of course
that the input levels to the sound card are the same plus minus a
Hi,
I'm at work right now and have a spare moment, which has allowed me to
think about the ARRL 10M Contest coming up in December. With the lack
of sun spots these days, the contest will likely be a VHF affair,
which led to the thought that one could call CQ on one frequency and
scan the
Barry N1EU wrote:
Alexander Ponomarenko-5 wrote:
yes PHONES-OUT on front panel(!!!) is different from rear panel PHONES
or LINE OUT outs.
The plots from front-panel phones-out is better, but IMD spikes are
present.
plot withoot S9 signal: http://forum.cqham.ru/download.php?id=32055
S9
Version 1.5 of KComm for Windows and Linux has been uploaded to my website.
This version improves upon or fixes issues that were noticed with the
previous version, including handling of different character sets. Now I can
read PSK31 conversations in Cyrillic, which I couldn't even do in MixW,
Hallo,
The Audio mod is a very simply! You just need to add simple two resistor
pararell on KIO3 module and replace one RFI choke! If anyone need mode just
send me mail and I will forward pdf direct !
Has this modification been blessed by Elecraft or is it an unofficial mod?
Is the PDF an
Ladies and Gents.
I have been trying to follow the threads on IMD performance of the K3 and the
S-Meter thread of the K3. Could someone explain (to a Liberal Arts Major - not
an engineering type) what the issues are here and why they are issues with
this radio? Maybe, I'm lost in all
Alexander Ponomarenko-5 wrote:
yes PHONES-OUT on front panel(!!!) is different from rear panel PHONES
or LINE OUT outs.
The plots from front-panel phones-out is better, but IMD spikes are
present.
plot withoot S9 signal: http://forum.cqham.ru/download.php?id=32055
S9 PRE OnAGC
Lee,
Don't know about the connector issues (I suppose that might be a
matter of personal preference). The S-Meter issue has to do with fine
adjustments. Since the meter is a bar graph type, blocks are either
lit or not. If, for instance, you are attempting to see the difference
between
Hello,
Good job Alex!!! I was pointing out weak in the Channel IMD characteristics of
K3 for long time!!!
73!
John,SP2GGZ,N2KFC,YB1AQV,
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Have these tests been made AFTER the AF board modification?
Improvements to the power supply to the front panel can have
a significant effect on this issue.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of JOHN
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008
Lee,
Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter
Because some people do not understand the difference between an
amateur transceiver and a $10,000 piece laboratory test equipment.
The K3's S-meter circuit is derived form the IF DSP and provides
a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB)
Lee Buller wrote:
Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector
junk that cannot be fixed?
Maybe I should explain my point.
S-meter, too coars since it can only show a 6 dB change.
It´s been reported on this reflector that it was impossible
to rectify/change that, i
You mean the S-meter reads in S units (6db) how unique. Also the damn
powerpole thing has been beat to death over numerous threads on this
reflector. Read those and pray no one gets out their soapbox again.
Matt
KD8DAO
http://blog.MattIsKichigai.com
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:44 AM, Jan Erik
a very accurate scale in S-unit (5 dB) steps.
I assume you mean 6dB steps:
Page 156 http://www.iaru-r1.org/VHF_Handbook_V5_11.pdf
Page 142 http://www.iaru-r1.org/HFM%20Handbook%20V6.pdf
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G'day,
The plot thickens. We need to know more about these modifications. Or
have I missed something these past few weeks.
Regards,
Mike VP8NO
- Original Message -
From: Joe Subich, W4TV [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday, November 13,
In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...
12V power connector, does not have a positive lock, i e can
come loose if radio is moved. Again IMO this is junk.
Have you assembled the connector correctly, Jim? Both my K3 and my
XV144 Anderson power connectors go in with a
Current out the door models mod'ed???
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Harris
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 11:08 AM
To: Elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] in-band-IMD test
G'day,
The plot thickens.
Lee Buller wrote:
Alsowhy is one person calling the S-Meter and the power connector
junk that cannot be fixed?
The s-meter is only useful to give a rough reading of signal strength.
It is good enough for RST reports.
However, the radio includes a built-in 'dBV' (this is in quotes for
Lee,
It seems that some owners are expecting an analog signal from a digital
source or expect their receiver to be a precision measurement device.
The digital steps derived to drive the S-meter correlate to the marks on
the S-meter in whole S units, it does not indicate anything in between.
Hi
PowerPoles can be locked together with a small 'U shaped piece of stiff
wire run through the holes between the red and black blocks after plugging
in the connectors. I do this on my solar panel setup to keep the connectors
in place even if the wires get pulled.
Thanks
Don Brown
KD5NDB
Joe has again hit the nail on the head. The K3 is a very high
quality transceiver. It is not test equipment. You want test
equipment, you buy test equipment. I'm an EE and I've been a ham
for 53 years. I find nearly all elements of the K3 user interface
quite satisfactory, including the
The K3 keeps the S-meter data in 1 decibel increments, and it's on the
enhancement list to be made available through the K3 RS232 command set. I've
done some early testing on this and the virtual analog meter on the PC display
mimics a true analog S-meter convincingly.
