EV Digest 7090
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: AGM battery emissions
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
by "Bukosky, Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
by "TrotFox Greyfoot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters - AC motors
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
by Jeff Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Tweety went swimming!
by "Richard Acuti" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Curtis controller voltage questions [was Re: Re: Could higher
pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?]
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Tweety went swimming!!
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: EV Drag Video on Associate Press website
by "ROBERT GOUDREAU" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
by "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) AC forklift motor info
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Electric car vies for speed record (500 kph)
by Colin Frame <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Electric car vies for speed record (500 kph)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
19) Truncated messages (Primer and distillation by an observer)
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Electric car vies for speed record (500 kph)
by Dan Frederiksen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electric car vies for speed record (500 kph)
by "Timothy Balcer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
by "Phil Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Freidberg wrote:
> Was it more of a tangy or rotten egg smell?
A bit of both, I suppose, but definitely a distinct sulfur (rotten egg)
smell.
> > You have the chargers mounted where you can verify
> > that each and every one has finished sucessfully
> > before you drive away? Have you verified
> > the outputs to confirm that each one is bringing its
> > battery to the required voltage?
>
> Yes to both of these, and a Paktrakr has been onboard
> since May so the individual battery voltages are
> viewable in real-time.
Great. (Perhaps you can tell us more about life with the PakTrakr in a
different thread? I've just got a couple in to play with and will be
evaluating it against my HP3497A data acquisition unit to see just how
accurate the PakTrakr is from channel to channel.)
> When I was installing one of the newer replacements, I
> noticed it was stinky just handling it. That was prior
> to any charge, discharge, or connection to the pack.
> This makes me think that the so-called "sealing
> valves" in these batteries are really nothing of the
> sort. They are simply leaky.
Brings new meaning to the expression 'to have gotten a few stinkers'!
;^>
I doubt this has to do with sealing of the valves. I've received 100Ah
AGMs from a customer for testing, and several were damaged in shipping
such that the posts were just about broken right off and the post seals
damaged. I cycled a pair of these damaged batteries while awaiting
replacements and there was no noticable odour during charge or discharge
despite the fact that they were venting noticably around the posts where
the seals were compromised.
> With subsequent trips, other old batts have become the
> weak ones. When they've tumbled below 9.5 volts after
> too few miles on a trip, they've been replaced.
9.5V is kind of low; ordinarily 10.5V under load is considered 100%DOD.
If less than 9.5V after "too few miles" is grounds for replacement, what
are the "good" batteries holding under the same conditions?
> Plus, 1 Deka Dominator 8G31 gel was installed late
> last week. Simply to see if it would be less stinky.
> So far it seems the gel might be less stinky (or not
> stinky at all) then the AGMs.
I've got some experience with the 8G31's and can say with some
confidence that they should not smell at all; not when new, not when
driving, and not when charging.
> So that makes for a total of 12 batts. Six are
> upright, six on their sides.
Have you noticed any trend either with the stinkers or weaklings tending
to be more likely to occur in the upright or laid down sets?
Of the ones on their sides, have you noticed any dampness/droplets
anywhere near the terminals or vents, or generally anywhere near the top
of the battery case, or the seam where the case top is joined to the
rest of the case (if applicable to your battery construction)?
> > Do you have any idea how many Ah you typically
> > remove from the batteries between charges?
>
> No, I could only estimate from how much is pulled from
> the wall during charging. No ah or wh meter onboard
> yet.
What are you waiting for? The 600A hall effect sensor for the PakTrakr
is only $50 (and it's a cute little guy, too ;^)
How far do you drive between charges, and what sort of driving (speed,
hills, etc.)? Do you have any idea what the farthest you can drive on a
full charge is?
I wonder, if every battery you've gotten has smelled even before
installing in the car, if perhaps there is some sort of contamination on
the outside of the cases that smells even more strongly when the battery
warms up, as it might during charge or discharge? Have you tried
washing the batteries off thoroughly to try to eliminate the smell?
That said, if you've replaced over half of your pack since October
(almost the entire pack, it seems since you mention having replaced 3 in
May and six more since then, though you also note that 5 of the
originals remain so it seems that some of your replacements have been
replaced), then something is definitely not right with your charging or
discharging.
The fact that you are experiencing odour while driving suggests
overdischarge of some cells; paradoxically, odour while charging
suggests overcharge of some cells.
