EV Digest 4170
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Peukerts for LI-Poly (was Re: Additional outside funding)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Etek, Dual ETek and ADC 6.7 Regen..Re: Comet CVT/Torque converters in a
lightweight ev?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Tire pressure for lower rolling resistance?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
4) Charging Terminology
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: PM w/ separate lead for each brush?
by Michael Shipway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: AC Bandsaw Motor Question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Charging Terminology
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Electric boat controls
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Candidate for conversion.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: 9" ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Amanda's EV Workshop and Potluck.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan wrote:
> I was under the impression that at high rates PbA will only deliver
> a fraction of it's lower rate nameplate capacity. After such a
> high rate discharge you can't lower the rate and get the other half
> of its capacity out because it's lost due to Puckerts.
Ah, but you CAN! Suppose a lead-acid battery delivers 100ah at the
20-hour rate. And at the 1-hour rate, it only delivers 50ah. This is the
point where the voltage under load has fallen to 1.75v/cell.
But... now connect a load resistor that will take 19 more hours to reach
a total of 100ah. You'll find that the battery will happily deliver
(almost) this many amphours. Now it will fall to 1.75v/cell under load
at around 95 amphours total.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sounds like a comet isn't the way to go. My 3 wheeler, if I ever find
reasonably priced front wheels, will be about 600lbs loaded with driver and
batteries. I want to drive the rear wheel with a belt and originaly thought of
the Etek because even two would fit and the advanced wouldn't, plus it could
potentially give regen and some extra braking power.
My concern with a single ETek is I won't have enough power from start or my top
end speed will be too low and then of course the ETek overheating. If I needed
to though I think I could get a second ETek to help with the low end. I'd
probably have to change something for the reverse rotation but I saw an image
of it in use that way so I'm pretty sure it can be done. Is regen on the ETek
worth the expense of two controllers or am I better off with a single non regen
controller which could handle both which would be 1/2 (single etek and a single
controller) to 1/4 (dual etek/dual controller) the price of millipak(s)?
Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Tim Medeck wrote:
> My Freeway has a comet torque converter. It turns at all RPM,
> but the cones don't start to close until 800 RPM. It works
> okay for forward, but reverse stinks because the cones don't
> close when you reverse the rotation of the converter.
There must be something assymetrical about this torque converter. It was
probably designed for an ICE, which only ran in one direction.
You don't really need it to "disconnect" below 800 motor rpm in an EV.
See you you can adjust or shim it so it stays coupled, so reverse will
work better.
Or, get rid of the whole thing. The Freeway system never did work very
well. Bob Schneeviess modified a Freeway to use a fixed-speed cogged
belt, and it worked much better.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Patrick Maston wrote:
> Both the tires I have to choose from have the same maximum weight
> rating: 1047 lbs. , do I want the one that takes 51PSI @ 1047 lbs, or the one
that
> takes 44PSI @1047 lbs?
Try http://www.greenseal.org/recommendations/CGR_LowTireResistance.pdf - but the
data is now somewhat out of date.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What does the following stand for when referring to a battery charging
algorithm?
I1, I2, U, I3a
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Navas
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:56 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Bendy batteries: the MIT Slimcell
Jay writes:
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0%2C13026%2C1423451%2C00.html
Paul writes:
>>Another new cell design, giving 250 wh/kg:
>>http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/03/bendy_batteries.php
Sadoway's cells are interesting. As I recall, they have higher than
250 in the lab and are aiming at 400wh/kg. The thing is, though, that
in attempting to create a battery that is cheap to manufacture (or
mayhaps for other reasons), they've foregone Co. LiVOx suffers from
low-rate, and the best they've done is get 1.6C out of it. You'd need to
have some kind of assist to put this in an EV.
Voltaflex is attempting to make them using a roll-2-roll, which should
make them pretty affordable. Assuming they are successful. Take
a peek at:
http://www.voltaflex.com/tech.wp.html
-Dave
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I might be interested in a getting in on group buy, But I am in Fresno Ca
I can recieve via truck at work(dock and forklift) if we want to recieve
in fresno and distribute from here :-)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:37 AM -0800 3-9-05, Lee Hart wrote:
If I recall correctly, the 914 has the "old fashioned" front-rear engine
crankshaft orientation; the shaft of the motor runs front-rear. The
engine, transmission, and differential are all mounted together as one
unit. Therefore, there is no rotational torque reaction from the motor,
as there would be if the engine was mounted separately from the
differential or transaxle. You don't have to worry about the entire
motor/transmission/differential unit trying to rotate left-right in the
car.
