Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative 2

2008-12-20 Thread James Gilmour
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:42 AM > LNH, has, I think, been pretty widely misunderstood. I don't consider > it desirable *at all*. That is, it interferes with the very desirable > process of compromise that public elections should simulate. I don't have time to

Re: [EM] FairVote on Robert's Rules of Order and IRV

2008-12-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 12:00 AM 12/20/2008, Dave Ketchum wrote: Authors of RR have their own primary goals and properly avoid the election methods wars that take place in EM, etc, - simply recommending that group's rules authors should be careful as to what methods they choose to define for their groups. Robert's

[EM] Advanced Voting Systems: the Dirty Little Secret

2008-12-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
Well, we have a huge body of work examining the performance of voting systems under various conditions, but what may be the most common and most influential condition that real voting systems face, particularly in political applications, but also elsewhere. Voter ignorance. Normal, non-reprehe

Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative 2

2008-12-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 10:36 PM 12/18/2008, Kevin Venzke wrote: Hello, --- En date de : Mar 16.12.08, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a écrit : >However, in defense of Venzke, he thinks that the situations where IRV >is non-monotonic are rare enough that it's not worth worrying about. What I think would be rare is that suc

[EM] Modeling Voters for Discussion and Simulation

2008-12-20 Thread Brian Olson
I've done a couple major runs of simulating voters and elections. I think reviewing those models might help the discussion. Most recently I've been doing the opinion space diagrams. They are based on some two-dimensional world of political thought (possibly the fiscal and social liberal-con

Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative KD

2008-12-20 Thread James Gilmour
Kevin Venzke > Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 1:49 PM > The reason I believe LNHarm is more valuable than > monotonicity is that when a method fails LNHarm, the voter is > more likely to realize in what insincere way to vote > differently, in order to compensate. When a method fails > monoto

Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative 2

2008-12-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
At 02:19 PM 12/20/2008, James Gilmour wrote: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:42 AM > LNH, has, I think, been pretty widely misunderstood. I don't consider > it desirable *at all*. That is, it interferes with the very desirable > process of compromise that public elec

Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative KD

2008-12-20 Thread Juho Laatu
Here's one explanation to why LNH might be more important to voters than monotonicity. Most voters are used to election methods where they bullet vote one of the candidates. It is a quite natural thought that if one votes multiple candidates on a single ballot then the vote that the second favouri

Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative 2

2008-12-20 Thread Dave Ketchum
On Sat, 20 Dec 2008 19:19:02 - James Gilmour wrote: Abd ul-Rahman Lomax > Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2008 12:42 AM I don't have time to read any of the extended essays that now feature on this list, but these two remarks in a recent post caught my eye and I could not let them pass. R

[EM] Some Bucklin Voting history in Cleveland, Ohio.

2008-12-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
http://publications.ohiohistory.org/ohstemplate.cfm?action=detail&Page=01117.html&StartPage=7&EndPage=&volume=111¬es=&newtitle=Volume%20111%20Page%207 The URL above, for me, loads some HTML code, which I was able to view as it was designed by selecting it all and copying it into a text file, ch

[EM] Bucklin "Momentum" from 1914.

2008-12-20 Thread Abd ul-Rahman Lomax
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/journal/113492794/abstract?CRETRY=1&SRETRY=0 Preferential voting and the rule of the majority Melvin P. Porter The progress of the Bucklin system to date (June 1, 1914) can be seen from the following list of preferential voting cities on page 582. In the Janua

Re: [EM] Why I think IRV isn't a serious alternative 2

2008-12-20 Thread Kevin Venzke
Hello, --- En date de : Ven 19.12.08, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax a écrit : > > > Highly speculative. Bucklin probably experiences > about the > > > same level of bullet voting due to LNH fears as > IRV, not > > > much more, because the "harm" only > happens when a > > > majority isn't found in the firs