EV Digest 4129
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) First 20 battery watering. 2 2/3 gallons. RO water or distilled?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV Calculator update
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Battery Box Advice Sought
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Welding Aluminum and another question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by Dave Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Ampabout ... Don't Think Neighbor
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(The beauty of bendable batteries)-long
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: BELT-ALTERNATOR-STARTERS
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: EV Calculator update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) DIY Solder Pot
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Battery Exchange (The beauty of bendable batteries)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DIY Solder Pot
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: EV Calculator update
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Welding Aluminum and another question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Scooter Wars
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to be a pest, folks, but this thread is off-topic. Please take it off
list.
Thanks.
David
Assistant EV List Administrator y Topic Cop
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some of my US 125 batteries took over 8ox. per cell on first watering. The
lowest battery didn't seem to have less capacity than the rest. Whew!.. I
got Alhambra distilled water which I measured as 0 parts per million
dissolved solids. My Reverse osmosis water is measuring about 9 parts per
million. Is this good enough or should I keep using distilled water? 6ppm
is normal for RO water. Might be time to change some filters.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
what was the web site for the calculator again
thanks steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone that escapes me now made an aftermarket 2 speed for a regular pickup
rearend. Gear Vendors maybe? Had a finned aluminum cover IIRC, came into my
shop in the mid 90's and I remember chatting with the fellow about it. maybe
you could find one of those?
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
> Older (Pre-war) Ford cars and trucks could be had with a Columbia 2-spead
> rear end, but I don't have any more information that that. Sorry.
>
> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
> Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
> - Harold S.
> Hulbert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:48 PM
> Subject: Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
>
>
> >I know there are some older pickup trucks that used
> > them. I knew a guy who had fitted one into his
> > t-bucket roadster. I don't know what models had them.
> > I'd been thinking of using the reduction gear part of
> > a transfer case from a four wheel drive. one of the
> > newer shift on the fly models. That way I would only
> > need to connect a switch to do the job.
> >
> > Gadget
> >
> >
> > --- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> I've considered multi-speed differentials before,
> >> but I don't know much
> >> about them. I'd assumed that the only ones
> >> available would be from very
> >> large vehicles (I think my dad's Freightliner had a
> >> 2-speed air-shifted
> >> diff).
> >>
> >> Is there such a thing that would fit on a compact
> >> pickup? I guess it'd
> >> be kinda funny looking (but perhaps in a cool, neato
> >> sort of way) to have
> >> a diff that's almost as big around as the wheels.
> >>
> >> --chris
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Reverend Gadget said:
> >> >>
> >> >> If I do go with direct-drive, the money I don't
> >> >> spend on a
> >> >> transmission/clutch/adapter plate/etc will be
> >> spent
> >> >> on getting a decent
> >> >> rear end and driveshaft; most likely a Ford 9"
> >> >> setup. I have a great deal
> >> >> of flexibility with ratio choices with this rear
> >> >> end, though clearly I
> >> >> can't change while I'm driving. :o)
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > Two speed rearend perhaps?
> >> >
> >> > Gadget
> >> >
> >> > =====
> >> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > =====
> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
would probably work OK for older cars and battery boxes, but late model
vehicles use HSLA (high strength low alloy) steels that do not handle
brazing well. DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:24 PM
Subject: RE: Battery Box Advice Sought
> Why doesn't anyone braze their battery boxes, or braze them into the
> car?
>
> --- Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Woo-hoo! TS batteries arrived today. Building battery boxes
> > tomorrow!
> >
> > Bill Dennis
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Matthew D. Graham
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 4:31 PM
> > To: 'Electric Vehicle Discussion List'
> > Subject: RE: Battery Box Advice Sought
> >
> > Bill,
> >
> > That sounds exactly like where I was just a few months ago. I
> > debated this
> > issue for the four battery boxes in the Nissan 240SX conversion I'm
> > working
> > on for holding 25 Orbitals. I found that after exhaustively working
> > on all
> > the design details of sheet metal boxes and incorporating features
> > for all
> > the strength-adding ribbed supports, I didn't have the tools and
> > technical
> > expertise to do it myself, and for the life of me, couldn't get
> > anyone to
> > quote the job for me.
