EV Digest 4155
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: one-piece drive assemblies
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: RAV4 EV on eBay
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: one-piece drive assemblies
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Motor-less Zombie, Purple Phaze on the Trailer
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: RAV4 EV on eBay
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: That other VW kit
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? EV's for EVeryone or Amanda's EV
Workshop and Potluck.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by "Raymond Knight" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: NEDRA Wicked Watts April 9 . . . An Event Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) 1930 Mercedes kit car's first ride
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by Jessica & Donald Jansen & Crabtree <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) BB600 weight, was Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: NEDRA Wicked Watts April 9 . . . An Event Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania! EV's for sale, Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) C-Cars +: Cheap VW Bug EV's and Contactor controllers!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
> Are you suggesting that power loss is proportional to the gear ratio?
> That process is lossy, but it's nowhere near a direct proportion---maybe
> 30%
> with a 1:6 ratio with v-belt drive? Generator bearing friction and other
> reflected load torques certainly get amplified by the ratio when seen at
> the
> steam engine shaft, but that doesn't mean that power gets reduced
> proportional to the ratio.
FWIW, some stuff I've learned about belts:
As far as belts go, V-belts have about the WORST power/energy tranfer
efficiency. ANd that's when they are setup correctly, setting them up
wrong can result in loosing 50% or more.
The torque transfer is related to the contact surface area between the
belt and the pulley and belt tension.
When properly designed, loss is related primarily to belt flexing
(bending), side loads on the bearings and, to some extent, slippage.
If the tension is too low, you loose more in slipping. If the belt is to
small you have to put excessive side loads to prevent slipping. If you've
chosen a belt that is to large then you loose more energy in belt flexing.
A better alternative is a serpintine belt which can provide the same
surface area, but lower flexing looses.
An even better alternative is a cogged belt which can provide even MORE
torque with a smaller belt and even lower flexing looses, and lower side
loads.
A (possibly) better alternative is a well oiled chain, the key words being
well oiled. However, they can be messy and keeping them well oiled in a
wet, steamy enviroment can be even messier.
Given the low RPMs, you might be able to design a covered chain drive with
the large cog barely dipping the chain into a resevoir of oil.
You can get a 6:1 ratio using (fairly)common #25 chain. Cloud electric
has these parts:
http://www.cloudelectric.com/category.html?UCIDs=1181158
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is essentially about unsprung weight.
That is something you want to reduce, not add to.
Also... do you want your motor and related components rattled like a gallon
of paint in a shaker? That is what you will have if you connect your
components directly to a one-piece differential/axle unit.
How much continuous flexing do you think that 2/0 cable might take? And for
how long?
Sounds like a rough ride to me.
Sam Uzi wrote:
I was just wondering how common a practice it is to remove the universal
joint from an existing drive train (transmission or other reduction
gearing, axle, joint, rear differential, wheels), and hard-mount the
tranmission and motor to the differential housing?... (I vaugely recall
reading about that before on the list, but can't remember details)
these one-piece drive units could be mass-assembled in batches from
varieties of scrounged/donated/purchased components pretty efficiently...
I'm guessing that, logically, the controller electronics should be included
in this drive unit assembly
use these drive units in conversions or, for more "ground-up" EVs,
load-bearing assemblies - including non-drive wheels (if any), steering
mechanism (if any), suspention (if any), frame, rigging (if any), passenger
containment (if any), power bus/batt. pack/charger - could then be built
from standardized/available parts to fit individual drive units and
operational requirements...
...something to keep in mind for the previously discussed non-profit
neighborhood public access EV shops, where anyone can take courses to learn
(and then practice) EV construction/conversion in a practical
environment... each course would complete the entire construction cycle
(scrounging, prep, design, assembly test, certification) of a small fleet
of EVs for distribution and sale... give people who complete each course
preference (and significant discount) on purchasing vehicles from the
fleets they've built... also allow people to bring their own parts to
build up their personalized EV as one of the fleet...
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris, Shari, Otmar, and all,
If one has the good fortune to be starting off with a clean, corrosion-free
914, do you have any suggestions for corrosion prevention strategies to keep
it that way for many years to come?
Clearly one would be to keep the car garaged, while another would be to use
fully enclosed and sealed battery boxes such as those of Shari's
VoltsPorsche kit.
Any other corrosion-proofing/prevention measures you can think of or advise
for a clean 914 in excellent condition (including paint, i.e. which doesn't
need repainting)?
(All of those linked 914 rustbucket pics are pretty scary. Hope to avoid a
similar fate, which unfortunately seems to be all too common for 914s!)
Thanks,
Charles
As a 914 owner myself, I'd have to say that you really need to prod hard
on this car for the rust. A single starter battery that leaks on the frame
will usually wreck a 914 (rusts out the inner wheelhouse); having 12
batteries in a "collector" car would freak me out. I replaced my 914's
battery with a 26ah Hawker; they really do rust.