What you *do* have to worry about is that the entire
motor/transmission/differential assembly is connected to the wheels, and
will try to rotate in the opposite direction as the wheels. This is the
full wheel torque, which is multiplied by the gear ratio. The electric
motor's torque is bad enough -- but multiply this by 5-10 with the
transmission and differential, and you have an *astounding* amount of
torque!
Thus, you need an extremely strong set of mounts to resist this torque.
A conventional car engine, with its massively strong block, is well able
to handle this torque. But the end bell of an electric motor is not
nearly strong enough, except for fairly wimpy low-power EVs.
I worried a bit about this when I built my 914. I think most will
agree that mine is not a "wimpy" EV since it almost lifts the front
wheels off the ground when accelerating. I do use the motors to carry
the torque of the system. Though in my setup I have two motors in a
box sharing the lifting load.
Pictures here:
http://evcl.com/914/bigday/photos/IM0018.jpg
and here is the stock 914 mount on my electric motor.
http://evcl.com/914/bigday/photos/IM0019.jpg
It held up fine like that for a few years, but last year at Woodburn
the rubber 914 mounts just couldn't take the torque anymore and they
separated. For those of you who were there, you may remember the
awful sound of the motors slamming up against the firewall during
launch and when shifting form series to parallel.
The day after Woodburn, John Wayland and I crawled under the car in
his shop to have a look. With a jack pushing up on the motor, this is
what we saw:
http://evcl.com/914/Pics/914MountBroken.JPG
In that picture it's easy to see where the solid rubber mount has
separated under tension. The 914 mounts originally do not have a
steel backup to hold them together since the ICE engine usually won't
stress them with only 120 ft*lb.
So, a short trip to a fantastic hardware store later plus a little
drilling and cutting of rubber we soon had this:
http://evcl.com/914/Pics/914MoutnFixed.JPG
The new mounts with grade 8 bolts holding it all together have held
up fine to 1000+ft*lb starts since then and at no time have the end
bells of the motors shown signs of stress.
So out of all that I've come to respect the strength available in
stock ADC end bells. I find it helpful to avoid concentrating on the
bolt shear strength and instead look at all the large flat areas of
contact that are spreading the loads on the end bell to main body of
the motor. I suspect that is where the real strength comes from.
Have fun!
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Otmar wrote:
Were you driving when it blew? If yes then what did you set your
Low Battery Voltage cutback to?
Low battery voltage is set to 110 volts. Note that the batteries
sagged down to this voltage a few times before (when I was using the
Raptor) and it never caused any problems with the DC/DC
Is your DC-DC wired so it is always on, 100% of the time, or does
it have it's own relay for turning it on?
It was wired to always be on (set the LV pot to 13.2 volts). When
the ignition was on, the DC/DC would then kick up to the HV pot
setting (which was 14.4 volts).
So this morning I replaced the input fuse again. The DC/DC came up
to the proper voltage and held there for about 30 seconds. Then,
without the least bit of warning, *large sparks* flew out of the
front of the unit, and the input fuse blew again! I disassembled the
unit expecting to see huge zorch marks or something but saw nothing.
There is no evidence of anything gone wrong. But now my DC/DC is as
DEAD as a dead DC/DC gets. It will NOT power up at all. Mark looked
at it and I'm afraid he is right in thinking that it was the MOSFETs
in the unit that blew up. As the chips are not visible without
separating the heatsink from the control board, I haven't looked at
them yet. All I know is that something went ZORCH and yet everything
mounted to the top of the control board looks fine.
Ughhh... what terrible terrible timing for my DC/DC to blow up. The
weather is finally good outside this week so I could be driving the
Cherokee everyday, but the little hawker 12 volt battery just can't
power the 12 volt system by itself.
I guess I need to look for a new DC/DC converter (I really want one
that outputs at least 50 amps)...
Hi Nick,
I'm sorry to hear about the failure of your DC-DC.
I don't see any way that the Zilla could have contributed to its
demise. But you never know, I may be missing something.
It does sound like you were running the DC-DC at its limit quite a
bit, with the power steering and a undersized SLI battery. In my
experience those units don't have very rugged protection circuits, so
it is not very surprising to me that it blew.