> >
> > So, I ended up going with the angle iron approach. Easy to weld,
> > but hard to
> > look at. Of course my preference (and I assume yours) would be to
> > have
> > beautiful, perfectly incorporated sheet metal boxes. In the end, my
> > decision
> > was really based on what I could get done in the interest of
> > getting the car
> > on the road sooner rather than later. I've always planned on
> > improving on
> > this aspect in the future by ripping out the angle iron and
> > installing
> > professional sheet metal boxes. Of course, after a visit with John
> > Wayland
> > in Bend a couple weeks back (story to follow later) I've been
> > absolutely
> > shamed into moving that higher up in my list of priorities.
> >
> > That said, I expected to use 18GA steel for my boxes when I
> > considered doing
> > it myself. (Later, I was leaning towards aluminum, done
> > professionally) With
> > Dutch bends and ribs for support, it should be pretty sturdy. Of
> > course,
> > thicker gauge might be necessary for other reasons--namely your
> > welding
> > equipment and skills. I've had difficulty MIG welding 20 GA, and
> > sometimes
> > 18, even when using Argon. Then again, my welding experience is
> > very
> > limited.
> >
> > Let us know what you decide!
> >
> > Matt Graham
> > 300V Nissan 240SX (STILL in progress!)
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 1:48 PM
> > To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> > Subject: Battery Box Advice Sought
> >
> >
> > I'm getting ready to build my rear battery box and have made a
> > mockup. I
> > could make the box out of angle iron, or sheet metal (not aluminum;
> > I don't
> > have TIG welder). If I use sheet metal, I'd like some advice on
> > how thick
> > (gauge) it needs to be to safely support the weight of the TS
> > cells.
> > There's a 3-part image at:
> > http://www.fredrickgroup.com/ElectricCarConversion/Mockup3Fold.jpg
> > .
> >
> > The first image shows the cutout of the gas tank hump. It measures
> > 36 x
> > 10.5 inches. The battery box won't drop down into it, but will
> > span it.
> >
> > The second image shows a particle board mockup of the battery box.
> > Box has
> > two levels (rear level about 4 inches higher than front) and is
> > 45-1/8
> > inches at its widest point. The 18 inches from front to back,
> > divided into
> > 10.5-inch front section and 7.5-inch rear section.
> >
> > The third image shows my (artistically poor!) attempt at
> > demonstrating what
> > the TS cell arrangement will look like in the box.
> >
> > The front part of the box will hold around 275 pounds of TS cells,
> > and the
> > rear part of the box will hold around 190 pounds of TS cells.
> >
> > All advice appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Bill Dennis
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> =====
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Mail - Find what you need with new enhanced search.
> http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
I have no mechanical experience with Al, but the last
time I took a commuter plane all of the panels had
rivets. The panels may not be Aluminum, but they did
have rivets, not welds. Perhaps the mechanical
inclined could explain this.
Rod
One of the reasons for this is maintenence. A riveted panel can be thought of
as only semi-permanent. The rivets can be drilled out and the panel removed for
repairs or inspections. And since a lot of areas under panels on aircraft have
fuel and hydraulic lines under them, it's safer to drill out rivets than grind
out a section and weld it back. In many areas of the wing it would be
impossible. And from what I've learned from this thread about welding aluminum,
the results of welding the panels wouldn't always be uniform and would involve
a lot of rework or in-flight failures. Also, I don't know how smooth a bead on
aluminum can be made but rivets can be just as smooth as the skin of the
aircraft.
And while I have the attention of the aluminum experts, how thick does the
aluminum sheeting have to be to support eight (arranged 2 by 4) T-125s and what
type of aluminum should I use? The sides would need to be bent at 90 degree
angles so it couldn't be too brittle. Thanks.
john
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--- Begin Message ---
Raymond Knight wrote:
A couple of things. Why is the flywheel as big as round as it is? It could
be made smaller and have the starter come in from the tranny side. They
don't do this for a reason, I would assume.