Five DB steps that can
Yes, this is an 'official' mod. Elecraft has instructions and a kit of parts
for those who want them.
You'll need to contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for info. For some reason the kit
and the instructions are not on the Elecraft WEB site.
Ron AC7AC
-Original Message-
Hallo,
The Audio mod
~
N2CQ QRP CONTEST CALENDAR
November 13 - December 14, 2008
~
40 METER FOXHUNT (CW) *** QRP Contest ***
Each Thursday Begining Nov 13 Thru March 26
9 PM to 10:29 PM Eastern Time
Hello, Alexander:
Yes, please send me that pdf.
For your information, I am sending a pdf of an article I wrote in December
1995 QST magazine describing modifications to the AGC system of the ICOM
IC-765 to reduce in-band IMD. This illustrates how a Fast time constant
can create unwanted in-band
Five DB steps that can be on or off with a flicker fall way short
for me as well, a convincing analog meter is 50% of the listening
experience at this QTH.
I'm trying to figure out how to hear an S_Meter, but I suppose we
all listen in different ways.
I'm really surprised, after
You'll need to contact [EMAIL PROTECTED] for info. For some
reason the kit and the instructions are not on the Elecraft WEB site.
The kit is listed here:
http://www.elecraft.com/order_form_parts.htm#K3%20Parts
However, the instructions are not on the web site.
73,
... Joe, W4TV
I assume you mean 6dB steps:
In the case of the K3 it is 5 dB steps. If the S-meter is
calibrated according to the manual S9 = 50 uV and S2 or S3
= 1 uV. For S2 = 1 uV we have 20log(1/50)/7 or 4.85 dB/unit.
For S3 = 1uV we get 20log(1/50)/6 or 5.66 dB/unit.
A very repeatable 5 dB per
Hmmm - improvements to the front panel power supply?
Bob NW8L
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:39 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Have these tests been made AFTER the AF board modification?
Improvements to the power supply to the front panel can have
a significant effect on this
I'm trying to figure out how to hear an S_Meter, but I suppose we
all listen in different ways.
It's true Grant, the received signal has a rythm of amplitude that can be seen
on the S-meter, but that effect is greatly reduced by the AGC if you are only
listening for a change in the level of
With minor circuit changes, both the K3's speaker amplifier and line
outputs can provide lower IMD (intermodulation distortion) at higher
signal levels. We've been testing these changes for a couple of months,
and have already phased them into production.
These changes can easily be made to
Wayne
Can you tell us the serial number at which
these changes were incorporated?
We need to know who needs to order them
and who does not.
Thanks and 73
Bob N6WG
- Original Message -
From: wayne burdick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Elecraft Reflector elecraft@mailman.qth.net
Sent: Thursday,
The fading on SSB and CW modes can tell you a lot about what the band is
doing.
Indeed, but I've always done this by ear, rather than by watching the S-meter.
If you can't hear the difference, perhaps the AGC is adjusted too 'tightly'.
Rapid CW QSB can easily be seen on an audio recording
Hmmm - improvements to the front panel power supply?
According to the documentation, the RF choke is being replaced by
another with significantly less resistance. This results in less
voltage drop on signal (audio peaks) and will obviously result in
less IMD (due to current starvation in
The fading on SSB and CW modes can tell you a lot about what the
band is doing.
Yes, but not necessarily what you think. Most of the in and out
fading we hear on HF is the result of multipath. That is, the signal
travels over two paths that differ a bit in time, which puts them
out of phase.
If you can't hear the difference, perhaps the AGC is adjusted too 'tightly'.
Yes, as Wayne will confirm, I keep a minimal AGC, the loosest that
anyone might imagine.
Assume Wayne checks into the SSB net and your ears say - very strong - so
you look at the S-meter. S7 peaks to S8.
Ten minutes
Ionospheric reflection seems to be generally N-ray fading, not two-ray
fading. Two-ray fading gives you a Rician distribution when looking at
the probability density function, and N-ray fading is Rayleigh
statistics with a Rayleigh PDF.
I've looked at this recently but not nearly in the
Thanks David, yes I believe so, I do get the click.
It´s no big issue, I can live with it however IMO
as stated before this is a bad type of connector.
73 Jim SM2EKM
David Pratt wrote:
In a recent message, Jan Erik Holm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote ...
12V power connector,
I am so blessed to be a contester. Everybody is S9. Of course, if
the guy is really, really weak and I need several repeats, then he
only gets a 599.
:-)
de Doug KR2Q
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You must be a
Don´t you ever like to compare two antennas? Or someone you
have a QSO with likes to compare antennas or something else,
amplifiers or what ever.
If everybody is using K3´s and the difference is smaller
then 5 dB you can´t see it on the S-meter and since the
AGC is so darn good you can´t hear it
The factory installed PowerPole connector was misaligned on my K3. After
trying to make sure the connectors I made were correct, several times, I
discovered that the “flat” (with a small dimple) connectors were to far back
on the heavy piece of wire they are soldered to. This prevents them from
Hi Rich,
I've forwarded your comments to our test techs to make sure they look
for this on each RF board as they test and align it.
