Re: [EM] PR favoring racial minorities

2008-08-22 Thread Raph Frank
On 8/22/08, Jonathan Lundell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Of course, that's true for any single-seat district, FPTP or not. Right, I was thinking single-seaters. Election-Methods mailing list - see http://electorama.com/em for list info

Re: [EM] [Election-Methods] [english 94%] PRfavoringracialminorities

2008-08-22 Thread Raph Frank
On 8/22/08, Juho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Finland where the number of candidates is relatively high some less obvious candidates may have some trouble getting in to the lists but on the other hand some well known figures (that have become popular (and respected) in other areas than

Re: [EM] [Election-Methods] Re: final attempt for a strategy-free range voting variant, and another proportionally democratic method

2008-08-22 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Raph Frank wrote: I had a similar though previously. It was based on a legislature rather than individual voters. I called it 'consumable votes'. Here is one example, though there was a fair few versions.

Re: [EM] PR favoring racial minorities

2008-08-22 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Juho wrote: On Aug 18, 2008, at 12:10 , Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: The extreme would be a voting system where people just say how much they agree with an opinion, for all relevant opinions, and then the system picks the maximally representative assembly. Such a method is not desirable, I

Re: [EM] STV and Trees

2008-08-22 Thread Raph Frank
On 8/22/08, Juho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 22, 2008, at 2:18 , Raph Frank wrote: Thus, I don't see them as massively different ... the trees just add more structure and reduce the freedom. The intention was not to reduce freedom. If a voter wants to bypass the default inheritance

Re: [EM] [Election-Methods] Re: final attempt for a strategy-free range voting variant, and another proportionally democratic method

2008-08-22 Thread Raph Frank
On 8/22/08, Kristofer Munsterhjelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: One problem of a straightforward every candidate gets p voting money units at the beginning of each block of time is that, on one hand, the situation may be serious enough that one needs to pass more than p units' worth. In that

Re: [EM] Why We Shouldn't Count Votes with Machines

2008-08-22 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Dave Ketchum wrote: You claim that many fragments can be done by specialized machines. AGREED, though I do not agree that they can do it any better than a normal computer - which has equivalent capability. In a technical capacity, of course not. Since a computer is Turing-complete, it can do

Re: [EM] [Election-Methods] [english 94%] PRfavoringracialminorities

2008-08-22 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Juho wrote: I could accept also methods where the voting power of each representative is different. The good part is that such a parliament would reflect the wishes of the voters more accurately than a parliament where all the representatives have the same voting power. Maybe one could force

Re: [EM] Why We Shouldn't Count Votes with Machines

2008-08-22 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Kathy Dopp wrote: On Thu, Aug 21, 2008 at 10:00 PM, Dave Ketchum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: First, this is not intended to be used in a zillion precincts - just to validate the programs. OK. Well if you don't care about validating the election outcome accuracy, and just want to verify the

Re: [EM] PR favoring racial minorities

2008-08-22 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Raph Frank wrote: On 8/22/08, Juho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In Finland where the number of candidates is relatively high some less obvious candidates may have some trouble getting in to the lists but on the other hand some well known figures (that have become popular (and respected) in other

Re: [EM] PR favoring racial minorities

2008-08-22 Thread Raph Frank
On 8/22/08, Kristofer Munsterhjelm [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What I had in mind was something like this: Say there's a single-winner election where the plurality winner has 35% support. Then those voters effectively got 0.5 (+1) worth of the vote with only 0.35 mass. The total voting power of

Re: [EM] Delegate cascade and proportional representation

2008-08-22 Thread Raph Frank
On 8/22/08, Michael Allan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The general structure of a delegate cascade is actually a cyclic graph. But cycles can occur only at the bottom of each casacade, where they result in pools. Pools are equivalent to roots, so d'Hondt (etc.) should still work. Maybe a

Re: [EM] Continuous elections and their interplay with power structures

2008-08-22 Thread Michael Allan
Juho wrote: Ok, in a stable system with well established connections between nodes that stability will increase. I was concerned about the ability of individuals to move large masses of votes (larger than what they got directly in the election) by just their own individual decision. Maybe

Re: [EM] Why We Shouldn't Count Votes with Machines

2008-08-22 Thread Dave Ketchum
Federal certification? The many horror stories tell us either: Equipment is failing that has never been certified or The certifiers are signing off without bothering to look seriously for the many defects in the offered systems, Thus the certification process needs overhauling. I