EV Digest 5567
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Motor sizing.
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Sorry about the "New Graphics Site" e-mail, BUT
by mark olejarczyk <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Looking for EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Peter Shabino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: PHEV - speed? (Prius, mechanically speaking 72mph ev mode)
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) HOV Stickers Going Away in CA?
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Motor sizing.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: [RAV4-EV] Re: Looking for EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks
by William Korthof <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Shuntless in Roanoke
by "Mark E. Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: HOV Stickers Going Away in CA?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Motor sizing.
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Ev volks website
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Saturn SL-1 donor vehicle?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: HOV Stickers Going Away in CA?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Ev volks website,... An' Stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Shuntless in Roanoke (clueless in Reno)
by paul wiley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
by "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Ev volks website,... An' Stuff.
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Missed the enviormental part the first time through sorry about that. I am
just not a fan of mixing 2 system at the battery level (crap builds up on
the reg or housing and a dirty short develops between the pack and the bus)
or having a bunch of extra hot lines run around the car. (my set up will be
split half in the front half in the back so lots of extra wire.)
Like you said the fiber does not gain you much on the enviromental other
than you can fully pot the device and have the optics shine through the
potting. Heat is still located at the batter (bad some places good in MN
winter :P)
I agree with you RJ45 / RJ12 are not my favorite. There are some industrial
FR45 connectors grime proof but bulky. About the best automotive enviroment
connectors I have see are just that automotive connectors. I think digikey
caries them but have not looked for them in a long while.
Later,
Peter
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Central Battery clamper/regulator board
Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 13:54:52 -0700
Reposting with the subject line restored... Don't know where it went the
last time.
Sorry for any confusion,
Roger.
I wrote:
> Peter Shabino wrote:
>
> > Another way would be stay with one per battery then run a
> > fiber back to a main controller.
>
> > This way you can make a large receiver card (or chain
> > multiples) and not have to worry about HV near your low
> > voltage control circuits.
>
> There are certainly many ways to skin a cat ;^>
>
> I'm not sure I appreciate the benefit of this approach as it still
> results in the individual regs/clampers being located at the
> batteries,
> and so they would need to each be protected from the environment, and
> there would still be all the issues associated with getting rid of the
> heat they produce, etc.
>
> In this case, the fiber interconnecting them to a central controller
> would really just be performing the function of the (already isolated)
> REGBUS on Rudman Regs (for instance). Are there fiber
> cables/transmitters/receivers available now that are cost competitive
> with an opto or two at each end and a CAT5 patchcord, especially
> considering that the fiber network would presumably require a run of
> fiber from each battery to the main controller (star
> topology) while the
> REGBUS approach daisy chains the regs together?
>
> I'm not a big fan of the RJ connectors Rich uses for the REGBUS
> connections on his regs, but other than that one nit I think the daisy
> chain connection scheme is a pretty good approach.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This idea is for actual regulating and equalizing of a pack.
The board would have for example 25 clampers worth of copper on it.
Then the potential owner would add in the parts for the number of
batts they have. The max number of clampers would be equal to the
connector being used. So no other boards or hardware needed. A db25
board would have 26 potential clamper circuits. A db9 board would have
10 potential clamper circuits on it. Most folks don't have more than
26 batterys. Those that do can use more than one board.
Adding a communication area on the board to talk to anyones charger
would not be a big deal.
As for RJ connectors. A certain ACP Saturn has 12 years on the RJ
connectors located on each batt used to hook up 28 clampers. No issues
so far.
The motivation for this is that the Prius packs have 19 pairs of wires
already running neatly to a connector. Making a board that fits into
the factory Prius Battery ECU, to drop in every now and then for
equalizing the modules, would be easy. Don't know that I would spend
the money making one of these boards for every Pack.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> > When a fellow EV driver told me about his single point wiring
> > setup for his truck, it got me thinking.
>
> I am also a fan of the centralised mounting of regs/clampers, for the
> reasons you mention.
>
> The advantage of locating discrete regs at the batteries is that of
> modularity/scalability. If you have a single PCB that serves N
> batteries, it is inevitable that N will be the wrong number for almost
> every other EVer. Either I will have to pay for a PCB/system that is
> capable of far more batteries than I need, or I will need to buy some
> multiple of these PCBs to cover my pack, in the worst case having some
> number of fully utilised PCBs and one with just one battery connected to
> it.