Since you are running power steering, I would suggest a DC-DC of at
least 50 amps, and 75 would be a normal amount. Plus, you should have
a good surge battery. I used a Optima yellow top when I was running
power steering.
And yes, I too wish that I had a DC-DC to offer for EVs, but so far I
have not had the time to finish a design of one that would meet my
standards.
I think the IOTA supplies deserve some more research, as well as the
Kepco RKW series which claim to have a square current limit cutback.
They may make a very good and low cost high input voltage DC-DC.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Michael Shipway wrote:
I just encountered a new thing. A small (2 hp) DC permanent
magnet motor with 4 power leads, 2 red and 2 black. I determined
that each lead connected to only one of the 4 brushs, with no
internal connections between opposing brushs.
Question is, why are there 4 leads instead of 2?
Under what circumstances would you want to connect it differently?
There are several ways to wind a motor's armature. Some only require 2
brushes for a 4-pole motor; others require all 4. But they almost always
provide 4 brushes, just for reasons of symmetry and balance. You then
connect the opposite pairs in parallel, just as you've described
(red-red, and black-black). Having 4 wires has the minor advantage of
increasing the symmetry by having exactly the same resistance for each
brush.
Thanks, this sound like it.
The 2 red leads had less than 1/2 Ohm between them (which is pushing the
useful range on my Ohm meter)
When I remove one of the red bushes, there was no measureable connection
between the red leads.
Also, I can see thru the vent and brush holes that there is a single
commutator, so it's not a rotary converter.
Or, it is possible that you have a rotary converter, with two *isloated*
pairs of windings. If this is the case, it will have *two* commutators.
And, an ohmmter would tell you that the two pairs of wires are *not*
connected.
It may also be a servomotor, where precision speed control was a design
goal. For this, one pair of wires is for power, and the other just to
sense the back emf externally without the voltage drop caused by the
brushes.
I would think that the sense wires would be smaller, like on a current
shunt, on this they are all the same, approx 10-12 gage.
Mike Shipway
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would be interested in 250 or 500 cells, gotta "do the math"
--
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Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.3 - Release Date: 3/7/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There are a couple of types of 3 phase converters, the cap banks that
result in a loss of power some solid state units that are $$$ that
recreate 3 balanced phases and the best in my opinion, the 3 phase
rotary converter. True sign wave and surprisingly efficient. My bosses
dad has a garage shop and the rotary converter is outside under the
eave of the house, it is started with an additional lightswitch from the
inside.
type in Rotary converter in ebay and found 86 listings from 40HP to
5HP $1500 to $300
one thought, if you buy the smallest one now, you may end up buying
another later :-)
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What does the following stand for when referring to a battery
> charging algorithm?
>
> I1, I2, U, I3a
I = constant current; when there is more than one constant current
phase, numbers are used to distinguish between them.
U = constant voltage (same deal with the numbers, though in this case
there are none)
a = automatic termination of the phase (that is the phase does not
continue until the charger is manually turned off).
The sequence listed translates to a two-step constant current charge
followed by a constant voltage phase, and concluding with a third
constant current phase that terminates automatically.
For what it is worth:
W = constant power
I don't recall offhand what a lower-case 'o' indicates (it would appear
in place of the 'a')...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy,
maybe this is what you need: http://www.kraeutler.at/zubehoer_e.htm
I hve no idea about the prices but have been thinking about getting one
of those for my own boat.
Roy LeMeur wrote:
Additionally on this subject...
Many builders are starting from scratch (and/or need it to be
ridiculously simple) and want something all in one unit that doesn't
have to be assembled.
It would be possible to use outboard (Teleflex) controls but certainly,
some assembly required. I don't know if the Kräutler controls work with
anything else than a contoller that accepts pot control with center
zero, i.e. without contactor for reverse. An outboard control could be
used by rigging the gear shift to the reversing contactor.
Pekka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Just to clarify again: Yes, my DC/DC is now 100% DEAD. After it shot
sparks, that was the end of it, period. Though, upon inspecting it, Mark
and I could not find any signs of damage at all. That is very strange.
> I don't see any way that the Zilla could have contributed to its
> demise. But you never know, I may be missing something.