73, Eric WA6HHQ
Rich wrote:
The factory installed PowerPole connector was misaligned on my K3. After
trying to make sure the connectors I made were correct,
Lets let this topic rest for now. :-)
73, Eric WA6HHQ
Elecraft list moderator
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Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
Notwithstanding Eric's request to let this rest...
For testing, the K3 has the very excellent feature whereby it can
measure the receive voltage. That would be an FB way to compare
signals.
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On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 14:50:34 -0500, Jack Smith wrote:
not two-ray
fading. Two-ray fading gives you a Rician distribution when looking at
the probability density function, and N-ray fading
While there may be many (N) arrivals, near-perfect cancellation occurs
when two arrivals dominate, are
If everybody is using K3´s and the difference is smaller
then 5 dB you can´t see it on the S-meter and since the
AGC is so darn good you can´t hear it either.
Reading the Rx voltage scale is one option, but IMHO, a better solution for
signal comparison purposes is to use the K3 with either
I believe that if the PowerPole on the K3 was installed on a short length
of
flexible wire we would not be reading about this problem as it would not
exist.
That would make a connector change-out very easy should the PowerPole
contacts become damaged..
A while back, I had shifted the K3
Even though I properly tightened all case screws at assembly time, I noticed
that after using my kit K3 for a few months, many of the case screws were
loose. Probably the thermal expansion and contraction as well as the settling
of the various case pieces into something comfortable for the K3
Jim Brown wrote:
Lots of questions. See some answers interspersed.
On Tue, 11 Nov 2008 18:22:50 -0800, Dick Dievendorff wrote:
I think I usually get that right (along with kHz), but I get confused when I
see dBi, dBm, seemingly dBx for all X. I presume it's a measure of loudness
relative to
The only shortcoming I've found is that SpectraVue needs to
poll the K3's mode offset data so that changing modes does
not require an offset change in SpectraVue. Not sure if
that's handled automatically when using LP-PAN and PowerSDR.
Yes, LP-Pan/PowerSDR handle the mode offset
I made the mod, and it is a nice touch except for one minor problem for me,
the LED's are not as bright as the originals.
73,
Bill
K9YEQ
K2 #35; KX1 #35; K3 #1744; mini mods
-Original Message-
Hi Tom ...
One change I made to my W1 that helps a lot from a usability point-of-view
is to
The K3AFMDKT mod kit for the K3 AF stage is listed in the Spare Parts
and Mod Kits page, for $10. But it is not yet listed on the
Enhancements and Application Notes Page. So there is no manual or
descriptive pdf file that would let us judge whether a late K3 does or
does not already have
--- On Thu, 11/13/08, Jim Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yes, but not necessarily what you think. Most of the in and out
fading we hear on HF is the result of multipath. That is, the signal
travels over two paths that differ a bit in time, which puts them
out of phase. When they out of phase
Researching my options for a K3 panadapter (Softrock, LP-PAN, SDR-IQ,
Perseus, Mercury...) I want to thank Paul W9AC for sharing his experience
with the SDR-IQ on the list:
When observing signal strength on the display, there's ample resolution for
signal comparisons. SDR-IQ is powered from
Thanks, Joe. I looked in the wrong place. Eric dropped me a note saying he
is putting the instructions on the web site.
Ron AC7AC
-Original Message-
From: Joe Subich, W4TV [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2008 9:33 AM
To: 'Ron D'Eau Claire'; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
I always allow plenty of time before I make an evaluation of a product. Most
products look good and appear to be able to do the job. It is only in the real
word of use can one really find out if a product is quality or not.
I have had my K3 carry case by Rose Kopp for 7 months and have used
On Thu, 13 Nov 2008 23:42:37 +, David Woolley (E.L) wrote:
Audio dB are weighted by frequency, so the same power at different
frequencies will not produce a 0dB difference.
The use of weighting requires another suffix.
It's more complex than that. Classical music broadcasters need to
I would also like to know that please.
73, Igor UA9CDC
Wayne
Can you tell us the serial number at which
these changes were incorporated?
We need to know who needs to order them
and who does not.
Thanks and 73
Bob N6WG
- Original Message -
From: wayne burdick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
The digital steps derived to drive the S-meter correlate to
the marks on the S-meter in whole S units, it does not indicate anything
in between. It is good enough for most displays and radio control
programs since they usually display the S-meter in steps of whole S-units
anyway. Those that
S Sacco wrote:
For testing, the K3 has the very excellent feature whereby it can
measure the receive voltage. That would be an FB way to compare
signals.
No it would not.The dBV meter is only useful on a constant and
steady carrier.
/ Jim SM2EKM
wayne burdick wrote:
SPEAKER AMP: The mod kit includes a very low-resistance RF choke for
use at RFC47
73,
Wayne
N6KR
What is the value? / SM2EKM
Could this be homebrewed? Core, turns, wire? / LZ1VB
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wayne burdick wrote:
SPEAKER AMP: The mod kit includes a very low-resistance RF choke for
use at RFC47
73,
Wayne
N6KR
What is the value? / SM2EKM
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