I suppose the good news is that if we can figure out what is going on,
you will be able to eliminate the odour issue and enjoy much better
battery life!
I've cycled new AGMs ranging in size from 20Ah to 400Ah without odour,
and I've run a set of tired old Optima YTs in my EV for the past year
without odour except when that one battery failed on me. There is
definitely something unusual about your supplier/batteries if every AGM
you get stinks even before you use it.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have seen a patent where a second set of brushes sense the armature
voltage and cause a small motor to rotate the brushes to minimize this
voltage. As I remember, this was intended for railway motor use.
Being no motor expert by far, I may be all wet, but this thread
surprises me because, as I understand it, the need for brush advance is
due to "armature reaction". This is where the magnetic field developed
by the armature, which is normally perpendicular to the stator field,
causes an effective shift in the stator field. This makes the "magnetic
neutral" position of the brushes different than the "geometric neutral".
I would expect this effect to be more at low rpm/high torque(high
current and high fields) than at lower current and high RPM.
Perhaps inductance, hysteresis and eddy currents are the dominat factors
at high RPM and need the same sort of brush offset. Without further
reflection, it would seem so since the main problem with lack of brush
offset is at high RPM and high voltage.
Allen
-----Original Message-----
From: David Wilker [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 12:14 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Cc: Jim Husted
Subject: Re: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
Dumb question time:
Can you rig an advance mechanism that would retard/advance the brushes
in relation to RPM and/or volts/amps?
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
---- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hey all
I haven't had the time I've wanted to address my
thoughts toward brush timing like I'd like. Rather
than watch another timing thread go by I thought I'd
throw some thoughts at the group.
Most DC motors are designed to be ran neutral and at a
particular voltage, and in fact I spent most of my
first 25 years building motors making sure they went
out that way (older forklift motors had adjustable
brush rings). It wasn't until I ran into Wayland that
I had to start learning how and when to throw them out
of wack, so to speak.
So why advance the brushes when neutral is more eff?
The first issue (for those that are new) is when the
motor commutator arcs in what's been termed a
flashover. This is caused by using higher voltages
than the motor was intended for, which causes the
field magnetics to shift which in turn causes the
brushes to arc as they are no longer "in tune" with
the fields. By advancing the brushes they line up
with the fields when the motor is seeing that higher
voltage and is running harder.
By advancing the brushes you also see the motors power
band shift further up the RPM scale. I've had reports
of both "love" and "hate" increased advancement. The
problem is "when to advance"?
It was just last year that Pat Sweeney flashed his
daily driver ADC motor, when he did it a second time,
he sent it to me, where I found it running in neutral.
After some cleanup and a few parts and setting it via
the OEM advancement holes he's had no issues, besides
a little loss on his takeoff 8^(
Sometimes lifes a trade off, lose a little eff, or
repair your motor a lot 8^P Now this doesn't apply to
lower voltage EV's as much, but again that depends a
lot on what motor one is using compared to what
voltage it's being run at.
I haven't heard from Bill as to when the brush shift
was taking place on Killacycle, or how well he and
scotty thought it was working but it was, I thought, a
successful test of an on the fly brush timing shift.
Being able to smoothly adjust the timing on DC motors
as they run (just like an ICE) would help squeeze both
better eff as well as performance.
As I'm running short of time my advise to those in
doubt is to advance the brushes and avoid themselves
the costs of motor repairs. As Jeff's done a great
write up on this MTC motor, I thought I'd post a bit
for those not using the standard fare motors 8^)
BTW Jeff, I know exactly what you meant with the MJU
plates 8^) I'll see if I can dig some plates out (if
I have any) and grab some pics of the different hole
positions per your description.
Anyway, yeah neutrals better for you dailies... right
up to the point when you zorch your motor. IMO it's
kind of like condom use, do you really want to chance
"not" using it 8^) Of course the higher the juice
flow the more that it's needed 8^o
Hope this helps
Had fun
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
________________________________________________________________________
____________
Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect. Join Yahoo!'s user
panel and lay it on us.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You know Jim... I've determined that I'm gonna need Regen when I
build my EV. East TN hills are gonna be a killer!