Once again, I'm not blaming the Zilla, Otmar... but it is rather strange
that I NEVER had any problems with the DC/DC blowing its input fuse
PRIOR to installing the Zilla. Maybe just a bad coincidence? or?
> Since you are running power steering, I would suggest a DC-DC of at
> least 50 amps, and 75 would be a normal amount.Plus, you should have
> a good surge battery.
I too really want a 50+ amp DC/DC. When I was buying components, I
couldn't find anyone who made one that could handle up to 210 volts
input. IMO, The Hawker AGM I have does an excellent job handling high
current surges. It just can't do so for very long as it is only 16ah. I
really don't want to put something as heavy as a Yellow top in their...
Basically, I've got to find a new DC/DC converter or see if I can get
the DCP one fixed (sure hope I can as it wasn't a cheap unit). What I
_really_ want to do is design/build my own, because I enjoy working with
electronics. However, I have little experience with power electronics,
so I need to do more homework before I can design a circuit. I'm going
to start working with some flyback converter circuits and see what I can
come up with. But in the mean time, I've got to get a working DC/DC in
the Jeep so I can get it back on the road.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:00 PM 3/9/2005, Nick Viera wrote:
I too really want a 50+ amp DC/DC. When I was buying components, I
couldn't find anyone who made one that could handle up to 210 volts input.
IMO, The Hawker AGM I have does an excellent job handling high current
surges. It just can't do so for very long as it is only 16ah. I really
don't want to put something as heavy as a Yellow top in their...
Hmm, how about a PFC-50 turned down to minimum output voltage... :-)
Kinda pricey for the work though.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
men, trust me you are going to be disapointed !
this cells are not for EV use, their watering can't be centralized and it's
not something you want to make every week not even every month...
i have to water 31 cells on the race scooter, hopefuly ultra low servicing
type cells and i definitely would not consider making this on more and
standard servicing cells.
yes you can undercharge them to obtain low water consumption but you will
quickly unbalance the pack and loose range...they need overcharge to be in
good state.
just my 30ml of demineralized water opinion
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 12:18 AM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
> I would be interested in 250 or 500 cells, gotta "do the math"
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.3 - Release Date: 3/7/2005
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
why not using a cheap 350W or more PC power supply to learn, it's a simple
design, i have modified few to obtain between 12 and 24V with variable
curent from 1 to more than 20A solid (2 fans help a lot :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:00 AM
Subject: Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
> Hi,
>
> Just to clarify again: Yes, my DC/DC is now 100% DEAD. After it shot
> sparks, that was the end of it, period. Though, upon inspecting it, Mark
> and I could not find any signs of damage at all. That is very strange.
>
> > I don't see any way that the Zilla could have contributed to its
> > demise. But you never know, I may be missing something.
>
> Once again, I'm not blaming the Zilla, Otmar... but it is rather strange
> that I NEVER had any problems with the DC/DC blowing its input fuse
> PRIOR to installing the Zilla. Maybe just a bad coincidence? or?
>
> > Since you are running power steering, I would suggest a DC-DC of at
> > least 50 amps, and 75 would be a normal amount.Plus, you should have
> > a good surge battery.
>
> I too really want a 50+ amp DC/DC. When I was buying components, I
> couldn't find anyone who made one that could handle up to 210 volts
> input. IMO, The Hawker AGM I have does an excellent job handling high
> current surges. It just can't do so for very long as it is only 16ah. I
> really don't want to put something as heavy as a Yellow top in their...
>
> Basically, I've got to find a new DC/DC converter or see if I can get
> the DCP one fixed (sure hope I can as it wasn't a cheap unit). What I
> _really_ want to do is design/build my own, because I enjoy working with
> electronics. However, I have little experience with power electronics,
> so I need to do more homework before I can design a circuit. I'm going
> to start working with some flyback converter circuits and see what I can
> come up with. But in the mean time, I've got to get a working DC/DC in
> the Jeep so I can get it back on the road.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. wrote:
>
> Hmm, how about a PFC-50 turned down to minimum output voltage... :-)
> Kinda pricey for the work though.
Or how about a PFC-xx modified from the "factory" into a DC/DC?
-
xx=any number
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:50 PM 9/03/05 -0600, you wrote:
John G. wrote:
>
> Hmm, how about a PFC-50 turned down to minimum output voltage... :-)
> Kinda pricey for the work though.
Or how about a PFC-xx modified from the "factory" into a DC/DC?