Granted, rust is a serious issue, and any car should be checked thoroughly
for it, especially potential donor cars. And what you are describing is
not rust, it is corrosion (which can lead to rust). However, corrosion or
rust is NOT a given with flooded batteries. It depends on how they are
installed. Most car starter batteries just sit there naked, and yes, the
area corrodes out, in ANY car. In our 914 Voltsporsche Kit (which this
eBay car is NOT an example of) all of the batteries are fully enclosed in
polypropylene boxes, and corrosion/rust is not a problem.
And, yes, the Kurt Bohan selling this car would be the former associate of
Roy Kaylor, and did edit Current EVents for a while.
Shari Prange
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What's the deal with servicing on those second-hand RAV4-EVs bought on eBay?
I believe that Toyota originally would only sell them to people who lived in
California near one of their select dealers that was specifically set up and
trained to service them. So what if I were to buy a second-hand RAV4-EV on
eBay and ship it across the country to Florida, where I live? Would my
local Toyota dealer be able to get the service manual from Toyota North
America in Torrance and be able to service it for me?
Well, that's somewhat of a rhetorical question, the answer to which, I
assume, is probably "no". Yes?
Charles
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: RAV4 EV on eBay
$30K starting bid, which I can't afford (and from what has been posted
here,
neither can Remy!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> I was just wondering how common a practice it is to remove the universal
> joint from an existing drive train (transmission or other reduction
> gearing, axle, joint, rear differential, wheels), and hard-mount the
> tranmission and motor to the differential housing?... (I vaugely recall
> reading about that before on the list, but can't remember details)
>
> these one-piece drive units could be mass-assembled in batches from
> varieties of scrounged/donated/purchased components pretty efficiently...
> I'm guessing that, logically, the controller electronics should be
> included in this drive unit assembly
On a live axle? That would be a bad idea. Huge increase in unsprung
weight, not to meniton all the road vibration that the motor/tranny would
now be subject too.
Now if it's a transaxle, i.e. VW/Porsche/Corvair/etc. Totally different
situation.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nice to hear that you got stuff goin' on with the old 520 pickup John. Been
sittin' there for a while. :^D
Can you give us some more details as to the plan for the 520?
I've been wanting to convert a similar vehicle.
Refresh our memories... Isn't the rated weight carrying capacity actually
more than the empty vehicle weight with these trucks? :^D
John Wayland wrote:
This Saturday, my wife and I are off to the central Oregon area, where we
will haul the
minitruck and the Zombie's motors to Jim Husted's 'High Torque Electric'
shop in Redmond. Jim
and I will disassemble the motors and press out the armature shafts, to
prepare them for the
intense mods planned. The minitruck will be
right next door at Dan's composite shop, where
the custom bed will be made.
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are some RAV4 EVs in Georgia, I believe. That might be the
closest dealer that could work on the car.
Marc
On Mar 4, 2005, at 8:22 PM, Charles Whalen wrote:
What's the deal with servicing on those second-hand RAV4-EVs bought on
eBay?
I believe that Toyota originally would only sell them to people who
lived in
California near one of their select dealers that was specifically set
up and
trained to service them. So what if I were to buy a second-hand
RAV4-EV on
eBay and ship it across the country to Florida, where I live? Would my
local Toyota dealer be able to get the service manual from Toyota North
America in Torrance and be able to service it for me?
Well, that's somewhat of a rhetorical question, the answer to which, I
assume, is probably "no". Yes?
Charles
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:45 PM
Subject: RAV4 EV on eBay
$30K starting bid, which I can't afford (and from what has been posted
here,
neither can Remy!)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
POR 15 seems to be a popular hit with 914's. I'm using some of it on my
Elec-Trak snowblower and despite a winter of snow and rocks it's
sticking very well to the chute
Chris
Charles Whalen wrote:
Hi Chris, Shari, Otmar, and all,
If one has the good fortune to be starting off with a clean, corrosion-free
914, do you have any suggestions for corrosion prevention strategies to
keep
it that way for many years to come?
Clearly one would be to keep the car garaged, while another would be to use
fully enclosed and sealed battery boxes such as those of Shari's
VoltsPorsche kit.
Any other corrosion-proofing/prevention measures you can think of or advise
for a clean 914 in excellent condition (including paint, i.e. which doesn't
need repainting)?
(All of those linked 914 rustbucket pics are pretty scary. Hope to avoid a
similar fate, which unfortunately seems to be all too common for 914s!)
Thanks,
Charles
As a 914 owner myself, I'd have to say that you really need to prod hard
on this car for the rust. A single starter battery that leaks on the
frame
will usually wreck a 914 (rusts out the inner wheelhouse); having 12
batteries in a "collector" car would freak me out. I replaced my 914's
battery with a 26ah Hawker; they really do rust.
Granted, rust is a serious issue, and any car should be checked
thoroughly
for it, especially potential donor cars. And what you are describing is
not rust, it is corrosion (which can lead to rust). However,
corrosion or
rust is NOT a given with flooded batteries. It depends on how they are
installed. Most car starter batteries just sit there naked, and yes, the
area corrodes out, in ANY car. In our 914 Voltsporsche Kit (which this
eBay car is NOT an example of) all of the batteries are fully enclosed in
polypropylene boxes, and corrosion/rust is not a problem.