On 7/31/07, Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
<<snip>>
> George posted about interpoled motors and in fact FT
> brought me down a couple (slightly used) Kostov 9"ers
> that are still down at the shop. I discovered that an
> ADC8 armature fits almost directly into them 8^) By
> mod'ing in some ADC brushes and holders I believe a
> much beefier and tougher motor could result.
> Otmar EVen teased me that he'd have to bring out his
> old regen controller (if he could find it) if I got
> around to making such a critter when I showed him 8^)
--
| /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember,
| ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon \ "There is a
| >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative."
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> FWIW I've already gone through 8 AC lift motors for
> Winco Foods and just got a call from Johns work that
> someone was needing a Crown AC motor gone through
> (have no idea why yet) Being these aren't that old
> I
> personally don't see the longevity yet of these
> smaller type AC units.
Jim,
Let me know what you find out on these AC motors.
Sounds like they tried to over-compensate cost
reduction on the motor to make up for the higher
electronics cost?
Thanks,
Rod
P.S. I have nice 9" frame size AC motor for a 5,000 lb
forklift, wound for 24Vdc. It might make a nice
'go-cart' motor :-). I still need to throw together a
control though.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Allen,
The armature reaction and field distortion causes
arcing at the high currents in the series motor, which
is mostly at lower RPM. Arcing also occurs at high
voltage due to the higher voltage between comm
segments. Also it will increase with RPM because the
current is forced to chance faster in the armature
coil which has inductance.
So the best location for the brush is a function of
all of the above.
Jeff
--- "Bukosky, Allen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have seen a patent where a second set of brushes
> sense the armature
> voltage and cause a small motor to rotate the
> brushes to minimize this
> voltage. As I remember, this was intended for
> railway motor use.
>
> Being no motor expert by far, I may be all wet, but
> this thread
> surprises me because, as I understand it, the need
> for brush advance is
> due to "armature reaction". This is where the
> magnetic field developed
> by the armature, which is normally perpendicular to
> the stator field,
> causes an effective shift in the stator field. This
> makes the "magnetic
> neutral" position of the brushes different than the
> "geometric neutral".
> I would expect this effect to be more at low
> rpm/high torque(high
> current and high fields) than at lower current and
> high RPM.
>
> Perhaps inductance, hysteresis and eddy currents are
> the dominat factors
> at high RPM and need the same sort of brush offset.
> Without further
> reflection, it would seem so since the main problem
> with lack of brush
> offset is at high RPM and high voltage.
>
> Allen
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Wilker
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 12:14 AM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Cc: Jim Husted
> Subject: Re: Neutral Timing is Better for Commuters
>
> Dumb question time:
> Can you rig an advance mechanism that would
> retard/advance the brushes
> in relation to RPM and/or volts/amps?
>
>
> David C. Wilker Jr.
> USAF (RET)
>
> ---- Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> Hey all
>
> I haven't had the time I've wanted to address my
> thoughts toward brush timing like I'd like. Rather
> than watch another timing thread go by I thought I'd
> throw some thoughts at the group.
>
> Most DC motors are designed to be ran neutral and at
> a
> particular voltage, and in fact I spent most of my
> first 25 years building motors making sure they went
> out that way (older forklift motors had adjustable
> brush rings). It wasn't until I ran into Wayland
> that
> I had to start learning how and when to throw them
> out
> of wack, so to speak.
>
> So why advance the brushes when neutral is more eff?
>
>
> The first issue (for those that are new) is when the
> motor commutator arcs in what's been termed a
> flashover. This is caused by using higher voltages
> than the motor was intended for, which causes the
> field magnetics to shift which in turn causes the
> brushes to arc as they are no longer "in tune" with
> the fields. By advancing the brushes they line up
> with the fields when the motor is seeing that higher
> voltage and is running harder.
>
> By advancing the brushes you also see the motors
> power
> band shift further up the RPM scale. I've had
> reports
> of both "love" and "hate" increased advancement.
> The
> problem is "when to advance"?
>
> It was just last year that Pat Sweeney flashed his
> daily driver ADC motor, when he did it a second
> time,
> he sent it to me, where I found it running in
> neutral.
> After some cleanup and a few parts and setting it
> via
> the OEM advancement holes he's had no issues,
> besides
> a little loss on his takeoff 8^(
>
> Sometimes lifes a trade off, lose a little eff, or
> repair your motor a lot 8^P Now this doesn't apply
> to
> lower voltage EV's as much, but again that depends a
> lot on what motor one is using compared to what
> voltage it's being run at.