-
xx=any number
One problem: Isolation! (or lack thereof).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What are the physical dimensions of these batteries?
I searched but couldn't find anything.
Thank's
Rod
--- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ORIG SPECS-
> http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf ,
> look for item 20
>
> 20. Battery, Storage:
> SAFT AMERICA INC.
> P/N 017371-000
> Nickel Cadmium aircraft battery.
> MSDS: CFCTF, SC0400 4266UAA4.
> NSN 6140-00-881-6887
> DEMIL CODE A
> CONTACT: GWEN CHERRY PHONE: 804-279-6206
> Inside - H050110A0
> Boxes on 6 banded wooden pallets.
> Unused - Containers in good condition
> Total Cost - $249664.00
> Est Total Wt - 32096 lbs.
> DOT HAZ CLASS: 8
> 236 PACKAGE
>
> as per Tim Humphrey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> They are 1.2 volts and 34ah per cell.
> The cells used are 9 13/32 inches high, 3 9/64
> inches wide, and 1
> 25/64 inches deep. Each cell weighs
> approximately 3 1/2 pounds
>
> So I worked up a 300 cell pallet size using the
> follow numbers per cell - 9.5h x 3.25w x 1.75d
> 300 x 3.5 lbs = 1050 lbs + 25lb for pallet = 1075lbs
> 300 cells = 12 rows x 25 cells
> = 39" x 43.75" x 9.5 " high, which
> leaves room for wooden sides on a 48 square pallet.
>
> rate as per freightquote.com is $514.67 by
> Carrier Name: OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE
> Terminal City: SYRACUSE, NY
> Terminal Phone: 315.463.0029
>
> This would be to 85736 with no lift gate required, I
> then added the lift gate (residence del) and got
> $680.
>
> I've written Tim to ask how he plans to reship them.
> From the orig specs it seems that they come in
> containers. Are they the same alum containers that
> Philippe showed us
>
>
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
> ? If so then it makes sense to get them in groups of
> 20 like in the photo, which would ease his repacking
> process.
>
> I want 300 cells, so anybody in my area that wants
> some, let me know and we can get them shipped
> together. Or if feasable I can join the SoCal group
> and pick them up there, or even pick up mine and
> somebody elses shipment. Let me know on or off list.
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release
> Date: 3/8/2005
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James Massey wrote:
John G. wrote:
Hmm, how about a PFC-50 turned down to minimum output voltage... :-)
Kinda pricey for the work though.
One problem: Isolation! (or lack thereof).
Yes, I'd imagine that a non-isolated DC/DC would be pretty unsafe... and
as much as I like the PFC chargers, I certainly wouldn't want another
green box the size of my PFC-30 onboard. I'm lugging around enough
weight as is ;-)
Philippe Borges wrote:
> why not using a cheap 350W or more PC power supply to learn, it's a
> simple design, i have modified few to obtain between 12 and 24V with
> variable curent from 1 to more than 20A solid (2 fans help a lot :^)
This is a good idea. Since I've got some old computers lying around, I
have some power supplies which aren't being used, that I can play with.
About now you've probably realized I'm a bit of a computer geek ;-)
Anyways, my only concern is what is the maximum voltage I can use the
supplies with if I have them set on 120 volts? My pack voltage is 160
volts nominal, so the pack tends to go between 110-210 volts. It is the
210 volts I'm worried about putting into a 120 volt nominal power supply.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The dimensions I have are 3 1/16" by 1 1/8" on top, and 9 1/4" tall. I
don't have one to measure but I believe this is to the top of the cap.
--chris
Rod Hower said:
> What are the physical dimensions of these batteries?
> I searched but couldn't find anything.
> Thank's
> Rod
> --- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> ORIG SPECS-
>> http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf ,
>> look for item 20
>>
>> 20. Battery, Storage:
>> SAFT AMERICA INC.
>> P/N 017371-000
>> Nickel Cadmium aircraft battery.
>> MSDS: CFCTF, SC0400 4266UAA4.
>> NSN 6140-00-881-6887
>> DEMIL CODE A
>> CONTACT: GWEN CHERRY PHONE: 804-279-6206
>> Inside - H050110A0
>> Boxes on 6 banded wooden pallets.
>> Unused - Containers in good condition
>> Total Cost - $249664.00
>> Est Total Wt - 32096 lbs.