And, yes, the Kurt Bohan selling this car would be the former
associate of
Roy Kaylor, and did edit Current EVents for a while.
Shari Prange
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:04 PM -0500 3-4-05, Charles Whalen wrote:
Hi Chris, Shari, Otmar, and all,
If one has the good fortune to be starting off with a clean, corrosion-free
914, do you have any suggestions for corrosion prevention strategies to keep
it that way for many years to come?
There are a few common things to do like keeping them clean. It's
dirt buildup that holds moisture and starts rust. There are a few key
areas that have drain holes in them, those need to be checked and
cleaned regularly.
Beyond that, I suggest getting on the 914 club forum at http://www.914club.com/
There you will find thousands of 914 owners who are happy to help you
with anything 914 related.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Okay, Philippe, so you're the genius:
> it's a LEMCO not an Etek ! it can even go upper 600A few seconds
Why do you feel emphatic that it's a Lemco and not an Etek?
And if so, what does it matter when even an ETEK can likely go a few seconds
with the upper 600amps?
As I see it, yes, the first image on the site shows a LEMCO installed
belt-driven to the gas motor, but take a look at the NEXT PIC, it clearly
does NOT show a LEMCO, but an ETEK installed.
If YOU were manufacturing this hybrid for production, and you found that the
ETEK delivered pretty much what you needed, for 1/3rd the price, uh,
wouldn't you cut the cost and go with the ETEK?
I think so.
So let's agree: the first image shows a Lynch and the second shows an ETEK.
So what?
-MT
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab asks:
> Does the belt ratio look backwards to anyone? I mean with
> that small of a motor, wouldn't you want to multiply torque?
Indeed.
The LEMCO at least looks like it's not geared right.
I'm not familiar with its specs, but it's shown with nearly a 4:1 ratio.
If it's like the Etek with a max RPM of under 4000, this would limit the
engine max speed to 1000RPM---so it doesn't look right.
The second image, showing the ETEK mounted to the motor, seems about right.
The ratio is opposite, with roughly a 1:2 ratio, indicating that the motor
could spin as high as 8000RPM.
So what is up with that LEMCO?
-Myles
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If that was for the aircraft starter gen VW bug kit listing that the fellow
was selling for something like a grand, IIRC it was a Kaylor adapter. If you
are just looking to build a DC bug I have an aircraft starter gen and Corbin
adapter I might part with. No coupler tho.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 03, 2005 1:31 PM
Subject: That other VW kit
A while back, I saw on ebay an adapter for a VW conversion. This
adapter was made of (or at least looked like) cast aluminum. It also
seems that it had a web page about it hosted on an AOL server.
I've searched and searched and I can't find any trace of this item.
What I really want to know is, who did the casting for this adapter?
It seems like it had quite a history behind it.
Anyone have any info on this particular adapter?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
peace man, no problem here, never forget you cannot read my message like if
it was write by an american (maybe you note it)
my english is, hum, let's say approximative...i'm french ;^)
resume:
i see a lemco on a picture when you are talking about an etek so i simply
said: hey men, it's a lemco :^)
(great to learn i'm a genius for that :^)
Lemco laugh at double Etek power so be carreful what you pay for ! (though
etek is unbeatable price/power)
i hope second page system is 1/4 the first system cost...
i have internal picture of both mines, similar conception but not
robustness, that was my point of view.
end of my emphatic feeling ;^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: RE: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
> Okay, Philippe, so you're the genius:
>
> > it's a LEMCO not an Etek ! it can even go upper 600A few seconds
>
> Why do you feel emphatic that it's a Lemco and not an Etek?
> And if so, what does it matter when even an ETEK can likely go a few
seconds
> with the upper 600amps?
>
> As I see it, yes, the first image on the site shows a LEMCO installed
> belt-driven to the gas motor, but take a look at the NEXT PIC, it clearly
> does NOT show a LEMCO, but an ETEK installed.
>
> If YOU were manufacturing this hybrid for production, and you found that
the
> ETEK delivered pretty much what you needed, for 1/3rd the price, uh,
> wouldn't you cut the cost and go with the ETEK?
> I think so.
>
> So let's agree: the first image shows a Lynch and the second shows an
ETEK.
> So what?
>
> -MT
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Message: 1
Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 20:06:48 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: Why bother saving factory EV's????
I love your vision of cheap, home made, art cars tootling around town.
I've got just such a VW in my Dad's driveway in Menlo Park and have long
thought about converting it. (He's dead so he probably wouldn't mind; he
was an electrical engineer. His wife leaves the car sitting there for
sentimental reasons). Don't think I could do it by myself though. Anyone
for a club project? One-day workshop?
Amanda
Amanda if you provide the parts I will personally come down for the one day
workshop. It will be the EV version of Jimmy Carters Habitat for Humanity
or in our case EV's for EVeryone. I'll bring tools and a crimper. I will
help install your kit. Anybody that wants to come I hope you would invite.
There are numerous people in the area that have great interest in this kit.
