EV Digest 6885
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: What batteries to try next?
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Solar tonneau cover
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Dmitri" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Brandon Kruger" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Alan Brinkman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: EV achilles' heel
by john fisher <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV achilles' heel
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: How the Prius Works
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: New Zillch Controller
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: How the Prius Works
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by "Zeke Yewdall" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
have you ever tried cheap car batts?
lies are always possible but couldn't it be an interesting experiment to
try some of those car batts that claim 50Wh/kg?
they night have horrible losses at high power so it becomes moot but if
they don't it might be an interesting experience if they go further
I know german varta have some but I imagine similar products exist stateside
I looked at some 110Ah ones priced at around 160. weighing 25kg
Dan
Lee Hart wrote:
Well, my almost 10-year-old pack of 12v 95ah Concorde AGMs is ready
for retirement. Out of the original 12, only 9 are left. I just lost
#10 to an internal open). The low remaining pack voltage, coupled with
the remaining battery's already low amphour capacity, gives me too
little range to bother with them any more.
So... I'm wondering what kind of batteries to try next. More Concordes
at $340 each? Optima D31's at $270 or so each? Go back to flooded
(even they are around $160 each)? Maybe a cheap set of Sam's Club
specials for $60 each (they won't last long, but the price is low).
Many switch to an "exotic" battery? Thundersky lithiums (but where to
get good ones)? Nicads? Nimh?
I'm open to suggestions! :-)
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oooh. I hadn't thought about sequentially routing the 12 volts to
different batteries in the pack. Sounds like it might work.
But, I'm not aware of where you can get any of the DC-DC converters --
all the ones I've seen have been buck converters, not boost converters
that we need. Except for a few that boost it up to 3kV or so.... not
quite what we need :)
On 6/13/07, Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> standard panels are "24 volts" -- If we are looking at a 120 or 144
> volt battery pack, we need either least 5 or 6 of these "24 volt"
> panels to charge it directly.
Changing voltages is pretty easy. There are thousands of DC/DC
converters on the market that can do this. Basically, it's a switching
power supply that converts one DC voltage into another.
The quick-and-dirty approach is to wire your PV panels for 12v, use them
to power an el-cheapo 12v-to-120vac inverter, and use this 120vac to
power a cheap battery charger. But you'll be throwing about half your
precious PV power away due to these part's low efficiency and lack of
peak point tracking.
A better approach is to get proper PV peak point tracker that can charge
a 12v or 24v battery. Then use a set of relays or switches to route this
power sequentially to each battery or group of batteries in your pack
12v or 24v worth at a time). This approach has very high efficiency, and
is adaptable to any PV array voltage and pack voltage.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
More details on these please.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amy DeMaagd" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 4:13 PM
Subject: Teenager with EV's on the brain
3 phase AC motor, and lithium ion batteries
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FINALLY someone in the same boat as me. I'm 15, broke, and in
Indiana, hoping to convert my car as soon as money allows. I
understand how bad it sucks to be an EV enthusiast in the midwest when
all the EV action is on the east or west coast.
I'm curious about the lithium batteries you've acquired. Who
made them and what specs are they (voltage, Ah, etc.)?
As Dan suggested, it is best to start with a simple, cheap EV to
gain experience. I would suggest maybe 120V of lead-acid batteries, a
Curtis 1231 or 1221 controller, and a 6-8" DC motor. You can look at
EValbum at others' EVs to get ideas. http://austinev.com/evalbum I've
also made a website with various EV resources, including some pretty
sweet EV drag race clips. ;) http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
Good luck,
Brandon Kruger
http://bmk789.dyndns.org/ev/
http://cafepress.com/altfuel
On 6/13/07, Amy DeMaagd <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Okay, I've been interested in alternative fuel vehicles for some time
now, and would like to finally commit to building an EV. Despite being
17 and a girl, I am not a total moron. I grew up in a radical custom
car/hot rod restoration shop, and I do have the business on board, so
this is a thoroughly achievable goal, theoretically . Seeing as how I
lack funding, I figured that there were three possible paths to take:
meth lab, prostitution, or a school team. Now, I realize that the
school team suggestion sounds absurd, but it's not about getting money
from the school, it's about getting credibility from being backed by a
community organization, so that people will believe they are
sponsoring something, rather than just giving things to some hack
group of teenagers. Anyways, I need to pitch this idea to my school,
and was wondering if any of you had any resources for that, existing
proposals, etc.
