Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-27 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
That could be one big poster where the candidates are listed on the right hand side and the left hand side is used for representing the tree structure (and the names of the parties and the subgroups). That could work, at least in cases where there's only one district and the party limits the

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-27 Thread Juho
On Jun 27, 2008, at 13:54 , Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: That could be one big poster where the candidates are listed on the right hand side and the left hand side is used for representing the tree structure (and the names of the parties and the subgroups). That could work, at least in

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-25 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Howard wrote: Question to Kristofer do you see the issues that you start off with as orthogonal? i.e. do you see this only working in a world where the issues polled are independent. The simulation I wrote assumes this, since it picks the proportion in favor on each issue independently. The

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-25 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Steve Eppley wrote: Hi, I prefer a definition of representativeness that differs from Kristofer's. To me, the more similar the *decisions* of a legislature are to the decisions the people themselves would make collectively in a well-functioning direct democracy, the more representative is

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-25 Thread Juho
I'm inclined to think the model where all voter groups get representatives that closely reflect their views as the default model. The model where the society is represented e.g. by a group of centrists works in many cases but it has also some problem cases that make it an alternative in my

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-25 Thread Kristofer Munsterhjelm
Terry Bouricius wrote: That brings me to an interesting issue, which may be off-topic for this list...sortition...the selection of a legislative body by means of modern sampling methods that assure a fully representative body. There is an interesting history of the tension between sortition on

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-25 Thread Juho
On Jun 25, 2008, at 21:05 , Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Juho wrote: On Jun 24, 2008, at 0:34 , Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: What do you mean by methods that allow candidates to form a tree like structure? Something like delegable proxy, or just preference ballots with parties instead of

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-24 Thread James Gilmour
Howard Sent: Tuesday, June 24, 2008 4:18 AM I feel that the need to look for and design a system around geographic proportionality is a waist of time (except as a sales pitch). I believe that geographic proportionality would naturally come out of a truly proportional system (if it was

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-24 Thread Terry Bouricius
-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods Hi, I prefer a definition of representativeness that differs from Kristofer's. To me, the more similar the *decisions* of a legislature are to the decisions the people themselves would make collectively in a well-functioning direct

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-24 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 11:18 PM 6/23/2008, Howard wrote: I feel that the need to look for and design a system around geographic proportionality is a waist of time (except as a sales pitch). I believe that geographic proportionality would naturally come out of a truly proportional system (if it was important to the

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-24 Thread Juho
One reason why districts have been kept is that if there were no districts then voters would have some tendency to vote for the capital area candidates that have typically better access to TV etc. There are typically also more popular figures in general at the capital region. The risk is

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-24 Thread Juho
On Jun 24, 2008, at 0:34 , Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: What do you mean by methods that allow candidates to form a tree like structure? Something like delegable proxy, or just preference ballots with parties instead of candidates? Or nontraditional nested democracy (groups elect members to an

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-24 Thread Juho
On Jun 24, 2008, at 15:44 , Terry Bouricius wrote: That brings me to an interesting issue, which may be off-topic for this list...sortition...the selection of a legislative body by means of modern sampling methods that assure a fully representative body. There is an interesting history of

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-23 Thread Howard
One more observation. Nowadays many methods actually try to meet two kind of proportionality requirements, political/ideological proportionality (typically based on the party structure) and regional proportionality (typically implemented by mandating all to vote at their own home district for the

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-23 Thread Howard
Question to Kristofer do you see the issues that you start off with as orthogonal? i.e. do you see this only working in a world where the issues polled are independent. also, how it would be decided what issues are polled? even in a simulation this is important. Ultimately there are a

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-23 Thread Steve Eppley
Hi, I prefer a definition of representativeness that differs from Kristofer's. To me, the more similar the *decisions* of a legislature are to the decisions the people themselves would make collectively in a well-functioning direct democracy, the more representative is the legislature.

Re: [Election-Methods] Determining representativeness of multiwinner methods

2008-06-22 Thread Juho
On Jun 21, 2008, at 1:09 , Kristofer Munsterhjelm wrote: Hello all, (says the newcomer.) Welcome. First, set that there are n binary issues. Each of the voters then have an issue profile which consists of n booleans. How do see the role of parties here? Do you use e.g. a binary