Might be nice to have a potluck to go with the workshop. It should only
take a few hours to do most of it. Of course there always little things to
do that require special gadgets. However we should get your bug running in
one afternoon. A lot of people could learn how simple this is to do.
Here is what you will need:
Your Daddy's VW. Which will be know afterward as not your Fathers VW.
The kit http://www.e-volks.com/about.html
6 US 125's or Trojan T105's or simular battery 6v golfcart or what the kit
manufacturer recommends.
A Variac for the charger. During the day I can make a run with you to one
of the surplus stores in San Jose or Santa Clara unless someone will donate
or sell you a Variac. You will also need a $3.50 diode bridge and some
circuit breakers 20 amp 36v should do.
A Volt meter
Some simple tools. Adjustable wrench, 1/2 inch wrench 9/16 wrench or 13mm &
14mm wrench & Screwdrivers A kit of metric and american wrenches would be
good if you can afford them.. This will include the above wrenches . Wire
tools I'll bring. Along with a welder, drills and misc. tools.
A DC/DC converter unless it is in the kit.
You can also use a Deep cycle 12v battery and charge with a seperate
charger.
Optional. Angle iron for the rear battery box if you don't want the
batteries behind the back seat.
I've emailed the manufacturer for an exact parts list.
Otmar if you want to drop by and check our progress or lend a hand you would
be welcome as well as any other knowedgeable EVer's close by.
Oh yes taking the motor out. Is the motor out? Condition of the car.
Tires, brakes etc. If the motor is in you might be able to sell it on
Craigs List and I bet someone will come and take it out and maybe pay you to
do so.
Amanda. Please email back how many people you have room for and when you
want to do it. I am a Musician so I work some weekends so it'll have to be
planned in advance. Should we call this Amanda's EV Workshop and Potluck?
Lawrence Rhodes.........
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Miles and All,
--- Myles Twete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > it's a LEMCO not an Etek ! it can even go upper
> 600A few seconds
Not even 1 sec and I have a useless, melted com
e-tek to prove it!
Starting up a slight incline at 36vdc thru a C-car
resistor so probably got no where near 600 amps. It
bit the big one quickly. So don't over load it!!
I'm using the magnets though to make a modular
BLDC motor.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> Why do you feel emphatic that it's a Lemco and not
> an Etek?
> And if so, what does it matter when even an ETEK can
> likely go a few seconds
> with the upper 600amps?
>
> As I see it, yes, the first image on the site shows
> a LEMCO installed
> belt-driven to the gas motor, but take a look at the
> NEXT PIC, it clearly
> does NOT show a LEMCO, but an ETEK installed.
>
> If YOU were manufacturing this hybrid for
> production, and you found that the
> ETEK delivered pretty much what you needed, for
> 1/3rd the price, uh,
> wouldn't you cut the cost and go with the ETEK?
> I think so.
>
> So let's agree: the first image shows a Lynch and
> the second shows an ETEK.
> So what?
>
> -MT
>
>
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When testing using my new test bench, a JBT5-P, the test parameters are to
13.2volts (SAE spec I believe). Meaning it puts out 55amps at 2000rpm at
13.2volts. It is also supposed to be temperature stabilized. Not sure what
they mean by that though. I think they mean it is brought up closer to
operating temperature before the test is done. Going through the test cycle
it checks for leaks, then tests regulators set point voltage, then checks
turn on rpm, then full fields it at around 3000 rpm (usually I will an extra
30% over test results here), then it brings it up to 6000 rpm and runs the
test down to about 10amps. When it is done the alternator is usually too hot
too touch, about 125F, which is close to what it is in service. We sometimes
will do several repeated tests back to back to get the alternator to 150+F,
which is right in line with service temperatures. Typically there will be
about a 10% loss in the top end output doing it this way.
When testing on my old test bench, I usually drag it down to about 14volts,
unless the customer is looking then I full field it to 12volts, just to
impress them. But my old bench only goes to 100amps unless I am using a
separate hand clamp meter.
The Ecoair comes rated at 240amps at 77F at 1650rpm, and 185amps at 200F at
1650rpm. The 10478101's are rated the same way I rate my units.
The Bosch I don't know about. There is a major trend going on like what
Thermodyne did. I hate to say it but it is becoming the norm with
starters/alternators/and batteries. Really poor marketing by my standards. I
look at it as the new school way of doing business. Where handshakes mean
nothing, you will be told what ever you need to hear to make the sale, and
there is tons of fine print involved. For 35years we have gone by "Quality,
Service, and Integrity". But since the ISO9000 crap came along, I have been
thinking of changing it as they are busily ruining the thought.
As for real world tests, I am all for it. Some of it I know off hand, some
of it I might know by a different phrase, and some it I won't have a clue
how to do.
The diodes are easy, typical button diodes have forward voltage drops of 0.7
volts. The avalanche diodes are 0.5volts. Performance curves such as
efficiency I cannot do. If you want output/rpm/at 13.2 or 26.4, no problem.
Internal resistance, I don't know. Which brings up a question from me, how
do I test the internal resistance of a battery?