Also, seeing as how the Tour De Sol is now defunct, and the EV
Challenge folks seem to have considerately dropped off the face of the
planet(I guess I shouldn't have expected much from them anyways, I am
from Michigan, which is decidedly north of south.), are there any EV
competitions around? The school would want to have more than an EV
putting around town, they'd want some people to see it, they'd want
some prestige. After all, the majority of the population of this town
does happen to be cows, and I don't think they'd be too impressed,
considering that they do some significant air pollution of their own.
Without even having official backing from the school, we've managed to
get a free MG Midget from an auto auction place, plus a 3 phase AC
motor, and lithium ion batteries(scary, but exciting).
Ahem, I do expect to need plenty of help in the future.
I hope I'm not too obnoxious, and really look forward to getting some input.
Thank you!
--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Amy,
You found the right place for advice on an EV. Look at the EV Album and
search under MG and there are several Midgets. Look at the components
that they use, and the performance, and think about what you would like
to do. What would it take to get the Midget running safely? Can these
parts be later upgraded for more performance?
The MG by Jack Gretta looks good http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/19
George Tylinski has put together a MG for performance looking at his
list of parts http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/67
You'll get a lot of advice, and I'll jump in here with a thought, and
likely others may think another direction is best.
1. If the MG runs, now is the time to get the brakes, suspension, etc.
etc. repaired and ready to go.
2. If you are worried about registering an EV, get it registered as a
gas vehicle first.
3. Think about selling the AC motor and look for a used (or new) DC
motor and a Curtis controller. The controller can be upgraded later.
4. The lithium ion batteries, are there enough for an EV project? Lead
acid batteries are the economical way to go, but if you have access to
something lighter and with more power, you are set for some performance.
5. Search the internet for High School EV competitions. Look for an
advisor at your school that could work with you on advise, safety,
SAFETY, and construction.
6. See if your advisor will go for some fundraisers, ask for sponsors,
etc.
My son has done some fundraising, and has learned a lot. He has mowed a
lot of yards, cleaned yards, washed cars, and sold Domino's discount
cards. The Domino's cards generated $$$.
Good luck!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Amy DeMaagd
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Teenager with EV's on the brain
Okay, I've been interested in alternative fuel vehicles for some time
now, and would like to finally commit to building an EV. Despite being
17 and a girl, I am not a total moron. I grew up in a radical custom
car/hot rod restoration shop, and I do have the business on board, so
this is a thoroughly achievable goal, theoretically . Seeing as how I
lack funding, I figured that there were three possible paths to take:
meth lab, prostitution, or a school team. Now, I realize that the
school team suggestion sounds absurd, but it's not about getting money
from the school, it's about getting credibility from being backed by a
community organization, so that people will believe they are
sponsoring something, rather than just giving things to some hack
group of teenagers. Anyways, I need to pitch this idea to my school,
and was wondering if any of you had any resources for that, existing
proposals, etc.
Also, seeing as how the Tour De Sol is now defunct, and the EV
Challenge folks seem to have considerately dropped off the face of the
planet(I guess I shouldn't have expected much from them anyways, I am
from Michigan, which is decidedly north of south.), are there any EV
competitions around? The school would want to have more than an EV
putting around town, they'd want some people to see it, they'd want
some prestige. After all, the majority of the population of this town
does happen to be cows, and I don't think they'd be too impressed,
considering that they do some significant air pollution of their own.
Without even having official backing from the school, we've managed to
get a free MG Midget from an auto auction place, plus a 3 phase AC
motor, and lithium ion batteries(scary, but exciting).
Ahem, I do expect to need plenty of help in the future.
I hope I'm not too obnoxious, and really look forward to getting some
input.
Thank you!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Maybe you can think of it this way:
the genset is a supplier of Kw just like a battery.
They typically run for a few hours on the standard tank, or 20+ on propane.