Probably because it's simple, convenient, and there's no particular
reason to change.
Mazda rotaries have the starter alongside the transmission, reaching
forward. That's because the bulky beer-keg shape of the engine would
require either a huge ring gear or some kind of offset starter drive, so
it was simpler to just reach forward.
--
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dave Williams)===================DoD #978===
== "Peace Through Superior Firepower" USAF Strategic Air Command ==
========================== http://www.bacomatic.org/~dw/index.htm ==
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce you make some good points but if any vehicle is left unprotected from
the elements and leaves collect water will do tremendous damage. Metal will
deteriorate. The Think when washed will display electrical problems with
the 12v system. They dissapear when the car dries. However I never had
problems with rain . If this car is serviced properly it will perform well.
It has comfortable adjustable drivers seat. Plenty of room for passengers.
I think it is more comfortable than the GEM. If this vehicle has warranty
left Ford will come out and tow the vehicle in for repairs. Under warranty
I had the motor, battery, display and front wheel bearing replaced. These
vehicles are still supported by Ford under 3 year warranty and will continue
to be supported by Ford for as far as I know for 7 years. The owners should
contact Ford for clarifacation of their warranty rights. I hope your
attitude didn't disuade them from taking further action. Any problems I had
with my Th!nk were fixed by Ford. Lawrence Rhodes........
----- Original Message -----
From: "bruce parmenter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "evlist" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 2:38 PM
Subject: Re: Ampabout ... Don't Think Neighbor
My schedule has been a bit busy lately. I am winding down my
selling rebuilt PCs the money going to the EV charging
infrastructure installations.
I will be trading that time for the on-line classes I will be
starting in April. It may take me a while to earn a BSCS degree
because I won't be taking a full load while I am working.
But I have made time for other things too. One of those was the
POST to the EVDL about a person in Atherton who needed help with
her EV.
An EAA member came over last Saturday to go with me. We used my
EV to get there, because his ICE died (OK all EV drivers may
chuckle now). After we grabbed lunch, the EV was only a few
miles away from my home.
We met the owner in their driveway next to a Ford Th!nk nEV
which looked like it had been sitting for months (dirt, leaves,
etc.).
She (the owner) said the nEV won't not start even after
charging it for several days. And that is why it had been
sitting in the driveway for over six months (looked like a
year).
I had done my homework the night before, reading all the
pertinent entries on the Th!nk forum. They had mentioned three
different revisions of motor-controller assemblies. Also, that
the charger may hum, but that the sound is no indication that
the pack is actually getting current.
We first worked to get at the batteries. Our fear was that the
72V pack was six old dried out group 27 deep-cycle wet-cell
batteries, and all that sitting around not charged had sulfated
them to death.
Different than the GEM nEV, the Think Neighbor nEV placed its
battery pack directly under the front driver-passenger seats.
We removed the seat bottoms to start removing a large plastic
shroud underneath the seat frame which covers the batteries.
The shroud was held on with mostly plastic screw-in clips, as
well as four bolts. These bolts screwed in to spot-welded nuts
which were on the underside of the seat's metal cross bar. We
noticed that the plastic around one of the bolts holding the
shroud had been cut-away, as if to by-pass the bolt.
We found out why.
Two of the four bolts came out, but the last one would not come
out. It was captured. The nut had broken its weld and was
spinning. There was no way to get the bolt out. So we got
permission to cut the plastic around that bolt.
With the shroud off, we saw that it was not a wet-cell pack,
but six gel-cell type batteries (similar to what the Solectria
Force EV uses).
As I measured each battery by lifting up the protective cap. I
had to probe through a huge brown grease blob that Ford
applied to each battery terminal (odd). All the batteries
measured 13 VDC except one which read 12 VDC.
Measuring across pack I read 77.1 VDC. As we plugged in the
battery charger, the pack voltage did not rise. Even changing
the position of the service toggle switch did not make a
difference. This meant to me the charger was not pushing
current to the pack, else the pack voltage would have risen.