Again you are welcome to take one of my alternators and test it yourself. I
would be interested in seeing the results. The more real world information I
get about what I am doing, the better.
About the pulley ratios. Correct me if I am wrong here. An alternator sets
the load according to how much power it needs to produce. So if it requires
1.5hp to turn it, and you are spinning it at a 6 to 1 ratio, the larger
pulley needs to be producing 6 times the 1.5hp, i.e. 9hp. Reversing this if
you were under driving it 3 to 1, then you would only need 1/3 the 1.5hp,
i.e. .5hp. Correct? The more I think about this though, alternators probably
require very little HP, but lots of torque. Maybe we have always look at it
as HP because it has a fixed relationship to torque in an ICE. But with your
steam engine it is a different relationship? I say all this because I have
seen many people try and make homemade generators with alternators, and only
succeed in stalling the motors, which is what I would have expected with
your 1.5hp set up.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will not attend this years Strip race.I have a ADRA series race april8th.
Dennis Berube
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--- Begin Message ---
Jerry, i'm talking about the LEMCO !
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 1:52 PM
Subject: RE: Aftermarket Hybrid electric system
> Hi Miles and All,
> --- Myles Twete <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > > it's a LEMCO not an Etek ! it can even go upper
> > 600A few seconds
>
> Not even 1 sec and I have a useless, melted com
> e-tek to prove it!
> Starting up a slight incline at 36vdc thru a C-car
> resistor so probably got no where near 600 amps. It
> bit the big one quickly. So don't over load it!!
> I'm using the magnets though to make a modular
> BLDC motor.
> HTH's,
> jerry dycus
>
> >
> > Why do you feel emphatic that it's a Lemco and not
> > an Etek?
> > And if so, what does it matter when even an ETEK can
> > likely go a few seconds
> > with the upper 600amps?
> >
> > As I see it, yes, the first image on the site shows
> > a LEMCO installed
> > belt-driven to the gas motor, but take a look at the
> > NEXT PIC, it clearly
> > does NOT show a LEMCO, but an ETEK installed.
> >
> > If YOU were manufacturing this hybrid for
> > production, and you found that the
> > ETEK delivered pretty much what you needed, for
> > 1/3rd the price, uh,
> > wouldn't you cut the cost and go with the ETEK?
> > I think so.
> >
> > So let's agree: the first image shows a Lynch and
> > the second shows an ETEK.
> > So what?
> >
> > -MT
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
> Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
> http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got the motor mounted in and of course that means it's time for a little
first ride . I put one 12v orbital in and hooked it right up to the motor
with the car in nurtral . The car weighted 2150 with the motor , and the car
went very well for just one battery . Tom my EV friend for Okeechobee has
been comming over and helping and we motored around the block checking out
the gears . There is a big car show next saterday in Okeechobee Florida
which I went to last year and I sighned up again for this year . Well the
other day while we where working on this car it hit me "This is the car for
the show , even though the Mazda was a hit last year it was a little out of
place in a sea of bueatiful cars . So the push is on to get it done enough
for the show , been seening intresting stuff on the adaptor plates . Went
and got the 20 orbitals so all the part are here ,
Steve clunn
I just finished the adapter plate for the 1930 Mercedes kit car ,
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projects.htm
and used some new ideas I had after doing the 300 zx. to get the holes in
the plate to line up with the tranny holes I just set the tranny on the
plate and with a pencil marked them out . Then I drilled them extra big
5/8 . I then cut ten 1 1/2" squares with the exact size hole to fit the
tranny bolts , bolted it up not to tight , put 12v to the motor , taped
the tranny around till it make the least amount of noise , tightened the
bolts and welded the plates to the tranny plate
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projectresearch.htm ( this page seemed to load
slow ) .
I got a new idea while doing this one . since I'm using the motor as the
lath , it wouldn't be hard to make a plate/stand for the motor that would
allow for turning something bigger like a 2 foot square . first I cut a
circle the size for a fly wheel form the aluminum plate , then the rest
of the plate could be used for the tranny plate . with the "was" 2 foot
square now round flywheel that is bolted to the hub , put a big grove
where the presser plate bolts would be , . I'm thinking it would be easier
to make a aluminum fly wheel that to make the hub that holds the flywheel
, . The one I just did ended up being only .001 out of true :-).
Steve clunn
.
The goal is to provide sufficiently detailed instructions, that do not
require too many special skills or tools, and with sources and prices
for parts, so that a reasonable person can look it over and say, "Yes! I
can do that!"
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon, John -
I believe that 156 volts will work just fine.
DragonRose did 100 mph in the quarter mile, 156 volts (13 Hawkers), 13.5 ea.
for175.5lb. I
have never weighed the bike, but from component weights I,d
guess 400lb.and very bad aero.
When Volks Dragon is complete I plan to race it in MC/D class also. I'm trying
to keep the finished weight under 2000lb.
Father Time
John Wayland wrote:
> Hello to All,
>
> damon henry wrote:
>
> > I'm curious. Why all this effort into making a non street legal drag racer
> > that is slower than the street legal drag racer you already have?