>
> If you wanted to make a centralised system, I would suggest that a way
> to go might be a motherboard/daughterboard system so that the
> regs/clampers are still one battery per PCB, but each has an edge
> connector (or similar) allowing it to plug into a motherboard slot.
> Make the motherboards as inexpensive as possible and either available in
> different sizes or some reasonable intermediate size (8 slots? 10 slots?
> 16 slots) with the ability to daisy chain multiple motherboards for
> large systems (if there is actually any need for connections between
> reg/clampers such as REGBUS).
>
> The downside of this is that of the reliability issues associated with
> any sort of connector.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<SNIP>
Yes, All that will be left of the actual fiero frame what's shown in
that link (the cabin, and the areas that the body mounts to). This is
probably overly ambitious for my experience level, but what the hell.
Naa you just know how to have fun :P)
later,
Wire
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> The board would have for example 25 clampers worth of copper on it.
> Then the potential owner would add in the parts for the number of
> batts they have. The max number of clampers would be equal to the
> connector being used. So no other boards or hardware needed. A db25
> board would have 26 potential clamper circuits. A db9 board would have
> 10 potential clamper circuits on it.
I think you are off by at least a factor of 2. ;^>
Typically, the regs/clampers cannot share a common connection to a
remote battery since the IR drop in the wire when one reg/clamper is on
will skew the voltage sensed by the adjacent reg/clamper.
This means a minimum of one pair of wires from each battery is required,
so a DB9 can support 4 bats at most and a DB25 can support 12 bats.
With Rudman Regs, it is recommended to use a Kelvin connection for the
voltage sense when locating the regs remotely, so in theory 4 wires are
needed per battery, though one could probably get away with 7 per pair
of bats by sharing a sense wire to the common connection between them,
but either way a DB9 is down to 2 bats (7 or 8 wires) and a DB25 is down
to 6 bats.
> As for RJ connectors. A certain ACP Saturn has 12 years on the RJ
> connectors located on each batt used to hook up 28 clampers. No issues
> so far.
I'm afraid a sample of one won't change my opinion, it just suggests
that they can survive OK if the installation is clean and the operating
environment benign (and perhaps if expensive enough connectors are used
;^).
Also, RJ connectors might be usable for the comms link between regs, but
I'm pretty sure they won't support the currents required between the
regs and their bats in a remote installation. At least the DB
connectors seem to have voltage and current ratings adequate for this
(I've seen 500V & 1A for IDC type and 1000V & 5A for solder cup types,
though the solder cup type is limited to 20ga wire, which seems to
impose a lower current limit than the 5A that the pins can take).
> The motivation for this is that the Prius packs have 19 pairs of wires
> already running neatly to a connector. Making a board that fits into
> the factory Prius Battery ECU, to drop in every now and then for
> equalizing the modules, would be easy. Don't know that I would spend
> the money making one of these boards for every Pack.
Gotcha. Sounds like making a board to mate with whatever connector
Toyota used makes sense for you, and you might be able to recover your
setup costs if you can get extra boards made and sell them off to other
Evers. This might be an argument for making the boards use something
more standard than the Toyota connector (I'm guessing it isn't a common
one), so that others will be able to obtain connector pairs to interface
their PCB to their non-Toyota packs. You would then need to use an
adapter cable between the PCB and the Toyota connector, but that might
be an acceptable tradeoff if it allows you to sell off an extra 5 or 10
PCBs and recover your setup costs...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Shabino wrote:
> About the best automotive enviroment connectors I have
> see are just that automotive connectors. I think digikey
> caries them but have not looked for them in a long while.
I suspect you are thinking of the Weatherpack style connectors used, for
instance, by GM (a guess based on your Fiero donor ;^). Waytek Wire
<http://www.waytekwire.com/> carries these, for example:
<http://order.waytekwire.com/CGI-BIN/LANSAWEB?WEBEVENT+L0B61D75372E40900
00E9012+M37+ENG>
Canadian Electric Vehicles <http://www.canev.com> usually has them in
stock as well (I bought a bunch from Randy for my own EV).
These are great connectors, but one caveat is that the Weatherpack
connectors you buy from sources other than GM tend to be keyed
differently, so if you want a connector to mate with a connector on the
original vehicle harness either save the mating connector shell from the
engine, etc. side of the harness or plan to replace the vehicle side
connector shell with one that mates with your aftermarket connector. (I
ran into this with my Suzuki Forsa/Chevy Sprint conversion; the
aftermarket 4-pin Weatherpacks I bought are functionally identical to
those used on the original harness, but are keyed differently...
fortunately I had kept the engine loom and its connectors for reuse!).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
when it cam to me, it appeared to be from a member of this group. My Norton did
not identify it as a virus.