I put a standard 6 amp automotive battery charger on one of the
13 VDC batteries. It initially took 4 amps, but tapered off to
3 amps in about 5 minutes. I used a second automotive battery
charger on another 13 VDC battery, with similar results.
I felt the pack was not totally dead but likely partially charged.
It had likely self-discharged from months of sitting around in
their driveway.
With the nEV not able to start (no display when the key is on),
and the charger is not working, advised the owner to consider
getting an estimate of the repair costs, and looking at the web
for a replacement nEV cost.
She mentioned that she had bought the nEV through her company for
only $1000. I let her know the days of automakers giving-away
nEVs for CARB credits were gone. But there are low priced nEVs
on Ebay and other outlets. She said she would check it out.
But this hands-on experience with the Ford Think Neighbor nEV,
has me form my own opinion of which nEV to buy.
IMHO:
With a design that looks like the Ford team threw it together as
quickly and cheaply as possible, with no consideration of any
regular maintenance (cheap bolts and welds that break), Think
again if you are looking to buy a Neighbor nEV. Plus it is a
discontinued line. The GEM is still in production, and has plenty
of support. Not to mention a much better design for the same
price range (used).
-
=====
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bruce Parmenter wrote:
EVLN(The beauty of bendable batteries)-long
http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0%2C13026%2C1423451%2C00.html
Vastly thinner, lighter power sources are destined to make all
our electric dreams come true, writes Alok Jha
<SNIP>
A traditional lead acid battery (where one electrode is made of
lead, the other of lead dioxide and sulphuric acid floats between
the two) has a capacity of 35 watt hours per kilogram (Wh/kg).
The nickel metal hydride batteries that became available in the
early 1990s, and enabled laptop computing, are about 90Wh/kg.
Newer lithium ion batteries, used in mobile phones and today's
laptops, are 125 Wh/kg.
"At 125Wh/kg, you can drive a car 125 miles on a single charge -
that's not good enough," says Sadoway. "You need to go about 250
miles on a single charge before it's going to have widespread
appeal. So you need a battery that's about 250Wh/kg. We've got
batteries in my lab right now that are 300Wh/kg and I can see the
possibility of breaking 400Wh/kg."
<SNIP>
Folks, am I the only one a bit freaked out by these numbers? While I am
sure most of us do not agree with his 125 mile comment, the battery numbers
themselves sound incredible. I was just comparing them on a Solectria Force.
The 13 standard lead-acid gell-cells on the Force weight 815 pounds, or
370.5 kilograms. Using their 35 watt hours/kilogram number gives a capacity
of 12967.5 watt hours. (They are 156 volts nominal and rated 86 AH, 13,416
watt-hour. Pretty close.) At 200 watt hours per mile, their 35 Wh/Kg
number predict a range of 64.8 miles. Sounds about right under ideal
conditions, but actual range is probably about 45 miles, at least in my
area, or about 70% of ideal.
Now, substitute their Slimcell batteries in the Force. Ignoring their
physical size and just using the weight, 370.5 Kg of Slimcells at their
current capacity of 300 Wh/kg would have a capacity of 111150 watt
hours. At 200 watt hours per mile, that is a range of 555.75 miles. Even
allowing for the same 70% limit the current batteries have, that would
still be a range of 389 miles.
Yes, I know, what is in the lab doesn't always translate into a production
result, and we don't know how bulky these batteries may be, but still, WOW.
Just for giggles I also looked at recharge times. The existing dual 1100
chargers on the Force would take about 80 hours to recharge the
battery. Assuming about 156 volts nominal, even a PFC-50 would take about
14 hours.
Anyone think there might be a market for a sealed 12 Volt group 27 battery
with a capacity of 712 AH? How about an Optima replacement that is 12 Volt
511 AH? :) I know, just dreaming, but I can still dream, right?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My first battery boxes where made out of 0.25 inch thick aluminum plates. There
was two boxes which measure 40 inches square by 20 inches deep to hold 16 inch
long 2.2 volt battery cells.