>
> I've been waiting for others to step up with their EVs to join in the fun of
> electric drag
> racing, but so far, there's not a lot of new racers...sooo, I guess I'll just
> make another
> one myself :-)
>
> Seriously though, it goes like this.....I've had this cool minitruck
> languishing in my
> driveway....I found this HUGE Allis Chalmers DC motor, and my buddy Jim
> Husted is chomping
> at the bit to help me turn it into a full blown race motor with variable brush
> timing....I've got a Raptor 1200 that will be pulled from Blue
> Meanie.....I've got
> Orbitals coming out my ears...I've got enough parts to put together another
> Ford nine inch
> axle setup...I've got 'Dan the composite man' ready to make a super light
> bed.....and, I'm
> looking at the MC-D class record of 18 seconds. To me, this is a no brainer.
>
> The other thing that makes me really want to do this project, is that I can
> already see
> the reaction from race fans in the pits, when I tilt up the bed to reveal the
> monster
> electric motor! The hole shot launch should be awesome, with sticky fat drag
> slicks and
> massive low end torque from a 13 inch, 3 foot long series wound motor with
> brushes near
> neutral!
>
> >Is this only the first configuration you are planning with this truck?
>
> Now Damon, what do you think? Let's see what I can get out of it at 156V
> first, then......
>
> See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Though I don't have first hand knowledge, I've been told that the BB600
nicads are 3.5 pounds each. At 1.2V each, 300V and two strings would
mean 500 batteries, meaning 1750lbs. Probably a lot for a tiny two
seater...(?)
Does anyone have more accurate information on the weight of these cells?
--chris
Peter VanDerWal said:
>> All that said, I am currently drooling over the AC version of the
>> VoltsPorsche on ElectroAuto's site. I wonder what a 914 would do with a
>> 100kw AC motor, regen, and two strings of BB600 NiCDs at 300 volts
>> (80ah). Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......
>
> Could you get two 300V strings of BB600s in a 914?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 3/5/2005 5:37:48 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I will not attend this years Strip race.I have a ADRA series race april8th.
Dennis Berube
Dennis, how much money could you win at this ADRA bracket race?
Jim
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, March 04, 2005 8:48 PM
Subject: Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
> Hello to All,
>
> damon henry wrote:
> John Wayland wrote
> > I'm curious. Why all this effort into making a non street legal drag
racer
> > that is slower than the street legal drag racer you already have?
>
> I've been waiting for others to step up with their EVs to join in the fun
of electric drag
> racing, but so far, there's not a lot of new racers...sooo, I guess I'll
just make another
> one myself :-)
> Cool! The more the merrier!
> Seriously though, it goes like this.....I've had this cool minitruck
languishing in my
> driveway....I found this HUGE Allis Chalmers DC motor, and my buddy Jim
Husted is chomping
> at the bit to help me turn it into a full blown race motor with variable
brush
> timing....I've got a Raptor 1200 that will be pulled from Blue
Meanie.....I've got
> Orbitals coming out my ears...I've got enough parts to put together
another Ford nine inch
Gees! Drool! Nice to have goodies in house! Garage!
> axle setup...I've got 'Dan the composite man' ready to make a super light
bed.....and, I'm
> looking at the MC-D class record of 18 seconds. To me, this is a no
brainer.
> As this machine is a real wheel drive, as I remember? It should sorta
stand up on those gooey slicks and just GO!
> The other thing that makes me really want to do this project, is that I
can already see
> the reaction from race fans in the pits, when I tilt up the bed to reveal
the monster
> electric motor! The hole shot launch should be awesome, with sticky fat
drag slicks and
> massive low end torque from a 13 inch, 3 foot long series wound motor with
brushes near
> neutral!
> Some Motor!! Almost Streetcar size! I mean Trolley car, track an'
wire. How much duz this motor WEIGH? No Wheelies if it weighs in @400
lbs!Plus!
> >Is this only the first configuration you are planning with this truck?
>
> Now Damon, what do you think? Let's see what I can get out of it at 156V
first, then......
> The walls of John's Garage will hava lot of twisted broken stuff to admire
when I get out to Woodburn this Summer<g>!
> See Ya......John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
>
Part Two: Not done yet.
Remember those EV's that were put on the block at White Planes, NY?
Yup, Tony and I drove down to look at them, 3 Ranger trucks, a Solectria
Force, a Orphen GMC Van conversion, never seen any like that. a few Cushman
3 wheelers. Minimun bid for the trucks was 1500 each, Hell! White Planes
BOUGHT them up front at about 30 grand, Same for the Force. We cheaped out
figuring that not many people KNEW that WP EVen HAD any EV's. Well,
SURPRISE! I called Steve, the guy that showed us around. The trucks went for
2500 each, the Solectria at 4300bux the Van for 2700 and the Cushmans for
250, OK tell me nobody wants EV's
OK Listers raise yur right hand! Anybody buy a White Planes Vehicle? Just
had to ask.I hope they went to a loving home on the List? Seems that battery
charging issues got them down, in the fiirst place, plug it in, nothing
happens, walk away. It's DEAD, Jim, or Steve. Sad as they had a buncha EXTRA
chargers stacked up in the cabs!! All they needed was a Tony , Electric
Vehicle Systems, Co. servive call to put things right, and they would be
motoring along today.
