The method works as follows:
For the first election, the candidate elected would be just the
plurality winner.
However, the winning candidate would get to keep votes equal to the
excess over the 2nd highest candidate.
All other candidates would get to keep all of their votes.
In subsequent
Very interesting idea! Reminds me of Ebay :-)
But:
This leads to the long term average number of seats
for the candidate matching the candidate's proportion of votes.
Can you prove this? Seems not so obvious to me...
It is based on the assumption that the cost in votes to get elected
is
Jonathan Lundell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Jeff O'Neill (who I think is on this list) suggests a tree
representation of an ranked election profile (Voting matters #21
http://www.mcdougall.org.uk/VM/ISSUE21/INDEX.HTM) as a means of
speeding up the tabulation of the election. It seems to me that
Dan Bishop [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here's my idea:
STEP 1: Set the price of a vote for each position. This could be
proportional to the budget of the ministry.
Example: The Republic of Electoria spends 4% of its budget on justice,
3% on the treasury, and 93% on defense (the country is
Now, first I'm going to introduce to you the idea of the proportional
Condorcet winner.
The are several of these in an election, and the majority Conorcet
winner is always
among them. A proportional Condorcet winner is the Condorcet winner
of the
minority of the electorate. For instance,
From: Simmons, Forest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
In some elections not all of the ballots are cast at the same time,
and
furthermore, the partial results (from exit polls, say) may be
available to
voters later in the sequence.
In any case, some voters may prefer to vote near the beginning of
the
Anthony O'Neal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
(This is the election I pulled out of the Wikipedia article for
CPO-STV.
I just didn't feel like making up an election where the results from
CPO-STV and STV differ right now. If you want to see how
the results for the CPO-STV and STV results were
Simmons, Forest [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
For the purposes of this message, a lottery is a stack of papers of
standard
copier size (8.5 inch by 11 inch) such that each paper has the name
of exactly
one candidate typed on it.
This stack of papers is a lottery in the sense that a sheet of
In the standard peer assembly election method, the only
way to kick the incumbent government out of office is to
give the opposition parties control of the legislature.
This means that there is resistance to kicking out
corrupt/lazy incumbents as it could shift the balance
to parties that would
Jobst Heitzig [EMAIL PROTECTED]
This is not independent of cloning ... in a big way :).
What makes you think so? Assuming we add a clone y of x so that all
voters have x and y neighboured in their ranking and so that the new
initial proportions of papers naming either x or y is the same as the
Jobst Heitzig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello Raphael again!
If so, there is an odd number of winners in that case, which might
prove problematic.
For example:
2 abc
2 bca
3 cab
Starting with a uniform distribution, we get:
no. of
papers for
iterationabc
Jan Kok [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I think a victory for IRV in Denver would be a step SIDEways for
voting reform in general. Yes, IRV is better than Plurality + delayed
top-two runoff. Yes, a victory for IRV would get the issue of voting
reform a little more into the public consciousness;
Allen Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] (on 11 June 2006
15:15:22
+0100), [EMAIL PROTECTED] (James Gilmour) wrote:
Promoters of the many different voting systems need to stand back
from all
the competing technicalities for one moment and ask the question:
What is
the
Anthony O'Neal [EMAIL PROTECTED] write:
And about the proportional range system I talked about earlier, the
workings
of the system is obvious. Under PAV rules, you assume that candidates
give 1
point to an outcome for having one approved of candidate, 1/3 for the
second
approved of
Anthony O'Neal thasupasacfitinman at gmail.com wrote:
Tactical voting works against that. If people tactical vote, then
they
get
no method to express their actual desired.
I don't think you understand the method. It was a very short
description,
but PAV is not vulnerable to
From: Rob Lanphier [EMAIL PROTECTED]
It occurs to me that a pretty cool voting system could be devised
along
this path (and probably has been -- please let me know who I'm ripping
off here).