>> DOT HAZ CLASS: 8
>> 236 PACKAGE
>>
>> as per Tim Humphrey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> They are 1.2 volts and 34ah per cell.
>> The cells used are 9 13/32 inches high, 3 9/64
>> inches wide, and 1
>> 25/64 inches deep. Each cell weighs
>> approximately 3 1/2 pounds
>>
>> So I worked up a 300 cell pallet size using the
>> follow numbers per cell - 9.5h x 3.25w x 1.75d
>> 300 x 3.5 lbs = 1050 lbs + 25lb for pallet = 1075lbs
>> 300 cells = 12 rows x 25 cells
>> = 39" x 43.75" x 9.5 " high, which
>> leaves room for wooden sides on a 48 square pallet.
>>
>> rate as per freightquote.com is $514.67 by
>> Carrier Name: OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE
>> Terminal City: SYRACUSE, NY
>> Terminal Phone: 315.463.0029
>>
>> This would be to 85736 with no lift gate required, I
>> then added the lift gate (residence del) and got
>> $680.
>>
>> I've written Tim to ask how he plans to reship them.
>> From the orig specs it seems that they come in
>> containers. Are they the same alum containers that
>> Philippe showed us
>>
>>
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
>> ? If so then it makes sense to get them in groups of
>> 20 like in the photo, which would ease his repacking
>> process.
>>
>> I want 300 cells, so anybody in my area that wants
>> some, let me know and we can get them shipped
>> together. Or if feasable I can join the SoCal group
>> and pick them up there, or even pick up mine and
>> somebody elses shipment. Let me know on or off list.
>>
>> Rush
>> Tucson AZ
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release
>> Date: 3/8/2005
>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
> Anyways, my only concern is what is the maximum voltage I can use the
> supplies with if I have them set on 120 volts? My pack voltage is 160
> volts nominal, so the pack tends to go between 110-210 volts. It is the
> 210 volts I'm worried about putting into a 120 volt nominal power supply.
Do your power supplies have the voltage selector switch on the back of them?
http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/17-103-460-01.JPG
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
it was in the message....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rod Hower" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:23 PM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
> What are the physical dimensions of these batteries?
> I searched but couldn't find anything.
>> as per Tim Humphrey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> They are 1.2 volts and 34ah per cell.
>> The cells used are 9 13/32 inches high, 3 9/64
>> inches wide, and 1
>> 25/64 inches deep. Each cell weighs
>> approximately 3 1/2 pounds
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 - Release Date: 3/8/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Nick Viera wrote:
Anyways, my only concern is what is the maximum voltage I can use the
supplies with if I have them set on 120 volts? My pack voltage is 160
volts nominal, so the pack tends to go between 110-210 volts. It is the
210 volts I'm worried about putting into a 120 volt nominal power supply.
Do your power supplies have the voltage selector switch on the back of them?
http://images10.newegg.com/productimage/17-103-460-01.JPG
Yes, but that only tells me what NOMINAL voltages they can accept. My
voltage range might be too high for 120 volts Nominal, but too low for
240 volts nominal???
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked on Craigs list in San Francisco. I found many unrusty VDubs.
Quite a few with no motors. LR....
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Candidate for conversion.
At 02:45 PM 3/5/2005, you wrote:
All this talk about converting a Beetle quickly had me looking thru e-bay.
If anyone is serious about doing it soon, take a look at;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4531770563&category=6019
I'ts in Huston, so rust should not be too bad.
It says rear floorboards need replacing. Bad news. This means the
rest of the pan is rusted too.
Never convert a crappy car. Spend a few more bucks and get a car
that you would be proud to drive, just as it is. You are going to spend
thousands of dollars on conversion components and 100's of hours of your
time doing the conversion.
Spend a $1,000 or so and get a nice looking car with a blown
motor. Otherwise, you will spend $3,000 and months of your time making the
"bargain" car look like the car you could have had for $1,000.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just measured the NiCd's in my golf cart, they are
STM-180, 7.5"x10 1/8"x9 1/4", so I could fit 684 cells
in the same area as 6 of my Saft STM-180 batteries, 19
bb-600's per 1 SAFT STM-180.