>
> I haven't heard from Bill as to when the brush shift
> was taking place on Killacycle, or how well he and
> scotty thought it was working but it was, I thought,
> a
> successful test of an on the fly brush timing shift.
>
> Being able to smoothly adjust the timing on DC
> motors
> as they run (just like an ICE) would help squeeze
> both
> better eff as well as performance.
>
> As I'm running short of time my advise to those in
> doubt is to advance the brushes and avoid themselves
> the costs of motor repairs. As Jeff's done a great
> write up on this MTC motor, I thought I'd post a bit
> for those not using the standard fare motors 8^)
>
> BTW Jeff, I know exactly what you meant with the MJU
> plates 8^) I'll see if I can dig some plates out
> (if
> I have any) and grab some pics of the different hole
> positions per your description.
>
> Anyway, yeah neutrals better for you dailies...
> right
> up to the point when you zorch your motor. IMO it's
> kind of like condom use, do you really want to
> chance
> "not" using it 8^) Of course the higher the juice
> flow the more that it's needed 8^o
>
> Hope this helps
> Had fun
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________
> ____________
> Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.
> Join Yahoo!'s user
> panel and lay it on us.
>
http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7
>
>
>
>
____________________________________________________________________________________
Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.
http://autos.yahoo.com/carfinder/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul wrote:
> What tire size do the super high millage cars run now days? It seems
> that many of them are 65 series tires (Prius and Insight come to
> mind.) Now with open tires I'd guess the narrower the better - but
> that could be a wind resistance thing.
I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make.
'65' is the aspect ratio of the tire and has nothing to do with how wide
or narrow the tire is; although it isn't possible to find really wide
tires in a 65-series aspect ratio, 215/65 is common and all the way up
to 275/65 can be had. However, I'm running 165/65R13s on my EV, which
many would consider to be verging on pizza-cutters. Though the narrowest
tires tend to be 75 or 80-series (e.g. 155/80R13), some of the narrowest
ones I've found are 65's: 145/65R15 (the sort of tire that might show up
on an EV Beetle, or perhaps the front end of your buggy).
Are you perhaps suggesting that rather than placing the emphasis on the
tire width, we should be more concerned with the aspect ratio instead?
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Whoa...that's a heluva story.
You might ask Myers Motors about the danger of submerging the motor
bearings. If they wipe out it'll ruin your motor.
Otherwise, just clean wire and cable interconnects and maybe apply a light
coating of dielectric grease.
Rich
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Tweety went swimming!!
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 09:23:23 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"; format=flowed
Message-Id: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Tweety went swimming!
You may have noticed, in the weather news, that Texas has been really
hammered with rain. Earlier this month we have had more than our share
of water!
Anyway, during one of those rainy days, I was out, in Tweety, running
errands during lunch. On the way back to work, the bottom dropped out
of the clouds and it was poring so hard the streets were completely
covered in water. I was driving down the middle of the road which was
the only way I could tell where I was. I could barely see the yellow
stripe under the water. The rest of the road was a raging river that
went all the way across business parking lots. When I got back to
work, I noticed that raging river was flowing across the dip at the
entrance of the parking lot entrance. I thought I canât cross that!
But there were cars behind me waiting for me to go. So I went for it.
The water was much deeper than I thought! A wall of water gushed over
the top of the car and I couldnât see anything! I knew Tweetyâs motor
was completely under water at that point. Water was flowing in around
the bottom of the door, but, it drove along as if nothing unusual was
going on. It drove back up and out of the âriverâ. I parked it and
ran inside. I came back out after the rain slacked off and plugged it
in. It was still raining hard after work, but, not flooding as bad.
Tweety drove home as if nothing had happened. The next day, I crawled
under and looked at the motor. I lifted a connector boot and water
pored out. All four connector boots were full of water, even the two
on top. No water in the brush guard. I guess the fan sucked it out as
I drove.
Everything still seems to be ok, but I was wondering if there is
anything that should be done for a motor that has been submerged â
while driving.
Ken
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Bill. Sounds like we should use 3 wheels for record setting and
just take the rear one off and run brackets. The cool part is this
procedure only takes a few minutes.
Shawn
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Dube <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Sent: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 4:35 pm
Subject: Re: NEDRA board help on 3 wheeled vehicles
Let me clear up some confusion.