Regards,
Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have you tried this?
I'm not sure that pulling .5 amps per batt, or 1 amp per wire will
skew it enough to even be a consideration. Milliamps of loss creat
only millivolts of difference. Even 2 amps per wire would work. 22ga
or so would be fine. Could easily go heavier, but just not needed.
Shooting for a peak voltage of say 14.5v per batt. Or the user can
calibrate the clamper with the extra wiring in place. Running double
the wires makes my whole idea of a central clamper pcb a bad one in a
hurry.
It suggests RJ connectors are a decent solution. Especially after 12+
years. Then there are the other 2 dozen cars done the same way. Only 3
of which I have worked on and not seen a failure. Have you tried any
RJ connectors on your vehicles?
Mike
>
> I think you are off by at least a factor of 2. ;^>
>
> Typically, the regs/clampers cannot share a common connection to a
> remote battery since the IR drop in the wire when one reg/clamper is on
> will skew the voltage sensed by the adjacent reg/clamper.
>
> This means a minimum of one pair of wires from each battery is required,
> so a DB9 can support 4 bats at most and a DB25 can support 12 bats.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bruce. The Meltric Avcon powerpacks may be cheaper for a reason. I
have heard from a few knowledgeable sources that the EVI ICS200B Avcon
powerpacks are better quality, more reliable and durable than the Meltric
ones. So I am focusing on trying to get some used EVI units.
But since you raise this point, let me just ask the list for any additional
opinions on this issue of EVI ICS200B Avcon vs. Meltric Avcon, preferably
based on actual experience and usage. Have any of you actually consistently
used Meltric Avcon stations over a long period of time, either for powering
your conductively-charged EV or for powering your portablized SPI charger,
and can report on your experiences, favorably or otherwise, with these
Meltric Avcon powerpacks in the field?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "RAV4-EV list"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [RAV4-EV] Looking for EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks
Charles,
You should also consider getting an AVCON Power Pak http://www.avconev.com/
Though I don't know the current price, I believe a new Power Pak was around
$250, much cheaper than the EVI.
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [RAV4-EV] Looking for EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks
> I'm looking to buy used EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks in good working order
> together with wall mounts for them. If you have any of these that you'd
> be
> willing to sell me or know where I might be able to get some, please
> contact
> me off-list at: whalenc at bellsouth dot net.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charles Whalen
> Florida EAA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<snip>
regs and their bats in a remote installation. At least the DB
connectors seem to have voltage and current ratings adequate for this
(I've seen 500V & 1A for IDC type and 1000V & 5A for solder cup types,
though the solder cup type is limited to 20ga wire, which seems to
impose a lower current limit than the 5A that the pins can take).
<snip>
Take a look at the molex mini fit Jr line of connectors
http://dkc3.digikey.com/PDF/T062/0127.pdf I use quite a few of these in
designs at work. Come in both cable and board mount females (it has a female
body with a male pin) and the cables are male(with a female pin). They are
rated at 9A @ 250V (those numbers for the Dshell look way high. Those may be
maximum ratings not continous. (1A is reasonable for DB style but 500V is
scary. Ususaly max those out on designs around 60V circuit to circuit or
circuit to shell). + they have nylon between all pins on both halfs and
postive locking. They are not weather proof but neither are dshells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Except that the Tzero has not had a genset trailer towed behind it in
many many years. Every range test made is with onboard batterys only.
Lead acid or Lithium. That includes the Vegas and Mountain View runs
from San Dimas. So ultimately I'm looking for better batterys so I
don't need the intermediate step of hybrid technolgy at all.
> Ultimately we're
> looking for something similar the the tZero & it's gas trailer.
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anybody heard anything about CA not issuing any more HOV
stickers, as in - ever? Running out of allotted stickers, or some
deadline approaching?
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Shabino wrote:
> Take a look at the molex mini fit Jr line of connectors
> (those numbers for the Dshell look way high.
No argument from me; I wasn't advocating the use of the DB connectors,
just observing that they looked better suited for the job than RJs.