If a 200 lb genset produces a steady 4Kw for 6 hours, and costs about $1000, what kind of batteries can you get for that
weight/cost?
In my case, I am thinking many days I'd use no genset at all, but sometimes it would be a range extender or even a
limp-home device.
They do use a shocking amount of fuel for their power rating - even the diesels. The marine ones seem to be much better,
but they are too heavy and expensive. A transplanted motor might do much better on fuel, possibly a good scooter engine
would do. That theory remains to be tested.
John
Marty Hewes wrote:
In order to minimize weight, I'd go the other way around. How many kWh
will I come up short in making the journey without a generator. How
much time should it take to complete the trip. How big of a generator
do I need to make up the difference in kWh in that time?
If you try to size the generator to run the car after the battery is
down, it's a whole lot bigger and heavier than if you just use it to
supply part of the power required the whole way, reduce the draw on the
batteries (which makes them more efficient), and delay the point where
the battery is kaput to the time you arrive back home.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome Amy. Lots of info on EV's on this forum.
On the getting the school involved thing..... I unsucessfully tried
to make an electric car in college, and successfully won a national
solar house competition in grad school. My thoughts.
You need to get the support of some teachers or administrators at
school. Having a competition to go for can help with this, but can't
do it all. We wanted to enter the future-car competition back in1998
or so, and couldn't get a single engineering professor to back us up
-- so we didn't get anywhere. Then we tried just getting someone to
give us money to make an electric car, and that didn't work, because,
as you already said, who wants to give money to a bunch of kids...
For the solar house competition, we got the strong buy-in of the chair
of the department at the very beginning, and he navigated the rest of
the university bureaucracy.
I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
you to succeed". If you can get some teachers or people who have
power on board (face it, students don't have much power in the
system... :( then they can help you do what you want. Don't have
any specific ideas, but that's the general idea. Good luck
What year MG? Those are awfully cute cars, I think. It would make a nice EV.
Zeke
On 6/13/07, Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Amy,
You found the right place for advice on an EV. Look at the EV Album and
search under MG and there are several Midgets. Look at the components
that they use, and the performance, and think about what you would like
to do. What would it take to get the Midget running safely? Can these
parts be later upgraded for more performance?
The MG by Jack Gretta looks good http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/19
George Tylinski has put together a MG for performance looking at his
list of parts http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/67
You'll get a lot of advice, and I'll jump in here with a thought, and
likely others may think another direction is best.
1. If the MG runs, now is the time to get the brakes, suspension, etc.
etc. repaired and ready to go.
2. If you are worried about registering an EV, get it registered as a
gas vehicle first.
3. Think about selling the AC motor and look for a used (or new) DC
motor and a Curtis controller. The controller can be upgraded later.
4. The lithium ion batteries, are there enough for an EV project? Lead
acid batteries are the economical way to go, but if you have access to
something lighter and with more power, you are set for some performance.
5. Search the internet for High School EV competitions. Look for an
advisor at your school that could work with you on advise, safety,
SAFETY, and construction.
6. See if your advisor will go for some fundraisers, ask for sponsors,
etc.
My son has done some fundraising, and has learned a lot. He has mowed a
lot of yards, cleaned yards, washed cars, and sold Domino's discount
cards. The Domino's cards generated $$$.
Good luck!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Amy DeMaagd
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:14 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Teenager with EV's on the brain
Okay, I've been interested in alternative fuel vehicles for some time
now, and would like to finally commit to building an EV. Despite being
17 and a girl, I am not a total moron. I grew up in a radical custom
car/hot rod restoration shop, and I do have the business on board, so
this is a thoroughly achievable goal, theoretically . Seeing as how I
lack funding, I figured that there were three possible paths to take:
meth lab, prostitution, or a school team. Now, I realize that the
school team suggestion sounds absurd, but it's not about getting money
from the school, it's about getting credibility from being backed by a
community organization, so that people will believe they are
sponsoring something, rather than just giving things to some hack
group of teenagers. Anyways, I need to pitch this idea to my school,
and was wondering if any of you had any resources for that, existing
proposals, etc.