From: Simmons, Forest [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Any time that IRV does not elect the sincere CW (when there is one)
there
is going to be a strong incentive for order reversal under IRV,
except under
the (non-existent) zero information case. [The only real life cases
that
exist in hot elections are
From: Jan Kok [EMAIL PROTECTED]
A couple weeks ago Forest Simmons suggested the candidate withdrawal
option as a way of improving most election methods. I just realized
that the candidate withdrawal option would greatly mitigate the center
squeeze problem with IRV. (Sometimes it takes a
From: dave smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I need help in determining what voting system would be best for the
following criteria:
~500 candidates
~1000 voters
1 winner
I was going to do a form of PV, but limit the number of ranks to 3.
The problem with this is that what if there are more
From: Anthony Duff [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Stephane Rouillon [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
any system that would leave a default value for
unvalued/unranked/unapproved
candidates would help. Personnaly, I would suggest:
A) Let the voter precise the score, rank or state of all unexpressed
From: Dave Ketchum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Agreed that redistricting should be based only on the decennial
census - what was done in Texas needs forbidding.
Btw, what is your opinion on having districts setup so that a minority
group can get a reasonable number of seats ?
Likewise what they were
From: Jan Kok [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On 7/24/06, Monkey Puzzle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Can anybody say Straw Man?
I don't understand what you're trying to say, M.P.
No one (on this list) is claiming this North Carolina thing is real
IRV. The NC thing is an abomination.
However, it is a good
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax (Wed Aug 30 19:53:20 PDT 2006) Wrote:
At 10:00 AM 8/30/2006, raphfrk at netscape.net wrote:
I think another big issue is that something like this is actually annoying
until you hit the scaling issues. In a forum with say 20 users, you don't
actually need it. However
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Wikis can handle this easily, leaving a record of who edited the file for each edit, so we can confirm, if needed, that it was the member who added his or her record and designated the proxy, and it was the proxy who accepted.
Someone would still have root access for
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Here's a couple links that talk about this terrible "solution" to the
spoiler problem:
http://www.nmef.org/solution.htm
http://www.blueoregon.com/2006/07/new_party_pushe.html
Ok, yeah, no journalistic integrity, I'm pre-biasing you all against thi
stuff, oh well.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asset Voting cuts through this mess, wasting *no* votes except those
that are wasted, deliberately or through negligence, by candidates
receiving the votes, who refuse or are unable to combine excess votes
with those from other candidates to create winners. In
otection only works if you "spend"
the coin more than once at the same web site.
---
Unrelated to the above, has anyone else noticed that posts seem to appear on the
web archive before they are mailed ? This really slows down replying to emails.
-
for range or plurality though.
Btw, in the paper linked, the voting method covered is plurality.
Being able to cast plurality type ballots would be required to be able to handle something like asset voting or party list voting too, so it is a feature that would be useful.
ates get less than 2 seats in the Senate in the US constitution.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
is exactly that they don't be given any power. This means that
there needs to be a way to assign power. If consensus is reached, then
it doesn't matter (much) what form that takes. However, it is the default
option for when consensus is not reached.
Raphfrk
Interesting si
he voter can pick their
own ID numbers in the same way. Also, they should
probably be provided with a die as people aren't that good
at picking random numbers.
Obviously, the voters would be told to leave the handles
in the "default" state when finished with them.
Raphfrk
-
rcion.
STENCILS:
--One more thing. Raphfrk on this forum suggested some
ideas about sliding widgets and 3ballot.
I thought his stuff (assuming raphfrk is a "him") was rather kludgy and confused
and I wasn't even sure it would work
It would :). The main issue is getting ID nu
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I posted it on http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RangeVoting/
Summary for those that don't want to go to the RangeVoting List
The method amounts to allowing the voter to vote
FOR two candidates and AGAINST 1 candidate.
The AGAINST vote is a FOR vote for all the
many votes they cast
for each candidate. This also slightly reduces the security as a
voter may forget how many they cast for a specific candidate.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new f
Dharma (subscribed lists) wrote:
What are the views on this sort of electoral system - is it proportional
representation or disproportional.
the top 2 parties gets 40% of the seats each and the the 3rd party gets 20%
The result, assuming the following numbers of electors:
A - 30
B - 90
be people more interested in quality
laws.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
election-method
Dharma wrote:
raphfrk at netscape.net [mailto:raphfrk at netscape.net]
Dharma (subscribed lists) wrote:
What are the views on this sort of electoral system - is it proportional
representation or disproportional.
the top 2 parties gets 40% of the seats each and the the 3rd
rent holder. However, if asset voting is used, then there is no point in doing IRV as well. I guess it could be used as a deadlock breaker or something.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
-Original Messa
in condorcet ?