Looking at the weight 3.2 lbs*19 is 60.8 lbs or 365
lbs of batteries (I have about 300lbs with 6 SAFT's at
36V currently). So thats 820 Volts in series with
34Ahr capacity. Using 1200V IGBT's I could do an AC
induction or BLDC drive to run this cart. 820 Volts
nominal or 920V charged, that's scary!!!. Full charge
voltage would be 1160Vdc!!!. I think it's time to
check out parallel strings for a lower voltage. I
could do 4 parallel strings at 205Vdc nominal, or
230Vdc. This sounds more resonable. Or possibly 16
parallel strings at 57.5Vdc. That's alot of watering
and interconnects!
It should give pretty good range on the golf cart
though!
--- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> The dimensions I have are 3 1/16" by 1 1/8" on top,
> and 9 1/4" tall. I
> don't have one to measure but I believe this is to
> the top of the cap.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> Rod Hower said:
> > What are the physical dimensions of these
> batteries?
> > I searched but couldn't find anything.
> > Thank's
> > Rod
> > --- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> ORIG SPECS-
> >> http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf ,
> >> look for item 20
> >>
> >> 20. Battery, Storage:
> >> SAFT AMERICA INC.
> >> P/N 017371-000
> >> Nickel Cadmium aircraft battery.
> >> MSDS: CFCTF, SC0400 4266UAA4.
> >> NSN 6140-00-881-6887
> >> DEMIL CODE A
> >> CONTACT: GWEN CHERRY PHONE: 804-279-6206
> >> Inside - H050110A0
> >> Boxes on 6 banded wooden pallets.
> >> Unused - Containers in good condition
> >> Total Cost - $249664.00
> >> Est Total Wt - 32096 lbs.
> >> DOT HAZ CLASS: 8
> >> 236 PACKAGE
> >>
> >> as per Tim Humphrey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >> They are 1.2 volts and 34ah per cell.
> >> The cells used are 9 13/32 inches high, 3 9/64
> >> inches wide, and 1
> >> 25/64 inches deep. Each cell weighs
> >> approximately 3 1/2 pounds
> >>
> >> So I worked up a 300 cell pallet size using the
> >> follow numbers per cell - 9.5h x 3.25w x 1.75d
> >> 300 x 3.5 lbs = 1050 lbs + 25lb for pallet =
> 1075lbs
> >> 300 cells = 12 rows x 25 cells
> >> = 39" x 43.75" x 9.5 " high, which
> >> leaves room for wooden sides on a 48 square
> pallet.
> >>
> >> rate as per freightquote.com is $514.67 by
> >> Carrier Name: OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE
> >> Terminal City: SYRACUSE, NY
> >> Terminal Phone: 315.463.0029
> >>
> >> This would be to 85736 with no lift gate
> required, I
> >> then added the lift gate (residence del) and got
> >> $680.
> >>
> >> I've written Tim to ask how he plans to reship
> them.
> >> From the orig specs it seems that they come in
> >> containers. Are they the same alum containers
> that
> >> Philippe showed us
> >>
> >>
> >
>
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
> >> ? If so then it makes sense to get them in groups
> of
> >> 20 like in the photo, which would ease his
> repacking
> >> process.
> >>
> >> I want 300 cells, so anybody in my area that
> wants
> >> some, let me know and we can get them shipped
> >> together. Or if feasable I can join the SoCal
> group
> >> and pick them up there, or even pick up mine and
> >> somebody elses shipment. Let me know on or off
> list.
> >>
> >> Rush
> >> Tucson AZ
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 -
> Release
> >> Date: 3/8/2005
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thus, you need an extremely strong set of mounts to resist this torque.
A conventional car engine, with its massively strong block, is well able
to handle this torque. But the end bell of an electric motor is not
nearly strong enough, except for fairly wimpy low-power EVs. It is only
held on with some very long skinny bolts.
These holes were put in the end bells of the ADC motors SPECIFICALLY to be
used for mounts, because EV suppliers such as ourselves requested
them. That is what they have been used for, for about 15 years now. I
have never, ever heard of a failure because this piece was not strong
enough to do the job. The two mounting pads on the anti-drive end bell are
raised about a half inch from the face of the end bell, specifically to
give enough metal to drill and tap and fasten to, and enough strength. On
a plain end bell, without these pads, you'd get maybe three threads worth
of penetration.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Henceforth all posts about building Amanda's EV will be posted under
"Amanda's EV Workshop and Potluck."
May sounds great.
Lawrence Rhodes.............
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, I was off by a factor of 6!!!!!