Also, seeing as how the Tour De Sol is now defunct, and the EV
Challenge folks seem to have considerately dropped off the face of the
planet(I guess I shouldn't have expected much from them anyways, I am
from Michigan, which is decidedly north of south.), are there any EV
competitions around? The school would want to have more than an EV
putting around town, they'd want some people to see it, they'd want
some prestige. After all, the majority of the population of this town
does happen to be cows, and I don't think they'd be too impressed,
considering that they do some significant air pollution of their own.
Without even having official backing from the school, we've managed to
get a free MG Midget from an auto auction place, plus a 3 phase AC
motor, and lithium ion batteries(scary, but exciting).
Ahem, I do expect to need plenty of help in the future.
I hope I'm not too obnoxious, and really look forward to getting some
input.
Thank you!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, and don't let anybody tell you that girls can work on cars. My
roommate a few years ago swapped the engine in her toyota truck
herself. Much to the consternation of her boyfriend who was a
mechanical engineer, but didn't really have the aptitude for building
things that she did.
Z
On 6/13/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Welcome Amy. Lots of info on EV's on this forum.
On the getting the school involved thing..... I unsucessfully tried
to make an electric car in college, and successfully won a national
solar house competition in grad school. My thoughts.
You need to get the support of some teachers or administrators at
school. Having a competition to go for can help with this, but can't
do it all. We wanted to enter the future-car competition back in1998
or so, and couldn't get a single engineering professor to back us up
-- so we didn't get anywhere. Then we tried just getting someone to
give us money to make an electric car, and that didn't work, because,
as you already said, who wants to give money to a bunch of kids...
For the solar house competition, we got the strong buy-in of the chair
of the department at the very beginning, and he navigated the rest of
the university bureaucracy.
I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
you to succeed". If you can get some teachers or people who have
power on board (face it, students don't have much power in the
system... :( then they can help you do what you want. Don't have
any specific ideas, but that's the general idea. Good luck
What year MG? Those are awfully cute cars, I think. It would make a nice EV.
Zeke
On 6/13/07, Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Amy,
>
> You found the right place for advice on an EV. Look at the EV Album and
> search under MG and there are several Midgets. Look at the components
> that they use, and the performance, and think about what you would like
> to do. What would it take to get the Midget running safely? Can these
> parts be later upgraded for more performance?
>
> The MG by Jack Gretta looks good http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/19
> George Tylinski has put together a MG for performance looking at his
> list of parts http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/67
>
> You'll get a lot of advice, and I'll jump in here with a thought, and
> likely others may think another direction is best.
>
> 1. If the MG runs, now is the time to get the brakes, suspension, etc.
> etc. repaired and ready to go.
> 2. If you are worried about registering an EV, get it registered as a
> gas vehicle first.
> 3. Think about selling the AC motor and look for a used (or new) DC
> motor and a Curtis controller. The controller can be upgraded later.
> 4. The lithium ion batteries, are there enough for an EV project? Lead
> acid batteries are the economical way to go, but if you have access to
> something lighter and with more power, you are set for some performance.
> 5. Search the internet for High School EV competitions. Look for an
> advisor at your school that could work with you on advise, safety,
> SAFETY, and construction.
> 6. See if your advisor will go for some fundraisers, ask for sponsors,
> etc.
>
> My son has done some fundraising, and has learned a lot. He has mowed a
> lot of yards, cleaned yards, washed cars, and sold Domino's discount
> cards. The Domino's cards generated $$$.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Amy DeMaagd
> Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:14 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Teenager with EV's on the brain
>
> Okay, I've been interested in alternative fuel vehicles for some time
> now, and would like to finally commit to building an EV. Despite being
> 17 and a girl, I am not a total moron. I grew up in a radical custom
> car/hot rod restoration shop, and I do have the business on board, so
> this is a thoroughly achievable goal, theoretically . Seeing as how I
> lack funding, I figured that there were three possible paths to take:
> meth lab, prostitution, or a school team. Now, I realize that the
> school team suggestion sounds absurd, but it's not about getting money
> from the school, it's about getting credibility from being backed by a
> community organization, so that people will believe they are
> sponsoring something, rather than just giving things to some hack
> group of teenagers. Anyways, I need to pitch this idea to my school,
> and was wondering if any of you had any resources for that, existing
> proposals, etc.