NEDRA is an "Alternative Sanctioning Body" from the perspective of
the NHRA. Thus, we can operate NEDRA sanctioned races at NHRA tracks
and the track liability insurance will cover the NEDRA event.
Basically, the NHRA has said that the NEDRA safety rules are "OK" for
their tracks.
Additionally, the NHRA has incorporated NEDRA's safety rules (not the
NEDRA vehicle classifications) into the NHRA rulebook. Thus, you may
run EVs that otherwise fall within the existing NHRA classifications in
NHRA bracket races.
A motorcycle with more than two wheels doesn't fit in the existing
NHRA vehicle classifications. It DOES fit in the NEDRA vehicle
classifications. Thus, you can run at NHRA tracks, and compete in NEDRA
records and events, (also test-and-tunes, exhibition runs, etc.) but,
technically, you can't compete in NHRA bracket racing.
If one of the other competitors lodges a protest, you could be
prevented from competing (and wining a prize) in an NHRA bracket race
with a three-wheeled vehicle.
The track doesn't care because you are covered by the insurance. This
is because you are following the NHRA safety rules and fit within the
NEDRA vehicle classifications. The other competitors might care,
however, and could protest your vehicle because it does not technically
fit the bracket racing class rules.
This was the same for the reverse gear requirement for Wayland, by
the way. Until NEDRA made it a rule that reverse was required, the
track didn't care (but the other competitors might have made it a
classification issue.)
Of course, as usual, my opinion on these matters is of no value,
consequence, nor has it any official standing whatsoever. :-)
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free
from AOL at AOL.com.
=0
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
For a transformer to work one of two things must happen...
This sparked an idea. A standard buck converter (i.e. a normal PWM
series motor controller) can only step the pack voltage down. It has a
single untapped inductor (usually the motor's field winding).
But... there are buck converters that use a tapped inductor. This does
interesting things. It lets you change the relative stress on the diode
and transistor, and the duty cycle / output voltage relationship. For
example, you can reduce the stress on the transistor by increasing the
stress on the diode; useful because high breakdown voltage diodes are
cheaper and easier to get.
The field winding of a motor *is* a tapped inductor; it normally
consists of four coils (for a 4-pole motor), which can be connected in
various series/parallel arrangements. If it has two pairs in series, for
example, the tap between them will behave like a center-tapped inductor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Markus Lorch wrote:
I have a 1221R rated at 84V, 375A... I currently run my Curtis with
90V nominal and am wondering if I can take it any higher...
could I do a 120V or 144V pack without having to replace parts?
Or is there a fair chance that something will break?
84v is an unusual nominal voltage; was your controller specially built
for some OEM that wanted this voltage?
In general, the Curtis controllers are mass-produced commodity items.
They have been tweaked and cost-reduced to have just barely enough
safety margin to get by. I would be very reluctant to use one above its
ratings. They are fragile enough as it is! Your -R controller is going
to be particularly difficult to repair if it breaks.
I suspect I have to open it and adjust some pots, like over voltage?
No, there are no pots for this. There is only one extra pot on the -R
Curtis, and I think it controls max regen current. The pots are all
accessible without opening the case, by removing the screws on the sides
of the case.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Ken
This kind of reminded me of some of FT's stories when
he was boat racing and would submerge the motors to
cool them off 8^) Personally I think you're racing
those gassers to much if you're resorting to FT's old
motor cooling tricks, LMAO!
Here's my take on this type of issue. First off, I
use a soap and water parts washer (a lot easier on
enviroment and me 8^) but I also bake the parts out in
my industrial oven to quickly remove all the water.
Your bearings are (I'm sure) sealed and doubt much
water got into them as you tried to teach tweety to
swim. The moisture remaining in the motor is another
concern though! Rust will form and if it forms around
and behind your poles and fields it can cause
insulation to break down as the rust acts as an
abrasive as EVen minor vibrations and bouncing occur.
I know it's easier for me to bust it down and dry it
out but this is in fact what I'd do. If allowed to
remain and fester it could cause you problem years
from now. This is in fact one of the areas I'm trying
to beef up (coatings) so that the motors don't suffer
as much from wet weather and having to drive in it.
If you don't or can't pull the motor try and keep an
eye out for rust and pull it if you start to see it
developing.