By the way, I believe the votlage rating on the Weatherpacks is also
relatively low, though I don't recall the exact value offhand.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well all be, All the fiero's I have seen use a transaxle, the final
drive is inside the tranny. I didn't realize you were gonna change that.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I played with this idea a little and thought if regs were using
something like a 13w3 connector on the back they could be slid into a
rack. Correspondingly their could be boards in the back side of a
central plane that were short, had the external load on it and a lot of
holes. A fan could ran air through this channel to cool the regs. If the
boards are loaded in sets of 4 horizontally then airflow would be
excellent. Removeable connectors on the front would make it easy to
swap them out.
IE
top view
--------------------------------------------------------
| F | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| A | load | load | load | load | ->
| N | load | load | load | load | ->
| | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
|= = = = ================================================
| U | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| - | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| C DAQ | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | <-air in thru filter
| o emeter| bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | <-
| n Health| bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | <-
| t | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | <
| r | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| o | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| l | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| l | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| e | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
| r | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb | bbbbbbbb |
to reg wires wires wires wires
bus to batteries
front view
-------------------------------------------------------
| stutas |===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|
| LEDs |===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|
| ooooooo |===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|
| ooooooo |===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|===o=o===|
-------------------------------------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
But I would want a 4 wire connection :-(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Piece of cake. Here is the centralized Zreg board layouts. Layout
depends on resistor + bulb or just resistor.
1 2 3 4 5
6 7 8 9
1 2 3 4 --> etc
O O O O
\ |\ |\ |
\ | \ | \ |
-- | -- | -- |
/\ | /\ | /\ |
| | | | | |
| O | O | O
O | O | O |
/ \/ / \/ / \/
\ -- \ -- \ --
/ | / | / |
\ | \ | \ |
O---O O---O O---O
1 2 3 4 --> etc
O O O O
\ / \ / \ /
| | | | | |
-- \/ -- \/ -- \/
/\ -- /\ -- /\ --
| | | | | |
| | | | | |
\/\/\/ \/\/\/ \/\/\/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Phillips wrote:
> Have you tried this?
Not personally, however, Rich and/or Joe have and they (the
designers/makers of the Rudman Reg) specifically advise against it
because they have seen the resulting Christmas Tree/chaser effect
whereby one reg trips and starts a cascade of other regs tripping
sequentially.
> I'm not sure that pulling .5 amps per batt, or 1 amp per wire will
> skew it enough to even be a consideration. Milliamps of loss creat
> only millivolts of difference.
It depends on the length and guage of wire between the reg and battery
and the amount of current the reg draws. Manzanita Micro recommends
sizing the wire for no more than 10mV of drop when connecting a reg
directly to the battery with a single pair of wires and no more than
100mV drop in the load connections when the 4-wire Kelvin sense
connection is used:
<http://www.manzanitamicro.com/mk%202%20regulator%20d3.doc>
Obviously if your regs bypass significantly less current than a Rudman
Reg, or if their priciple of operation is different then the cabling and
connector requirements will be different. If they bypass significantly
less than 2A they will have quite limited appeal to others not using
such small capacity cells.
> It suggests RJ connectors are a decent solution. Especially after 12+
> years. Then there are the other 2 dozen cars done the same way.
No, it only suggests that anything can be made to work if sufficient
care is taken and high enough quality parts are used. At the price of
ACP equipment, I expect they used higher quality components than a
typical hobbiest would and installed them more professionally than a
hobbiest would.
> Have you tried any RJ connectors on your vehicles?
Nope, and I will not. I've seen enough RJ connector failures in
non-automotive applications here in the Pacific NW to avoid them.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've used a number of Avcon Power packs. Given that they cost about over
80% less than the EVI boxes (how do you spell rip off?), I think the
Meltric approach of de-contenting this item was appropriate.
But yes, I've had failures on the meltric boxes...
-crimp connections overheated and failed
-contactor failed
-water got in one, but it was repairable
Mainly the use of automotive crimp-connectors caused overheated
connections around the contactor. This is fixable with careful assembly
of the Q/C connectors, use of higher quality Q/C connectors, or using
another more reliable wire termination on the contactors.
/wk
Charles Whalen wrote:
Thanks Bruce. The Meltric Avcon powerpacks may be cheaper for a reason. I
have heard from a few knowledgeable sources that the EVI ICS200B Avcon
powerpacks are better quality, more reliable and durable than the Meltric
ones. So I am focusing on trying to get some used EVI units.