>
> Also, seeing as how the Tour De Sol is now defunct, and the EV
> Challenge folks seem to have considerately dropped off the face of the
> planet(I guess I shouldn't have expected much from them anyways, I am
> from Michigan, which is decidedly north of south.), are there any EV
> competitions around? The school would want to have more than an EV
> putting around town, they'd want some people to see it, they'd want
> some prestige. After all, the majority of the population of this town
> does happen to be cows, and I don't think they'd be too impressed,
> considering that they do some significant air pollution of their own.
>
> Without even having official backing from the school, we've managed to
> get a free MG Midget from an auto auction place, plus a 3 phase AC
> motor, and lithium ion batteries(scary, but exciting).
> Ahem, I do expect to need plenty of help in the future.
>
> I hope I'm not too obnoxious, and really look forward to getting some
> input.
> Thank you!
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
fixed typo that drastically changes meaning.... :)
Oh, and don't let anybody tell you that girls can't work on cars. My
roommate a few years ago swapped the engine in her toyota truck
herself. Much to the consternation of her boyfriend who was a
mechanical engineer, but didn't really have the aptitude for building
things that she did.
Z
On 6/13/07, Zeke Yewdall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Welcome Amy. Lots of info on EV's on this forum.
>
> On the getting the school involved thing..... I unsucessfully tried
> to make an electric car in college, and successfully won a national
> solar house competition in grad school. My thoughts.
>
> You need to get the support of some teachers or administrators at
> school. Having a competition to go for can help with this, but can't
> do it all. We wanted to enter the future-car competition back in1998
> or so, and couldn't get a single engineering professor to back us up
> -- so we didn't get anywhere. Then we tried just getting someone to
> give us money to make an electric car, and that didn't work, because,
> as you already said, who wants to give money to a bunch of kids...
> For the solar house competition, we got the strong buy-in of the chair
> of the department at the very beginning, and he navigated the rest of
> the university bureaucracy.
>
> I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
> because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
> you to succeed". If you can get some teachers or people who have
> power on board (face it, students don't have much power in the
> system... :( then they can help you do what you want. Don't have
> any specific ideas, but that's the general idea. Good luck
>
> What year MG? Those are awfully cute cars, I think. It would make a nice EV.
>
> Zeke
>
> On 6/13/07, Alan Brinkman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Amy,
> >
> > You found the right place for advice on an EV. Look at the EV Album and
> > search under MG and there are several Midgets. Look at the components
> > that they use, and the performance, and think about what you would like
> > to do. What would it take to get the Midget running safely? Can these
> > parts be later upgraded for more performance?
> >
> > The MG by Jack Gretta looks good http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/19
> > George Tylinski has put together a MG for performance looking at his
> > list of parts http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/67
> >
> > You'll get a lot of advice, and I'll jump in here with a thought, and
> > likely others may think another direction is best.
> >
> > 1. If the MG runs, now is the time to get the brakes, suspension, etc.
> > etc. repaired and ready to go.
> > 2. If you are worried about registering an EV, get it registered as a
> > gas vehicle first.
> > 3. Think about selling the AC motor and look for a used (or new) DC
> > motor and a Curtis controller. The controller can be upgraded later.
> > 4. The lithium ion batteries, are there enough for an EV project? Lead
> > acid batteries are the economical way to go, but if you have access to
> > something lighter and with more power, you are set for some performance.
> > 5. Search the internet for High School EV competitions. Look for an
> > advisor at your school that could work with you on advise, safety,
> > SAFETY, and construction.
> > 6. See if your advisor will go for some fundraisers, ask for sponsors,
> > etc.
> >
> > My son has done some fundraising, and has learned a lot. He has mowed a
> > lot of yards, cleaned yards, washed cars, and sold Domino's discount
> > cards. The Domino's cards generated $$$.
> >
> > Good luck!