Anyway Tweeties fly, so stop trying to teach it how to
swim, either that or call FT up and get some boating
tips 8^P From what I've seen in the news about what
you guys are getting down there, this might be a
needed idea if the rain doesn't stop pounding you
there soon!
Just to recap, if this were my motor, I'd pull it and
pull the armature / DE plate assy out and blow the
motor out and make sure it as dry as you can get it.
If this is not an option please feel free to grab some
pics as time goes by and I'll offer an eye for you so
that you don't run into a really bad scenario.
Hopefully the motors heat helped to dry it out well
enough to prevent the moisture from remaining, heck
maybe, just maybe you got a free motor cleaning out of
it 8^o
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better Globetrotter. Get better travel answers from someone who knows.
Yahoo! Answers - Check it out.
http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396545469
--- End Message ---
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Actually, the 65 is a percentage OF the width. 65 percent of the
section width (215 in the example below) is the distance between the rim
and the edge of the tire. So a 215/65R 15 is shorter than a 215/70R 15.
That means for a given tire size, a 65 aspect ratio will have a smaller
contact patch that an equal width 80 aspect ratio. BUT a 65 aspect
ratio will have less revolutions per mile.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roger Stockton
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 12:24
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
Paul wrote:
> What tire size do the super high millage cars run now days? It seems
> that many of them are 65 series tires (Prius and Insight come to
> mind.) Now with open tires I'd guess the narrower the better - but
> that could be a wind resistance thing.
I'm not sure what the point is that you're trying to make.
'65' is the aspect ratio of the tire and has nothing to do with how wide
or narrow the tire is; although it isn't possible to find really wide
tires in a 65-series aspect ratio, 215/65 is common and all the way up
to 275/65 can be had. However, I'm running 165/65R13s on my EV, which
many would consider to be verging on pizza-cutters. Though the narrowest
tires tend to be 75 or 80-series (e.g. 155/80R13), some of the narrowest
ones I've found are 65's: 145/65R15 (the sort of tire that might show up
on an EV Beetle, or perhaps the front end of your buggy).
Are you perhaps suggesting that rather than placing the emphasis on the
tire width, we should be more concerned with the aspect ratio instead?
Cheers,
Roger.
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* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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How about just hooking the Curtis to its max pack voltage and then have
a bypass contactor to add in the additional batteries for full throttle
operation? I know you would have balance issues but with proper
equalization each day the pack wouldn't suffer too badly.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 11:43
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Could higher pack voltage be stepped down for Curtis input?
Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G wrote:
> For a transformer to work one of two things must happen...
This sparked an idea. A standard buck converter (i.e. a normal PWM
series motor controller) can only step the pack voltage down. It has a
single untapped inductor (usually the motor's field winding).
But... there are buck converters that use a tapped inductor. This does
interesting things. It lets you change the relative stress on the diode
and transistor, and the duty cycle / output voltage relationship. For
example, you can reduce the stress on the transistor by increasing the
stress on the diode; useful because high breakdown voltage diodes are
cheaper and easier to get.
The field winding of a motor *is* a tapped inductor; it normally
consists of four coils (for a 4-pole motor), which can be connected in
various series/parallel arrangements. If it has two pairs in series, for
example, the tap between them will behave like a center-tapped inductor.
--
Ring the bells that still can ring
Forget the perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in -- Leonard Cohen
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Jim,
>
> Let me know what you find out on these AC motors.
> Sounds like they tried to over-compensate cost
> reduction on the motor to make up for the higher
> electronics cost?
>
> Thanks,
> Rod
> P.S. I have nice 9" frame size AC motor for a 5,000
> lb
> forklift, wound for 24Vdc. It might make a nice
> 'go-cart' motor :-). I still need to throw together
> a
> control though.
Hey Rod
All of the motors I've seen from Winco have been
shaft, bearing, and or general clean up issues and not
anything in the windings (then again the same can be
said for the DC motors I do.
The BT models I've been getting from Winco Foods are
made by Danaher (Czech Republic) and in fact are good
motors from what I can tell so far, minus the abuse my
customers dish out 8^)
The data tag on the Drive unit says that it's a 3~87
Hz, 34 volt 174 amp, 7.5 KW at 2500 RPM's.