The aluminum of which I don't know what the grade is, but there was soft
enough, so it can be bend with a slight radius without cracking.
Two sides and the bottom was all in one piece with the other two sides welded
on. Because of the 0.25 thickness of the aluminum, there was no problem of
warping and heat sinking.
The aluminum was welded with Mig Welding, using a 0.035 aluminum wire using
helium gas. The welds are nice and smooth.
A aluminum angle that was 0.25 by 4 by 4 inches was welded on the bottom, over
the bottom weld bead and extends 4 inches from the box for mounting.
Another method of welding aluminum which I just learn last year, was a low
temperature aluminum welding on thin material, is call aluminum soldering. You
used aluminum flux coat rods or aluminum wire with a acetylene and oxygen with
a No. 1 or No. 2 torch tip.
Radiator shops used this method for welding aluminum radiators. This is the
only source, I can get the aluminum wire. Many welding shops do not know about
this type of welding.
Roland
W
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu<mailto:ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, February 26, 2005 4:46 AM
Subject: Welding Aluminum and another question
Rod Hower wrote:
I have no mechanical experience with Al, but the last
time I took a commuter plane all of the panels had
rivets. The panels may not be Aluminum, but they did
have rivets, not welds. Perhaps the mechanical
inclined could explain this.
Rod
One of the reasons for this is maintenence. A riveted panel can be thought of
as only semi-permanent. The rivets can be drilled out and the panel removed for
repairs or inspections. And since a lot of areas under panels on aircraft have
fuel and hydraulic lines under them, it's safer to drill out rivets than grind
out a section and weld it back. In many areas of the wing it would be
impossible. And from what I've learned from this thread about welding aluminum,
the results of welding the panels wouldn't always be uniform and would involve
a lot of rework or in-flight failures. Also, I don't know how smooth a bead on
aluminum can be made but rivets can be just as smooth as the skin of the
aircraft.
And while I have the attention of the aluminum experts, how thick does the
aluminum sheeting have to be to support eight (arranged 2 by 4) T-125s and what
type of aluminum should I use? The sides would need to be bent at 90 degree
angles so it couldn't be too brittle. Thanks.
john
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--- Begin Message ---
Here is what I have come up with:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally anyways)
with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable with crimped
copper pipe on either end. The braid goes through the entire pipe, so when
they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure a good solid connection,
but still allow flex.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: February 25, 2005 9:43 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Current Capacity of 1/2" Copper Pipe
Electro Automotive wrote:
> Why do so many people on this list seem to want to do everything the
> hard way?
Because not aware of easier ways yet, and don't have your experience.
This is what this list is for.
What I would use is braded straps sold in any automotive shop, or you can
buy a spool of braid and cut to fit.
You crimp the end of strap just like any other cable, but it is far more
flexible totally relieving stress to the battery terminals.
1" copper will be flexible enough if tyou have few inches length, but if it
is to interconnect nearest posts of two adjacent batteries, it may still be
too rigit to stress the seal around battery posts if batteries move a little
(and they always do), unless one makes stres relieving bents and avoid using
straight short pieces.
Victor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> A couple of things. Why is the flywheel as big as round as it is? It could
> be made smaller and have the starter come in from the tranny side.
Umm, maybe because it's primary purpose is to be a flywheel? Since the
RPMs are pretty much set by the engine, if it was smaller in diameter, it
would have to be heavier to have the same "flywheel" effect.
Read up some on Centrifugal force. In order to have the same rotating
inertia a smaller flywheel either has to spin faster or be heavier or
both.
> backwards. Incorporating the starter into the flywheel is just a lot
> simpler
> an action. But they won't be needy for much longer anyway. Incorporating
> the
> alternator into the flywheel still makes a ton of sense though.
Honda already does this with the Insite. However, even though it's a
better, more efficient, idea, it's NOT cheaper to produce, at least not in
the short term. Short term profits are very important to any bussiness
and in the short term belt driven starter/generators are probably the
cheapest way to achieve the desired results, that's why you are starting
to see them appearing on vehicles now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, I think they are 'fairly' common amoung the folks that have the big
pickups and tow 5th wheelers. I know a guy that has one of the bigger
diesel pickups and has a two speed rear end in it.