What can I say? Sigh! All the vehicles are DEAD! Wont EVen move onto a
car carrier, EVen! Well, Tony figgured that you could charge things enough
to drive up a ramp?But SOMEBODY got a few nice clean EV's for a good price,
just beyond what I wanted to pay. Those daze of a few hundred bux gets you a
EV "needs batteries" are over.
Save the EV-1's Will GM back down? Stay tuned. But to comment on the
"Who Needs Production" cars? Get real, old VW's are cute, but whothehell
wants to deal with an old , technology, obsolete technology car? No Sir Ree!
Swoosh! That cool gear sound! I want my EV-1! I drove it a number of times,
compared tp my crappy old Rabbit it was like running an Acela to a 200 car
freight train. Crappy old Rabbit will wallow along til I can do better.
Nicads, whatEVer. That's why were here, spread the technology.If GM would
take my 24k check, I'll be on the train, ride for free, maybe Jet Blue, a
tad faster, out to Burbank to rent a truck to bring it home!! Out of fantesy
mode. Now for the next auction in ,say Silver Trains ,DE, MA OR??
Off this AM to thre Better Battery and Motor thing at Foxwoods. Just down
the road from me. The Indians, flush with Casino money want to get involved
in cleaner cars.
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 10:20:52 -0800 (PST), jerry dycus
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> >> C-car's performance with
> >> the AXE 450 amp controller is with a fraction of
> an
> >
> > This is a higher amp controller, Altraxs?, like
> I
> >said would be better.
> > I was comparing the CC to a Curtis 400 amp that
> >only puts out about 300 motor amps. Reread and
> you'll
> >see.
>
> I didn't realize Curtis misrepresented its
> controller so badly. My
Yes they do. I didn't know Altrax put out 650 motor
amps on it's AXE450 though it's what he did on his DCP
controllers.
> only experience with a Curtis is with the
> remaned-by-evparts 400 amp
> unit that came in my GoBig scooter. That controller
> does indeed do
> almost exactly 400 motor amps. Was it the reman or
> the original
> design?
Probably as the cost for better FET's, ect isn't
much different from the lousy ones Curtis used in
these small controllers.
EV parts made a 650 amp version as others did from
dead cores, most used in C-cars for flater regions
like Fla amoung other uses but a CC still beats it.
>
> Maybe we can agree that a Citi with a poorly
> selected controller is
> slower.
Yes we can ;-)
>
> >
> >
> >>
> >> The acceleration is only a little slower and then
> >> only up to about 10
> >
> > This is where I said a CC was better besides
> costs
> >and you seem to agree.
>
> The practical difference may be a half car length at
> the end of the
> acceleration run. Certainly not enough of a
> difference to give up all
> the other benefits.
The practical difference is getting across the
street in traffic!!!
That first 50' is much more important than top
speed. So for me and most people it is very worthwhile
for safety reasons.
>
> >
> >> mph. This is because the AXE current-limits at
> 650
> >> amps motor
> >> current. Once it hits about 10 mph, the
> >> acceleration is the same.
> >
> > With your better EC yes, but worse with a
> Curtis.
> > How much does your EC cost?
>
> First one, just under $700 I think. I paid extra for
> the plug braking
> option, IMHO, a vital safety feature, given the
> Citi's brakes. The
> second, bought used from a list member, about $250,
> not sure.
Me being cheap, $700 + $250 + acceleration pot
Vs $90 for the CC and a spare contactor cuts my EV
costs in half!! Worth to me ;-) That's for my new
72vdc EV.
My e-woody only uses 2 SPST contactors and a
manual reverse switch so costs even less.
Another way on the C-cars is use 2 resistor
speeds on 36 or 48vdc and field weakening on the 36vdc
version.
Never go faster than 45mph in a C-car!!!
And you are so correct about the C-cars brakes is
one reason why!!!
>
> > How long, how much does it take to be
> repaired?
>
> Don't know. Not a major issue here because a) it
> hasn't failed and b)
> if it does, I simply move the wires over to the
> backup controller
> bolted down right beside it and continue driving. I
> will then either
> send it off or buy another. I don't know if it is
> repairable or not,
> as it looks potted from the serial port hole.
Cost of repair is different though.
>
> I don't want to sound like a spend-thrift, for Lord
> knows money comes
> dear in the restaurant business, but cost here just
> isn't a major
But for most of us it is as is downtime.
Especially if it doubles the cost of the EV!!
> issue. Living and working in the same building
Very smart!
> means that almost all
> of my errand-running is done in the Citi. The cost
> saving as opposed
> to short-running my gas car is large enough that if
Short trips in a reg car will damage it and
produce much more pollution than driving longer
distances and an area where EV's shine. With gas about
to go up about $.25/gal cheaper too.