One of the biggest issues that I see is that these
Danaher motor use an encoder bearing on one end that
runs 600.00 bucks if it needs replacing 8^o IMO
that's a pretty costly bearing and in fact costs more
than most of my total invoices for full DC motor
repairs. Although the winding aspects are not the
problem with these units the fact that I'm already
seeing them do to these other issues tells me that
there is nothing that someone can design that another
person can't beat the crap out of 8^o
I'll grab some pics before I get these two I have in
shop back out, and I'll post them at the site when I
get a minute.
BTW, there's nothing like an old fashioned DC brushed
motor that any general controller can make run 8^)
Cya
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
____________________________________________________________________________________
Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
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Just for craziness sake... ;)
Is there a minimum distance between wheels in the rules? That is to
say, could you make a 3 wheeled design technically 4 wheeled by
putting a small axle between the front or rear wheels?
It would increase complexity, but would be pretty nifty, I think :)
--T
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Hi all,
I know some people don't consider fuel cell powered cars as true
"electric cars", but I thought this was an interesting read anyway.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/07/31/tech-buckeye-bullet.html
For John's sake I'll refrain from comparing this vehicle to White Zombie! ;}
Colin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 7/31/2007 11:11:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
______________________________________________________________________________
________
For John's sake I'll refrain from comparing this vehicle to White Zombie! ;}
Colin
______________________________________________________________________________
________
Why? John's car has an electric motor/motors four wheels and a seat
shouldn't they be in the same class?
************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks,
You may not realize this, but the messages that are showing to you as
truncated are not, in fact, being truncated :) The original message is
intact but not being displayed because of some MIME magic.. MIME is
just a method of formatting information in email and if you have two
MIME messages stacked together, depending on what they are some email
clients will only show the -last- one in the chain.
Which means, if someone has a signature with HTML (or whatever) in it,
the list truncates it out and attaches the familiar "YOU HAVE BEEN
TRUNCATED" message onto the end..
Your email client then displays only the second bit.. namely the
truncation message.
The answer is to look at the 'original' or 'source' of the email. In
Gmail, which many of us use, you can click on the little arrow next to
the 'Reply' fast tab and it will show 'show original'. You will then
be able to view the whole message.
A few of these truncated messages actually are truncated in the body
of the message, but I've not noticed very many. Find out how to 'show
source' or 'show original' with your email client and you should be
ok.
--T
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somewhat interesting but it isn't really an electric vehicle. hybrid
electric maybe
I wonder if the rules are that sloppy as to allow that as an electric
vehicle. I sort of hope not
maybe hook up with A123 instead
Dan
Colin Frame wrote:
Hi all,
I know some people don't consider fuel cell powered cars as true
"electric cars", but I thought this was an interesting read anyway.
http://www.cbc.ca/technology/story/2007/07/31/tech-buckeye-bullet.html
For John's sake I'll refrain from comparing this vehicle to White
Zombie! ;}
Colin
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Woot. I can enter an Electric Quadracycle into an NHRA race! Look out John!!!
;-)
--T
PS: Hey now... Electric Quadracycle.....
On 7/31/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In a message dated 7/31/2007 11:11:56 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> ________
>
> For John's sake I'll refrain from comparing this vehicle to White Zombie! ;}
>
> Colin
>
> ______________________________________________________________________________
> ________
>
> Why? John's car has an electric motor/motors four wheels and a seat
> shouldn't they be in the same class?
>
>
>
>
>
> ************************************** Get a sneak peek of the all-new AOL at
> http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: "Dewey, Jody R ATC COMNAVAIRLANT, N422G5G" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: RE: Bridgestone Ecopia EP-03 Tires - tire width vs RR
Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 12:49:48 -0400
Actually, the 65 is a percentage OF the width. 65 percent of the
section width (215 in the example below) is the distance between the rim
and the edge of the tire. So a 215/65R 15 is shorter than a 215/70R 15.
That means for a given tire size, a 65 aspect ratio will have a smaller
contact patch that an equal width 80 aspect ratio.
No, it doesn't. The tire patch area equals the load on the car ( in lbs)
divided by the tire pressure ( in psi).
And, since a 215/65-15 has the same tread width as a 215/70-15, and the
patch area is the same (assuming both tires have the same load and tire
pressure) then the patch width AND length will be the same for both tires.
Patch size has no particular relevance to tire rolling resistance, though.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
http://newlivehotmail.com
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