> Someone that escapes me now made an aftermarket 2 speed for a regular
> pickup
> rearend. Gear Vendors maybe? Had a finned aluminum cover IIRC, came into
> my
> shop in the mid 90's and I remember chatting with the fellow about it.
> maybe
> you could find one of those?
> David Chapman
> Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
> http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 5:13 PM
> Subject: Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
>
>
>> Older (Pre-war) Ford cars and trucks could be had with a Columbia
>> 2-spead
>> rear end, but I don't have any more information that that. Sorry.
>>
>> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
>> Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
>> - Harold
>> S.
>> Hulbert
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
>> Sent: Friday, February 25, 2005 2:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: 2-speed diff, was Re: Direct drive
>>
>>
>> >I know there are some older pickup trucks that used
>> > them. I knew a guy who had fitted one into his
>> > t-bucket roadster. I don't know what models had them.
>> > I'd been thinking of using the reduction gear part of
>> > a transfer case from a four wheel drive. one of the
>> > newer shift on the fly models. That way I would only
>> > need to connect a switch to do the job.
>> >
>> > Gadget
>> >
>> >
>> > --- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> I've considered multi-speed differentials before,
>> >> but I don't know much
>> >> about them. I'd assumed that the only ones
>> >> available would be from very
>> >> large vehicles (I think my dad's Freightliner had a
>> >> 2-speed air-shifted
>> >> diff).
>> >>
>> >> Is there such a thing that would fit on a compact
>> >> pickup? I guess it'd
>> >> be kinda funny looking (but perhaps in a cool, neato
>> >> sort of way) to have
>> >> a diff that's almost as big around as the wheels.
>> >>
>> >> --chris
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> Reverend Gadget said:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> If I do go with direct-drive, the money I don't
>> >> >> spend on a
>> >> >> transmission/clutch/adapter plate/etc will be
>> >> spent
>> >> >> on getting a decent
>> >> >> rear end and driveshaft; most likely a Ford 9"
>> >> >> setup. I have a great deal
>> >> >> of flexibility with ratio choices with this rear
>> >> >> end, though clearly I
>> >> >> can't change while I'm driving. :o)
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Two speed rearend perhaps?
>> >> >
>> >> > Gadget
>> >> >
>> >> > =====
>> >> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> > =====
>> > visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< what was the web site for the calculator again
thanks steve clunn >>
http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html - feel free to give me some
feedback or even some new data to add.
cowtown @ spamcop.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now I want to tin the ends of the cables I made, my 74W soldering iron is
too light, but the torch is too much and causes the ends to tarnish and
oxidize. I have read about DIY solder pots.
My idea is to get a 4" diameter pipe 2" long, weld it to a 1/2" slab of
steel and put it on a portable hotplate. Then I can get bar solder (50/50?)
from the plumbing shop. Will this work?
Any tips on how to properly tin the ends? Flux etc.
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Now, substitute their Slimcell batteries in the Force. Ignoring their
> physical size and just using the weight, 370.5 Kg of Slimcells at their
> current capacity of 300 Wh/kg would have a capacity of 111150 watt
> hours. At 200 watt hours per mile, that is a range of 555.75 miles. Even
> allowing for the same 70% limit the current batteries have, that would
> still be a range of 389 miles.
It occurs to me that LiPoly batteries might be just the ticket to make
battery exchange stations a viable idea. The main problem with battery
exchange in the past was trying to figure out a simple, safe, and
effective way to swap out a 1/2 ton (or more) of batteries.
With high capacity Lithium batteries you could have a range of 100-200
miles from a pack that only weighs 200lbs.
Instead of having one large swappable pack, you could go with small 25 lb
modules (most people can lift 25lbs). You could have a hatch on the
side/rear/front of the vehicle where the batteries can pop out like PEZ.