> I have to drop a
> few hundred on a controller every few years, even
> though I suspect
> that I won't, so be it. The reality will be, I
> suspect, that the much
> gentler service my motor sees will actually save me
> money.
I just haven't seen a problem with my motor since
I serviced it. It was 35yrs old when I got it from a
C-car.
>
> I got my Citi for almost nothing because the motor
> was dead. The
> reason it was dead was that the brush interconnects
> had overheated
> enough to loosen the rivets which let them come
> together. I'd just
> bet that the overheating came from the
> across-the-line starting.
Could have but more likely corrosion as mine had
weaking the brush leads too and causing multiple
failures until I replaced both the brush holder and
the brushes. Since then with good brush seating, no
problems in 1.5 yrs.
I run mine at 4.3-1 gear ratio and 12" tires so much
harder than a C-car that runs 10" tires and a 6or8-1
depending on the rear end used. But I get 55-60mph
from it on 48vdc.
>
> BTW, you might be interested in my motor mod page:
>
>
http://www.johngsbbq.com/Neon_John_site/EV/motor_repair/motor_repair.htm
Interesting and I'll think about if I ever need to
tear it down again. Thanks.
>
> I'd give this a little thought before doing it to a
> contactor
> controlled car, as the dramatically reduced
> resistance could result in
> quite high current. It does provide a significant
> performance boost.
At low speeds and hill climbing at least a CC is
better.
An EC with 1,000 amps now available only recently
could beat it though but at higher costs.
>
>
> > Did you use the resistor and let it come up to
> >speed before you switched speeds? Or put the pedal
> to
> >the metal?
>
> Mine would do all of about 3 mph on the resistor.
> My parking lot is
> on an about 5% grade. It wouldn't even move going
> uphill on that
They were rather anemic ;-).
I went to a larger, lower ohm resistor, 2 big GC
ones in parallel, so I can go much faster before I
need to switch in full speed with my 2 speed, resistor
and full CC on 36vdc pack. I usually get to about
10mph before switching unless I need more speed for
safety. I go 35mph on the resistor if I let it go that
far which I don't.
Try 2 or 3 golf cart resistors in parallel instead
of the stock ribbon one may help. Then use you EC on a
better EV!
> grade. I'd try to get it to move just a little so I
> wouldn't be
> hammering just one commutator bar and then go to the
> parallel setting.
> Big thump. Another big thump when I hit the series
> position.
>
> > As I use mine without a parallel batt starting,
> >just the resistor it can be used with an e-meter.
> > Though the e meter's reliability is fairly bad
> and
> >are costly. It can easily be replaced with a DVM,
> amp
> >meter and a brain with experience, cheaper and
> more
> >reliable.
>
> First I'd heard about unreliability. I have, um,
Many fried E-meters on the list though mostly done
while servicing, installing!!! Isolation problems of
the E-meter's power supply are the biggest reasons.
> about 6 of them
> between my EVs and my motorhomes plus the one set up
> as a test
On 12-24 vdc no problems but when using with a
higher voltage batt pack can be interesting ;-)
> instrument. No problems yet. I'm just not into the
> voltmeter/ammeter
> and guestimating routine so I'll stick with the
> E-meter. I like not
> having to think about what the reading says.
Using my brain instead is how I learn what's going
on so to make my EV's better. KIS
>
> >> * Smooth path to my 72 volt upgrade.
> >
> > Same here as my new EV will be 72vdc. Costs for
> >it's 4-5 speed CC about $75 with a spare contactor.
> >I'll use a golf cart transaxle for it.
>
> Where are you going to get 4-6 contactors for about
> $75? This is a
> serious question, as I'd buy a bunch at that price.
Surpluscenter.com is where as I've said in several
recent posts! They have 48-60 volt coils so you'll
need a small resistor or a DC/DC to power them. They
use little current at 450 ohms so either is not a
problem. I use a small batt to increase my 36vdc pack
to use them. I charge it just once a month!
>
> Do you know of any good sources for a used golf cart
> transaxle? I
> just got a couple of Citi parts cars. I'm thinking
> about extending
> the frame a little and going to a more powerful cart
> axle. None of
> the golf cart shops around here will own up to
> having a bone yard so
> I'm looking.
The transaxle is the same as the older EZ-go 8-12
people transporters. CommuterCars used bigger ones and
Commutervans used 12hp 72vdc units that you could use
but why?
>
> I think that a Citi with about another foot in the
> wheelbase and the
> corresponding increase in height (maintaining the
> doorstop profile)
> will make a wonderful car and still be cute. I need
> the headroom at
> 6'7". Maybe upgrade the front end to use more
> modern components too.
While they are cool I don't believe they are worth
upgrading. Best to use them as they were made.
Better would be to use this same stuff and do a VW
Bug EV or other lightweight EV conversion or be like
me and build from sctrach!
It would be much better, faster and have better
resale value. Then sell the C-car for someone else to
start EVing, starting the cycle all over again ;-))
Used, running C-cars get $1-3,000.
Finially warm today so out to build my new
woody ;-)
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
=== message truncated ===
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