> >
> > Alan
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Amy DeMaagd
> > Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:14 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Teenager with EV's on the brain
> >
> > Okay, I've been interested in alternative fuel vehicles for some time
> > now, and would like to finally commit to building an EV. Despite being
> > 17 and a girl, I am not a total moron. I grew up in a radical custom
> > car/hot rod restoration shop, and I do have the business on board, so
> > this is a thoroughly achievable goal, theoretically . Seeing as how I
> > lack funding, I figured that there were three possible paths to take:
> > meth lab, prostitution, or a school team. Now, I realize that the
> > school team suggestion sounds absurd, but it's not about getting money
> > from the school, it's about getting credibility from being backed by a
> > community organization, so that people will believe they are
> > sponsoring something, rather than just giving things to some hack
> > group of teenagers. Anyways, I need to pitch this idea to my school,
> > and was wondering if any of you had any resources for that, existing
> > proposals, etc.
> >
> > Also, seeing as how the Tour De Sol is now defunct, and the EV
> > Challenge folks seem to have considerately dropped off the face of the
> > planet(I guess I shouldn't have expected much from them anyways, I am
> > from Michigan, which is decidedly north of south.), are there any EV
> > competitions around? The school would want to have more than an EV
> > putting around town, they'd want some people to see it, they'd want
> > some prestige. After all, the majority of the population of this town
> > does happen to be cows, and I don't think they'd be too impressed,
> > considering that they do some significant air pollution of their own.
> >
> > Without even having official backing from the school, we've managed to
> > get a free MG Midget from an auto auction place, plus a 3 phase AC
> > motor, and lithium ion batteries(scary, but exciting).
> > Ahem, I do expect to need plenty of help in the future.
> >
> > I hope I'm not too obnoxious, and really look forward to getting some
> > input.
> > Thank you!
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree that a transplant might do better. simple facts like their
normal power rating and ac gen efficiency around 80-90% there is little
room for escape of the energy in my book. you would have to match the
two somewhat of course but still.
wouldnt you agree though that the few ekstra kilograms for a genset
capable of sustained driving is well worth it compared to limping?
there is a big difference having an 'EV' where you can drive any
distance comfortably
Dan
john fisher wrote:
Maybe you can think of it this way:
the genset is a supplier of Kw just like a battery.
They typically run for a few hours on the standard tank, or 20+ on
propane.
If a 200 lb genset produces a steady 4Kw for 6 hours, and costs about
$1000, what kind of batteries can you get for that weight/cost?
In my case, I am thinking many days I'd use no genset at all, but
sometimes it would be a range extender or even a limp-home device.
They do use a shocking amount of fuel for their power rating - even
the diesels. The marine ones seem to be much better, but they are too
heavy and expensive. A transplanted motor might do much better on
fuel, possibly a good scooter engine would do. That theory remains to
be tested.
John
Marty Hewes wrote:
In order to minimize weight, I'd go the other way around. How many
kWh will I come up short in making the journey without a generator.
How much time should it take to complete the trip. How big of a
generator do I need to make up the difference in kWh in that time?
If you try to size the generator to run the car after the battery is
down, it's a whole lot bigger and heavier than if you just use it to
supply part of the power required the whole way, reduce the draw on
the batteries (which makes them more efficient), and delay the point
where the battery is kaput to the time you arrive back home.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't like that saying at all. that's a quite sheepish mentality, but
widespread in the 'scientific' community
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
you to succeed".
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No, it has a mechanical CVT transmission in there. Gears and all. The
Prius is a parallel hybrid, if the wiring between a generator and motor
were the only link from engine to wheels then it'd be a series hybrid.
It's interesting to note that the engineers spent an awful lot of design
time, expense and weight to make a CVT tranny rather than add a separate
motor from the generator so they can run at different speeds. Either
the losses are simply too high or the second motor is more expensive
than the tranny.
The earlier generations of Prius used an electric motor that could not
produce great acceleration or top speed without the engine. In 2003 the
hatchback had a 50KW motor instead of the earlier 30KW and 33KW ones.
Danny
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
(-Phil-) wrote:
Just to clarify, the Prius doesn't have a separate CVT. The CVT *is*
the motor/generators!