With a spare set of batteries at home, sitting on a drop in charger, you
could manually swap the pack in less than 2 minutes.
Service stations could have a simple conveyer system that attaches to the
hatch and rolls out the old modules and then (after swiping a credit/debit
card) feeds in a fresh set of charged modules.
Total time including credit authorization, less than a minute. Let's see
a gasoline powered car top that.
Batteries get charged during off peak hours and the modules could be
tested for capacity with the stinkers sidelined for rebuilding.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That would but it seems like a lot of trouble. I use a little cast
iron soup pot, the type that some restaurants use to serve single
servings of soup or beans in. It's about 4" in diameter, probably 2"
deep with a rounded bottom and some little legs cast in to make it sit
steady. I normally heat it on one of those el-cheapo single burner
electric eyes that you can buy at WallyWorld for $10 or so. It also
works well with a Coleman stove.
I know that Lodge casts these things so you might look at wherever
Lodge cast iron things are sold.
Another thing that works is a cast iron plumber's ladle. These things
seem to be anywhere antiques or junque are sold. I used one before I
got my bean pot. I cut the handle off so I had just the bowl. I cut
a square of metal maybe 1.5" square, drilled a 1/2" hole in the
center, positioned that at the bottom of the bowl and plug welded it
to the ladle with my MIG welder. Theoretically welding steel to cast
iron doesn't work too well but this stuck good enough to last for
years. The square is just big enough to make the thing sit steady on
the Coleman stove while not shielding the bowl from the flame.
I should also mention that I've purchased several authentic solder
pots at hamfests for trivial prices. Like $20 for a pot filled with
solder. Compared to my homemade ones it heats slowly but the conical
top does present a nice solder surface. It does have the advantage of
a thermostat so that I don't have to monitor it all the time.
John
On Sat, 26 Feb 2005 08:24:25 -0800, "Don Cameron"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Now I want to tin the ends of the cables I made, my 74W soldering iron is
>too light, but the torch is too much and causes the ends to tarnish and
>oxidize. I have read about DIY solder pots.
>
>My idea is to get a 4" diameter pipe 2" long, weld it to a 1/2" slab of
>steel and put it on a portable hotplate. Then I can get bar solder (50/50?)
>from the plumbing shop. Will this work?
>
>Any tips on how to properly tin the ends? Flux etc.
>
>thanks
>Don
>
>Victoria, BC, Canada
>
>See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
>www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
>From your battery calculations page:
"
Model volt. Weight Pkrt's lngth width height 20-hour
T-875 8 63 1.25 10.38 7.13 11.19 150
T-890 8 69 1.14 10.38 7.13 11.19 165 "
Corrections for the T-875 and T-890 batteries:
They are both only 10.875" in height
Their 20-hour rate is 170ah for the T-875 and 190ah for the T-890
(according to the numbers currently on Trojan's website).
-Nick
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
--------------------------------------------------------
On Sat, 2005-02-26 at 10:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> << what was the web site for the calculator again
> thanks steve clunn >>
>
> http://www.geocities.com/hempev/EVCalculator.html - feel free to give me some
> feedback or even some new data to add.
>
> cowtown @ spamcop.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 2-speed rear ends; There used to be "overdrive" units available for
many manual transmission vehicles. This is a small gearbox that goes in
the drive shaft. The one I had was made by Borg Warner and came from a
1965 Studebaker. It was about 10" long and 4-5" in diameter. Instead of
the drive shaft going from transmission to differential, the overdrive
was mounted halfway between, and two shorter drive shafts with universal
joints connected to its input and output.
It has an electric clutch that shifts it between 1:1 and 0.8:1 (output
shaft faster than input shaft), and could be shifted under power. The
only "catch" would be to find one with a large enough ratio to be
useful. Also, as I recall direct drive works in forward and reverse, but
overdrive free-wheels in reverse.
As for how to connect a motor with no transmission:
My second EV was direct drive. I had a 5.17:1 Dana differential, mounted
to the frame between the front wheels. It connected to the front wheels
with CV-joints in normal FWD fashion (the parts were from a Saab 96).