What was I thinking? Recalculate below
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just measured the NiCd's in my golf cart, they are
> STM-180, 7.5"x10 1/8"x9 1/4", so I could fit 114
> cells
> in the same area as 6 of my Saft STM-180 batteries,
> 19
> bb-600's per 1 SAFT STM-180.
> Looking at the weight 3.2 lbs*19 is 60.8 lbs or 365
> lbs of batteries (I have about 300lbs with 6 SAFT's
> at
> 36V currently). So thats 136.8 Volts in series with
> 34Ahr capacity. Using 200V MOSFET's I could do an AC
> induction or BLDC drive to run this cart. 140 Volts
> nominal or 160V charged. I think it's time to
> check out parallel strings for a lower voltage. I
> could do 2 parallel strings at 67Vdc nominal.
114 battery interconnects and watering, a big task.
Note: I've had the STM-180's in the golf cart for 7
years and have only watered them once. I can't give a
total milage estimate, but a low current vehicle like
this requires very little watering if you are not
using the full amp-hour capacity of these batteries.
Rod
> --- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> > The dimensions I have are 3 1/16" by 1 1/8" on
> top,
> > and 9 1/4" tall. I
> > don't have one to measure but I believe this is to
> > the top of the cap.
> >
> > --chris
> >
> >
> >
> > Rod Hower said:
> > > What are the physical dimensions of these
> > batteries?
> > > I searched but couldn't find anything.
> > > Thank's
> > > Rod
> > > --- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > >> ORIG SPECS-
> > >> http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5004.pdf
> ,
> > >> look for item 20
> > >>
> > >> 20. Battery, Storage:
> > >> SAFT AMERICA INC.
> > >> P/N 017371-000
> > >> Nickel Cadmium aircraft battery.
> > >> MSDS: CFCTF, SC0400 4266UAA4.
> > >> NSN 6140-00-881-6887
> > >> DEMIL CODE A
> > >> CONTACT: GWEN CHERRY PHONE: 804-279-6206
> > >> Inside - H050110A0
> > >> Boxes on 6 banded wooden pallets.
> > >> Unused - Containers in good condition
> > >> Total Cost - $249664.00
> > >> Est Total Wt - 32096 lbs.
> > >> DOT HAZ CLASS: 8
> > >> 236 PACKAGE
> > >>
> > >> as per Tim Humphrey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > >> They are 1.2 volts and 34ah per cell.
> > >> The cells used are 9 13/32 inches high, 3 9/64
> > >> inches wide, and 1
> > >> 25/64 inches deep. Each cell weighs
> > >> approximately 3 1/2 pounds
> > >>
> > >> So I worked up a 300 cell pallet size using the
> > >> follow numbers per cell - 9.5h x 3.25w x 1.75d
> > >> 300 x 3.5 lbs = 1050 lbs + 25lb for pallet =
> > 1075lbs
> > >> 300 cells = 12 rows x 25 cells
> > >> = 39" x 43.75" x 9.5 " high,
> which
> > >> leaves room for wooden sides on a 48 square
> > pallet.
> > >>
> > >> rate as per freightquote.com is $514.67 by
> > >> Carrier Name: OLD DOMINION FREIGHT LINE
> > >> Terminal City: SYRACUSE, NY
> > >> Terminal Phone: 315.463.0029
> > >>
> > >> This would be to 85736 with no lift gate
> > required, I
> > >> then added the lift gate (residence del) and
> got
> > >> $680.
> > >>
> > >> I've written Tim to ask how he plans to reship
> > them.
> > >> From the orig specs it seems that they come in
> > >> containers. Are they the same alum containers
> > that
> > >> Philippe showed us
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/Aprilia%20Eproject%20001.jpg
> > >> ? If so then it makes sense to get them in
> groups
> > of
> > >> 20 like in the photo, which would ease his
> > repacking
> > >> process.
> > >>
> > >> I want 300 cells, so anybody in my area that
> > wants
> > >> some, let me know and we can get them shipped
> > >> together. Or if feasable I can join the SoCal
> > group
> > >> and pick them up there, or even pick up mine
> and
> > >> somebody elses shipment. Let me know on or off
> > list.
> > >>
> > >> Rush
> > >> Tucson AZ
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> > >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> > >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.0 -
> > Release
> > >> Date: 3/8/2005
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