By shuffling power between the 2 motor/gens you effectively have a
CVT. It's a totally ingenious system!
aside from the fact that the end result is an expensive ICE car and
not an EV. it's effectively an electric clutch. the design will not
survive and should never have been. if one was conspiratorially
inclined (and one is) one might be suspicious that they intentionally
chose a bad design because it could give the illusion of being
environmentally friendly while still remaining a pure ICE car.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For once I actually agree with your analysis of the words Dan. The reason you
do succeed is because you want to.
Amy, if you really want to do this you will be able to make it happen as many
of us on this list can attest.
Also you don't have to go the EVents on the Least or Left coasts to show off
your wares. You can find an NHRA track near you and take your car there to
race and show off. I've found its hard to sell a sponsor on the concept, but
once you get it going and show them what it can do, you'll have a lot of
interest in people wanting to be involved. The main thing as has been
previously mentioned is to get an EV going. Thats half the fun, the other half
is showing it off. You'll get a real sense of accomplishment just being able
to drive it down the road. And it'll be because you wanted to do it, not
because someone else wanted you too.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I don't like that saying at all. that's a quite sheepish mentality,
> but
> widespread in the 'scientific' community
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
> > because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
> > you to succeed".
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
God! I am still laughing!!!
Dad would love to not have to bend #6 gage wire around the insides of a
PFC40...
Smaller wire.... Yea Right... I caught a PFC40 sucking 62 Amps of 240 this
last week.
I can now make as many amps with a small form factor(PFC20 Case) than I can
with the PFC50 large case charger..
No You can't do that with shimpy parts and cheap circuit boards and tiny
windings...
There are real reasons why the PFC chargers and the Zilla cost t fortune to
make. It's called expensive parts and hard produce machining and assembly
procedures. Otmar spends quite a bit of time tuning up the Zillas.. and
charges for it.
And both of us have found that cloning our skill sets on new employees is
harder than actually making the product.
Madman...
NO I am not shipping 50 amp chargers in a 20 amp cases.. I don't want to
warrenty that power level!!.....yet.
I have yet to find the limits to the REV 8 power board...Cooling settles at
about 44.5 amps on an thermal soak test. The Hybrid tune 40HM are really
close to 50 amp input and 40 amp output mchines.. But I have tune up control
over them... The customer does not.
Oh that's 44.5 amps of 224 VAC ..or a Tad shy of 10,000 watts.
Even at this level... I Crave the Hybrid Plus's direct connection to 1200
A123 Cells.
We are yeilding about 88 miles per Gallon with a 10Kw support of the Hybrid
pack...
Hybrid plus is getting well over 100 miles per gallon... because they don't
pump the power through a DC to DC converter... And A123s don't sag much with
a 150 amp load on them...
Asking for 150 amps from a 16 cell wide Stack of A123s.. is asking each Cell
for about 10 amps.....Yawwnn!
You don't want to know how abusive asking for 10Kw from a pack 24 18
amphour Agms is...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 3:37 AM
Subject: New Zillch Controller
> I'm new to EVs. My name is Dan Crankenstein.
>
> EV controllers are too expensive. So I have a plan to make a new
> controller called the "Zillch". It's called the "Zillch" because it
> won't cost that much to make.
>
> I can make them cheaper but I need your help. If you have a Zilla
> controller can you crack it open and take some pictures of it for me?
> I'm too cheap to buy one myself. On Otmar's blog he says he's paying
> $20,000 for transistors. Now hold on there, that's way too much. I
> can get a whole bunch of them for $20.00 at Radio Shack. I think I
> have enough Radio Shack points accumulated now for a $5.00 coupon
> this month.
>
> My new "Zillch" controller won't have a "Hairball." First of all, it
> sounds like something the cat coughed up. And having a hairball is
> like having a transmission in an EV - you don't need one. So my
> controller won't have this "hairball" thing. That will make it
> cheaper. The Curtis controller didn't have a "Hairball". My nephew's
> Power Wheels doesn't have a hairball.
>
> So that's the plan for the new "Zillch" controller.
>
> Also, I left a message on Rich Rudman's voicemail and offered him my
> advice on chargers but he won't call back. So if anyone has a PFC
> charger I need you to open those up and take some pictures for me.