The yoke on the pinion that normally bolted to a universal joint was
removed. My adapter plate was a cast aluminum bell housing that was
bolted to the differential with 4 bolts around the pinion. My motor was
an aircraft generator, which has an unusual splined shaft. I got a
coupler to fit that spline; it was basically a thick-walled piece of
pipe about 1.5" diameter and 4" long.
The yoke removed from the pinion was turned down to fit inside the motor
coupler, and pressed in place. There was also a key, just to be sure. To
assemble it, the yoke+adapter was placed on the pinion splines, a nut
was screwed onto the end of the pinion shaft thru the open end of the
coupler, and the motor was then bolted to the adapter plate.
The bell housing adapter plate was intended for an ICE with its usual
clutch and flywheel, and so was much bigger than my motor. I added
several aluminum spacers to connect the motor's bolt circle to the bell
housing.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The CitiCar/ComutaCar/ComutaVans were all made with welded aluminum
frames and battery boxes. There are lots of them still around to see how
this technique holds up.
My ComutaVan was 20 years old when I sold it. The battery boxes were
about 0.1" thick aluminum sheet, seam welded in the corners. They were
still solid and working fine. The main problem was that everywhere they
had used a steel bolt to attached the battery boxes to the frame, there
was ferocious aluminum corrosion.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myself and my friend Jordan have been having trouble with the local
authorities pulling over our electric board scooters and telling us they are
illegal to be on the road. In 2003 our state legislature passed Senate Bill
5450 legalizing neighborhood electric vehicles and motorized foot scooters.
There are very few of the scooters here in Port Townsend and it appears that
the state did not do a good job of educating the state and local police.
Well I am very happy to say that the scooter wars are over. I am enclosing a
letter you may enjoy reading as you probably will never see another one like
this from a chief of police. Not only is our chief very intelligent and
creative, she is also gorgeous. Now the next step is to get her to endorse
changing the definition of motorzed foot scooters to allow up to 20 inch
wheels. This will take away the gray area of eGo electric scooters and make
them legal within our city limits.
For your viewing pleasure:
Date: Wednesday 23 February 2005 16:49
From: "Kristen Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Jordan Peterson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Jordan,
I've been a bit swamped but haven't forgotten you. From the officers I've
spoken to since we've started this dialogue, the manner in which you ride
your scooter sounds legal and correct - so unless I'm missing something
here, we do owe you a very sincere apology. Trust me, there is no hidden
agenda here. I hope you can forgive the misinterpretation on our part.
I am sorry for the inconvenience and frustration this has caused you. I
still intend to include you in the ongoing dialogue with Roderick as we
continue to try to find ways to make this work.
Kristen
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 2/25/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
>
> Here is what I have come up with:
> http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/images/BatteryStraps.JPG
>
> Since I cannot find any connectors commercially available (locally anyways)
> with 1/4" stud, I used Victor's suggestion of braided cable with crimped
> copper pipe on either end. The braid goes through the entire pipe, so when
> they are bolted to the batteries this will ensure a good solid connection,
> but still allow flex.
Don, since you are making your own interconnects from unusual materials,
and haven't done any resistance calculations, you need to *measure* the
actual resistance of your interconnects. It doesn't matter how cheap
they were, or how easy to make, or how nice they look. What matters is
their performance!
Connect a couple batteries in series with one. Connect a charger or load
to charge or discharge the two batteries in series at some known
current. Measure the voltage drop from battery post-to-post. Calculate
the resistance with Ohm's law; Ohms = Volts / Amps.
If you expect to draw 100s of amps, the resistance had better be less
than 0.01 ohm. At 100 amps, a 0.01 ohm connection produces P = I^2 x R =
100^2 x 0.01 = 100 watts of heat! If you expect to hit 1000 amps, your
connection resistance had better be under 0.0001 ohms!
For reference, a "normal" inter-battery jumper made with 6" of #00 cable
and copper terminals crimped on each end, connected to automotive type
battery posts will have a resistance around 0.002 ohms.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