DWK
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
election-metho
eople who happen to be part of the main
party effectively get a larger share of the budget.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading s
references.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.
election-methods mailing list - see http://electo
for that candidate.
The voter's ballot rates each candidate from 0-10. He then
adds in the voter's vote and records any increased the
utility of the election due to the voter having an effect.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wik
stake
back). You get to repeat the gamble as often as you want,
but can only use your initial stake and any money you win.
What is the optimal amount to bet in order to maximise the rate of income. Clearly, if you bet all your money you will with near certainty be bankrupt after say, 10 rounds.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
A voter might be willing to use option C even though D gives a better
expected value.
In my opinion, if the voter prefers to vote option C than option D,
because he doesn't want to risk the -1 outcome, then he has not
that
there would be people in an election who wouldn't
vote perfect strategic because they are afraid that
their least favorite will win.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [EM] RE : Re: Range voting, zero-info strategy simulation (raphfrk)
At 05:12 PM 11/1/2006, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
This is why insurance companies exist. People pay say 1%
of the value of a thing in order to insure against a risk
that is say 1
er, the election for office
itself would be PR based. The ballot access election districts
might cover 10% of the country. In the US, they could even
be the States.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
who have won at least one ballot access election
are allowed to stand for office. However, the election for office
itself would be PR based. The ballot access election districts
might cover 10% of the country. In the US, they could even
be the States.
Raphfrk
Inter
t does suffer from the problem that it is in party A's
interests to declare itself as A and A'.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry
formula for the fractions can be almost anything
and doesn't have to be what I gave. It is supposed to
represent the probability that the bill will pass/fail.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the
ll list without fear that
they will hurt their first choice.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
"what if anyone could modify the laws"
www.wikocracy.com
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pretty complex.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam
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)
Result: A2 wins
I think may suffer from alot of issues depending on how the intra pact voting
works.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
One more tool that can be useful in some situations is the
hierarchical structure of the states/parties. To guarantee that
certain set of states/parties will not be underrepresented they could
form a team/alliance. When seats are allocated to that team they
be defined by the person who submits the
voting method.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB
Also, what is interesting is that condorcet has alot less noise than max
utility.
I guess this is due to median being more resistant to noise than average.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
be to require that the entire
election is re-run whenever a candidate is eliminated.
This means that voting for a no-hoper is a waste of time as ultimately, he
will be eliminated and your vote will count for your true first choice anyway.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
];
second_place = i;
}
}
}
delete [] talley;
delete [] thresh;
if ( winnerR ) {
*winnerR = winner;
*(winnerR+1) = second_place;
}
// return pickOneHappiness( they, numv, winner );
}
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
forwards. If candidate order matters,
then there would be areas which are solid mixed colour.
I think the 'poll' case should be alot better as it will allow the
virtual voters to place their threshold better.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify
for Webster, then settling for Hill isn't a major
additional compromise.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail
every time)
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam
and email virus
I tried compiling it on cygwin by copying Linux.make to CYGWIN_NT-5.1.make.
It wasn't able to find random(). Is this a standard function that my
(admittantly slightly out of date) gcc doesn't have ?
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
: At global scope:
ResultFile.h:57: type specifier omitted for parameter `u_int32_t'
and lots more
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out
with all its flaws, it is giving pretty close to condorcet
while at the same time being strategic.
It looks like the problem occurs for 3 way ties, as was suggested.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
-Original
result than the previous run.
I added it to a geocities webpage.
www.geocities.com/raphfrk
I only ran 2 sims and only with 50 voters, so there is alot
of inherent noise. However, some of the 'noise' is just
blending of 2 edges due to the ties. The result is
symmetric unlike the previous case
based on number of wins
in all poll runs
5) goto 2 (maybe do 10 cycles)
6) Run main election using expected utility from all the polls
This should stabilise on 1 candidate in the limit.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
policy of the
electorate.