> PFC sounds "Pretty Fricken Complex" so I'm naming my charger "PFA"
> for "Pretty Fricken Affordable." And my charger will be smaller and
> will use smaller wiring to make it lighter.
>
> Who's with me? Just send your photos to [EMAIL PROTECTED] We'll
> worry about the "Intellectual Property Rights" thing -whatever that
> means - later on. Right now the most intellectual thing to do is make
> cheap EV parts.
>
> And with my new EV parts I'll throw in a free fire extinguisher. I
> bet Otmar and Rich won't offer those for free.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't say it was a series hybrid. I said it was essentially an
electric clutch. isn't it?
I don't think the prius arrangement could be cheaper than a series
layout. I would be interested in hearing the design justification but
doubt it would satisfy
Dan
Danny Miller skrev:
No, it has a mechanical CVT transmission in there. Gears and all.
The Prius is a parallel hybrid, if the wiring between a generator and
motor were the only link from engine to wheels then it'd be a series
hybrid.
It's interesting to note that the engineers spent an awful lot of
design time, expense and weight to make a CVT tranny rather than add a
separate motor from the generator so they can run at different
speeds. Either the losses are simply too high or the second motor is
more expensive than the tranny.
The earlier generations of Prius used an electric motor that could not
produce great acceleration or top speed without the engine. In 2003
the hatchback had a 50KW motor instead of the earlier 30KW and 33KW ones.
Danny
Dan Frederiksen wrote:
(-Phil-) wrote:
Just to clarify, the Prius doesn't have a separate CVT. The CVT
*is* the motor/generators!
By shuffling power between the 2 motor/gens you effectively have a
CVT. It's a totally ingenious system!
aside from the fact that the end result is an expensive ICE car and
not an EV. it's effectively an electric clutch. the design will not
survive and should never have been. if one was conspiratorially
inclined (and one is) one might be suspicious that they intentionally
chose a bad design because it could give the illusion of being
environmentally friendly while still remaining a pure ICE car.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think you understood what he meant. If getting other people
involved isn't important, then why do you say this " I've found its
hard to sell a sponsor on the concept, but once you get it going and
show them what it can do, you'll have a lot of interest in people
wanting to be involved" ?
Yes, you have to want to succeed yourself too, but to go it alone is
sort of stupid, in my mind.
On 6/13/07, MIKE WILLMON <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
For once I actually agree with your analysis of the words Dan. The reason you
do succeed is because you want to.
Amy, if you really want to do this you will be able to make it happen as many
of us on this list can attest.
Also you don't have to go the EVents on the Least or Left coasts to show off
your wares. You can find an NHRA track near you and take your car there to
race and show off. c` The main thing as has been previously mentioned is to
get an EV going. Thats half the fun, the other half is showing it off. You'll
get a real sense of accomplishment just being able to drive it down the road.
And it'll be because you wanted to do it, not because someone else wanted you
too.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> I don't like that saying at all. that's a quite sheepish mentality,
> but
> widespread in the 'scientific' community
>
> Zeke Yewdall wrote:
> > I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
> > because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
> > you to succeed".
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For once you are actually right too
MIKE WILLMON skrev:
For once I actually agree with your analysis of the words Dan. The reason you do succeed is because you want to.
Amy, if you really want to do this you will be able to make it happen as many
of us on this list can attest.
Also you don't have to go the EVents on the Least or Left coasts to show off
your wares. You can find an NHRA track near you and take your car there to
race and show off. I've found its hard to sell a sponsor on the concept, but
once you get it going and show them what it can do, you'll have a lot of
interest in people wanting to be involved. The main thing as has been
previously mentioned is to get an EV going. Thats half the fun, the other half
is showing it off. You'll get a real sense of accomplishment just being able
to drive it down the road. And it'll be because you wanted to do it, not
because someone else wanted you too.
Mike,
Anchorage, Ak.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 1:21 pm
Subject: Re: Teenager with EV's on the brain
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
I don't like that saying at all. that's a quite sheepish mentality,
but
widespread in the 'scientific' community
Zeke Yewdall wrote:
I am reminded of a quote from a mentor of mine. "You don't succeed
because you want to succeed. You succeed because other people want
you to succeed".
--- End Message ---