But since you raise this point, let me just ask the list for any additional
opinions on this issue of EVI ICS200B Avcon vs. Meltric Avcon, preferably
based on actual experience and usage. Have any of you actually consistently
used Meltric Avcon stations over a long period of time, either for powering
your conductively-charged EV or for powering your portablized SPI charger,
and can report on your experiences, favorably or otherwise, with these
Meltric Avcon powerpacks in the field?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Tucker" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "RAV4-EV list"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: Re: [RAV4-EV] Looking for EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks
Charles,
You should also consider getting an AVCON Power Pak http://www.avconev.com/
Though I don't know the current price, I believe a new Power Pak was around
$250, much cheaper than the EVI.
Bruce
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "RAV4-EV list" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "EV Discussion List"
<ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, June 13, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: [RAV4-EV] Looking for EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks
I'm looking to buy used EVI ICS200B Avcon powerpacks in good working order
together with wall mounts for them. If you have any of these that you'd
be
willing to sell me or know where I might be able to get some, please
contact
me off-list at: whalenc at bellsouth dot net.
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
Florida EAA
_______________________________________________
RAV4-EV mailing list
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://five.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/rav4-ev
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Folk's,
I'm shuntless in Roanoke and increased my range bu 100 feet! My wife says
don't drive it off in one place. Anyway, I removed the toasty shunt for the
battery amps and the one for the motor amps.
The meter movement is 50mv for full scale (face made to 300A on meter front).
Cheap meters from Marlin Jones www.mpja.com . Theres a couple ways to
calibrate your meter to the battery cable. Number 2 wire that I'm using was
about 1.563 ^-4 or .1563 milli-ohms per foot or 1.07' needed for .167 milli
ohms for a 50mv drop at 300A. E=IxR so .167 milli-ohms x 300 = 50mv. So the
easiest way is to tap at a nearby lug a bit further at an easy location say at
2 feet and then put a 2-10 ohm resistor in series with the meter movement
calibrating it with a Fluke (or equiv) amp probe. I found this was needed
since I was off a bit (about 10%) in just calculating only due to junction
connections.
With a little effort, you too can be shuntless.
Have a Renewable Energy day,
Mark
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just "hearsay" (may have been the CalStart website)
that they were considering it, due to the number of
hybrids cramming the HOV lanes. But I don't recall any
specific bill up for debate...
--- Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Has anybody heard anything about CA not issuing any
> more HOV
> stickers, as in - ever? Running out of allotted
> stickers, or some
> deadline approaching?
>
> Mike Brown
> Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113
> Telephone 831-429-1989
> http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books *
> Videos * Since 1979
>
>
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you use a diff from a NISSAN 300zx or some other higher powered rear
wheel drive with independent rear (ford taurus) You can use the existing
fiero suspension and cradle because you can rigidly mount the diff and
adapt just the half shafts. This may be a lot easier than a solid rear
axle. Unless I miss-understood and you are wanting a chopped ford 9" for
dragging.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
HI All,
Is that ev volks website a joke? If someone was really offering such cars
for such cheap prices, wouldn't the text of the website be checked for
spelling mistakes first?
And claiming 70mph range on a Vee-dub with 70 mile range - thats a little
over the top don't you'all think?
Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but whats going on?
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My brother's Saturn has turned 312K, and won't pass a
smog in WA. I'd love to convert it, but my Civvy is
my EV, so the wife is ixnaying that idea.
SL-1 is a 4-dr. Needless to say, it's a 5-sp. It's
black; no probs with body; clutch has plenty of bite,
but an EVer will probably want to swap it out anyway.
He's at the point where he wants to drop it off to a
non-profit. Interior is faded, but otherwise good
condition. Dash-mat.
Location is Vancouver, WA. Contact me if you're
interested.
Other:
Door leak: could be free; re-setting door latch by a
glass place, or it could be $55.00 for a new gasket
from Saturn; easy to install.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-36267.html
Window not going up the last 1" or so is a worn-out
window regulator. $65 for a remanuf. one + 1-2 hrs.
time.
http://www.saturnfans.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-73445.html
removing door panel to access it, and
http://home.comcast.net/~David93SL2/regulator/ pulling
old/installing new.
2 new tires: $100 inc. mount/balance. Rotate front to
rear usually included at Les Schwab.