I am not entirely convinced that that is fair for something like spending tax
money as 51% of the
legislature should not be allowed to spend 100% of the money, but that is a
separate issue.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could
Btw, how hard is it to calculate the voronoi diagram ?
It might be interesting to have the simulation automatically overlay
the voronoi diagram lines on the results (maybe have it as a switch).
This assumes there is concensus that the voronou digram is the optimal
result.
Raphfrk
that is a good use for the vote.
It also gets the stability/simplicity of a peer assembly for actual debates.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
of the gaussian have a
non-gaussian distribution.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage
It might be worth having a one line explanation for the methods.
Most of them could be interpreted more than one way.
Also, it might be worth pointing out that most of them assume honest voters.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
then move around the votes after the election in order to
give PR.
You can't get much less complex than that.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
that the NPV Compact actually
explicitally state that that is what they are doing. The Compact
States would have some method for selecting what voting method they
want to use and then all results from all States would be mapped to
that voting method as accurately as possible.
Raphfrk
be resisted for philosophical reasons.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry
It might be worth trying it with various parameter settings.
With P-1.0, does it get better ... and/or does it just become
random ballot ?
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
://tuzakey.com/~scott/2dimensional-median-counter.png
The axes are supposed to represent issues. This means that they are not set
arbitrarily.
Rotating the axes would represent mixing issues, which is against the whole
point using city-block distance.
Raphfrk
and random ballot.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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, the supply of bread
may
decline because the baker, who has more bread than he needs always ends
up having them allocated to someone else.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
, it is possible to have a bill passed and then use
your remaining votes to block it being repealed.
Also, I would suggest that under that system that multiple bills be
passed at once. This allows compromises to be proposed.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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better to a random choice
of A or B.
Raphfrk
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be to use Asset Voting for the assembly.
PR-STV achieves (or near achieves) the same thing. The main problem
was that the Unionists and Nationalists didn't like each other. Very
few systems would work in that case.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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vote needed for the 2 parties to win.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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, this leads to some randomness.
It might be easier to explain. The real problem with PR-STV is the
fractional transfers. They are not very easy to explain.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
James Gilmour jgilmour at globalnet.co.uk
raphfrk at netscape.net Sent: 16 April 2007 20:08
It might be easier to explain. The real problem with PR-STV is the
fractional transfers. They are not very easy to explain.
Fractional transfers are absolutely essential for STV-PR (unless you
:)
).
In PR-STV with equal rankings allowed, is it normal to re-calculate the
fraction when
a candidate is eliminated (or elected)?
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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www.wikocracy.com
.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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Abd ul-Rahman Lomax abd at lomaxdesign.com
Fri Apr 20 07:55:43 PDT 2007
At 01:18 PM 4/19/2007, raphfrk at netscape.net wrote:
I was thinking about an easier solution to the vote management problem.
This is where it is sometimes in a party's interests to try to split
their support
?) candidate but prefers him to the major parties.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
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www.wikocracy.com
Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage
I have a vague memory that as part of the electronic voting
pilot scheme (3 constituencies) in Ireland, they published a
file containing a listing of all the ranked ballots cast.
Am I misremembering and if not does anyone have a link ?
Raphfrk
Interesting site
.
Something similar could be used in a town meeting type setting. OTOH, it might
break
the consensus building effect of the town meeting. If there is no penalty in
acting to
prevent consensus, then it is less likely to occur.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone
group would be
coloured slightly differently, if one group is over/under-represented, then
renormalisation could be applied.
Obviously, the characteristics for the groups would have to be clearly defined.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
more money to medicare, and homecare.
Allowing people form there own group would help here.? Also, this seems
to be a well defined situation, so could be used by the group allocation
system.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
to the most popular of A,B and C.? By splitting
the voter once it goes to an elected candidate, proportionality is maintained.
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
.? No candidate will agree to debate with certain candidates
who they find (or claim to find) unsavory.
I guess if a large media organisation ran it, they might be able to swing it.
Who currently runs the US presidential debates ?
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone
that once the point has been found, it
is tested to confirm convergence.? (When in the X(n+1) = f(X(n)) 'mode').
Raphfrk
Interesting site
what if anyone could modify the laws
www.wikocracy.com
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