Linkage on wiper: (Driver's side works, but linkage
was broken when a branch fell on it, so passenger's
doesn't) $10 for part from a junkyard, but up to 30
mins. in time to remove the old one, and put the new
in, especially if they make you remove the junkyard
one by yourself.
http://www1.autozone.com/servlet/UiBroker?ForwardPage=/az/cds/en_us/0900823d/80/19/a5/ca/0900823d8019a5ca.jsp
Reverse lights: $3 in bulbs, + 10-20 mins. time.
Long crack on windshield: $554 (price can go up to
$100 higher, depending on the source of the glass.
All are DOT legal).
Converting a gen. 5 Honda Civic? My $20 video/DVD
has my '92 sedan, as well as a del Sol and hatch too!
Learn more at:
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Bath wrote:
Just "hearsay" (may have been the CalStart website)
that they were considering it, due to the number of
hybrids cramming the HOV lanes. But I don't recall any
specific bill up for debate...
As a sidenote: VA just announced they will not be giving out "Clean
fuels" plates (which allow HOV access) to new Priuses after July 1. On
my last trip to DC I would say 3 out of 4 cars in the HOV lanes were
single occupant Priuses. I wonder how this will effect the supply of
Priuses countrywide, I have heard rumors that as many as 2/3's of the
new Priuses were being sold in DC and CA, many to owners wanting the HOV
access.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Ev volks website
> HI All,
>
> Is that ev volks website a joke? If someone was really offering such cars
> for such cheap prices, wouldn't the text of the website be checked for
> spelling mistakes first?
>
> And claiming 70mph range on a Vee-dub with 70 mile range - thats a little
> over the top don't you'all think?
>
> Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but whats going on?
>
> Cheers
>
Hi Bob an' EVerybody;
I'd say the guy got a shitload ( Truck or RR car)of old surplus
generaters, CHEAP! And is capitalizing on the EV interest, since gas has
gone so high?Wilderness, EEE HAH! EV. He is out in the boonies, has the
website to prove it. Gees! We all were at his "Point" of technology, 30
years ago! We know better, nowadaze<g>! Real motors and controllers, yeah,
it costs like hell, but you get what you pay for.
A good thing from Newbees trying this is they will want to move up to the
good stuff. Hopefully the'll "Network", get on the List, live and learn. As
Friends don't let Friends; Work alone in some hidden garage somewhere in the
World( We've gone Global) re-inventing the Electric Car.Making silly
mistakes we did YEARS ago.OK, think about it; on the List we have this guy,
and Metric Mind, Victor's AC offerings, and EVerything in between.Something
we couldn't EVen dream of, say 30 years ago.Motors, made for us from
Warfield, same with chargers and controllers!
I would imagine it is a bit overwhelming to a guy that is interested in
EV's after emptying his wallet at the gas station?I see a lot of new faces
here. Great! That's why we are here. The " Where do I begin?" thing.
Been into this EV thing for over 30 years and seen a lot of shit, and
good stuff, flow under the bridge. Gees! I have seen more battery and
unrealistic range claims, in these times. If it seems too good to be true?
You're right. But by hanging here, getting out to the Races and other EVents
in your area. Look, ask questions, Grok on EV's. You will have fun and a
Good EV in your garage.Sorta aiming this ramble at the newbees in our mist.
Weeding out the chaff here, we DO have 120 mile range EV-1, well, we
DID, Rav-4's that survived turning in those ranges, today, the T Zero doing
increadable stuff, various other vehicles, too many to go into here. If it
wasn't for politics and Big Money we would ALL be able to buy EV's Ready
built, but unless we have a regime change we will have to cobble up our own.
Becides it is way cool to drive something you built. Although it is like
flying a WW1 plane compared to a modern jet, a conversion to a EV-1 or
Rav-4. None of us shade tree mechanics can even come close.But you CAN build
something that works, I did, drove it for 6 years. Worked for me.
My two cells worth
Seeya
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark--
Did I miss something about shunts? Is there some terrrible loss that occurs
when using the 300a-50mv shunt inline? I coulduse some extra range on the
ev-cycle!
paul
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Man I sick at ascii art. That took me a while to draw and it still
came out terrible! Although in the reply window, it's fine.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Mike Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Piece of cake. Here is the centralized Zreg board layouts. Layout
> depends on resistor + bulb or just resistor.
>
> 1 2 3 4 5
> 6 7 8 9
>
> 1 2 3 4 --> etc
> O O O O
> \ |\ |\ |
> \ | \ | \ |
> -- | -- | -- |
> /\ | /\ | /\ |
> | | | | | |
> | O | O | O
> O | O | O |
> / \/ / \/ / \/
> \ -- \ -- \ --
> / | / | / |
> \ | \ | \ |
> O---O O---O O---O
>
>
>
> 1 2 3 4 --> etc
> O O O O
> \ / \ / \ /
> | | | | | |
> -- \/ -- \/ -- \/
> /\ -- /\ -- /\ --
> | | | | | |
> | | | | | |
> \/\/\/ \/\/\/ \/\/\/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger,
Now I see where you're coming from. You seem to be thinking of Rudman
style regs duplicated on one central board. I'm not. This would be a
central pcb for the Zregs. So I'm talking about 500ma per reg. See I'm
not in this to recoup costs. I'm in this to make make my batterys last
longer. Anyone that wants to adapt it to their system has to modify it
accordingly.
So for clarity, in my original post I stated this idea was for Zregs
of 500ma capacity.
Although in the ACP Saturn, the Optima YT's (45ah) are being regulated
with just a 300ma system. It works. It works so well that when a new
battery was put in, it was brought into line with the other batts in
about 5 charge cycles. Maybe it takes longer than a 2+ amp
reg/clamper, but none the less it works great. So I think as long as a
pack of any particular size has regulation at all, that the
regs/clampers will succeed in leveling all the battery voltages.
Mike
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Mike Phillips wrote:
>
> > Have you tried this?
>
> Not personally, however, Rich and/or Joe have and they (the
> designers/makers of the Rudman Reg) specifically advise against it
> because they have seen the resulting Christmas Tree/chaser effect
> whereby one reg trips and starts a cascade of other regs tripping
> sequentially.
>
> > I'm not sure that pulling .5 amps per batt, or 1 amp per wire will
> > skew it enough to even be a consideration. Milliamps of loss creat
> > only millivolts of difference.
>
> It depends on the length and guage of wire between the reg and battery
> and the amount of current the reg draws. Manzanita Micro recommends
> sizing the wire for no more than 10mV of drop when connecting a reg
> directly to the battery with a single pair of wires and no more than
> 100mV drop in the load connections when the 4-wire Kelvin sense
> connection is used:
>
> <http://www.manzanitamicro.com/mk%202%20regulator%20d3.doc>
>
> Obviously if your regs bypass significantly less current than a Rudman
> Reg, or if their priciple of operation is different then the cabling and
> connector requirements will be different. If they bypass significantly
> less than 2A they will have quite limited appeal to others not using
> such small capacity cells.
>
> > It suggests RJ connectors are a decent solution. Especially after 12+
> > years. Then there are the other 2 dozen cars done the same way.
>
> No, it only suggests that anything can be made to work if sufficient
> care is taken and high enough quality parts are used. At the price of
> ACP equipment, I expect they used higher quality components than a
> typical hobbiest would and installed them more professionally than a
> hobbiest would.
>
> > Have you tried any RJ connectors on your vehicles?
>
> Nope, and I will not. I've seen enough RJ connector failures in
> non-automotive applications here in the Pacific NW to avoid them.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 09:08 AM 6/14/2006, you wrote:
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 14, 2006 7:54 AM
Subject: Ev volks website
> HI All,
>
> Is that ev volks website a joke? If someone was really offering such cars
> for such cheap prices, wouldn't the text of the website be checked for
> spelling mistakes first?
>
> And claiming 70mph range on a Vee-dub with 70 mile range - thats a little
> over the top don't you'all think?
>
> Sorry, don't mean to be rude, but whats going on?
>
> Cheers
>
Hi Bob an' EVerybody;
I'd say the guy got a shitload ( Truck or RR car)of old surplus
generaters, CHEAP! And is capitalizing on the EV interest, since gas has
gone so high?Wilderness, EEE HAH! EV. He is out in the boonies, has the
website to prove it. Gees! We all were at his "Point" of technology, 30
years ago! We know better, nowadaze<g>! Real motors and controllers, yeah,
it costs like hell, but you get what you pay for.
<< snip >>
My two cells worth
Seeya
Bob
Looks to me like he lifted the motor pic from the Surplus Centers web page
so I would guess that is were he is getting the motors.:)
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2006061408521419&item=6-936&catname=electric
They have 227 in stock at $179.50 each. :)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
