Re: Science

2003-01-12 Thread John M
Dear Tim, I am sorry that you did not read my 1st par: Dear Tim, this writing is not about YOU, only addressed to your post. It is about the topic of it. I have no argument with you, maybe you will have with me. And you have. You precisely formulated what I marginally 'shorthanded' writing this

Re: Science

2003-01-12 Thread Tim May
On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 08:50 AM, John M wrote: Dear Tim, I am sorry that you did not read my 1st par: Dear Tim, this writing is not about YOU, only addressed to your post. It is about the topic of it. I have no argument with you, maybe you will have with me. I read and absorbed

RE: Science

2003-01-12 Thread Ben Goertzel
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. --Tim May One frustrating thing is that it seems almost arbitrary *which* unproven extraordinary claims are celebrated with attention and funding. The amount of attention paid to string theory perplexes me, for example. Yes, it's interesting.

Re: Science

2003-01-12 Thread Russell Standish
Your expression complexity-thinking reminded me that I first came across you in a different forum, namely NECSI's complex-science list. Indeed the various terms you quote after that would be more appropriate for that list than the everything list. The everything list was not intended for

Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Tim May
In the interests of doing wild speculation here, which some folks are asking for more of, here's a followup to a discussion we had a few weeks ago: The Fermi Paradox asks the question: If extraterrestrial civilizations are at all common, even at the level of a few dozen per galaxy per galaxy

Re: Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Russell Standish
The key assumption here is whether advanced technological civilisation (such as ourselves) is easy or difficult on the timescale of the age of the universe (10^10 years). Assuming that this is difficult (contra to your comments below), solves the standard Fermi paradox (namely other advanced

Re: Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Hal Finney
Michael Clive Price wrote and widely distributed his Many-Worlds FAQ back in the 90s, and he has a couple of questions that touch on this topic: http://www.hedweb.com/everett/everett.htm#linear Is physics linear? Could we ever communicate with the other worlds?

Re: Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Tim May
On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 05:38 PM, Russell Standish wrote: The key assumption here is whether advanced technological civilisation (such as ourselves) is easy or difficult on the timescale of the age of the universe (10^10 years). Assuming that this is difficult (contra to your comments

Re: Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Russell Standish
Tim May wrote: I made no assumptions of nondifficulty (to use your phrasing). This is in fact why I picked the Thogians a few hundred million light-years from us. Now perhaps you think advanced civilizations are even rarer than in this example, there have not yet been any civilizations

Re: Science

2003-01-12 Thread Hal Finney
Regarding the question of scientific paradigms, the cyclic-universe paper I mentioned a few days ago made an interesting point. The paper may be found at http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0204479. The main author, Paul Steinhardt, is a successful physicist who has done a great deal of original work

Re: Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Tim May
On Sunday, January 12, 2003, at 06:54 PM, Russell Standish wrote: (I'll limit myself to only commenting on the last, and most interesting, point.) This is where I lose your argument. I can't see why an MWI communication capable civilisation should be able to spread throughout our universe any

Re: Many Fermis Revisited

2003-01-12 Thread Russell Standish
Tim May wrote: Imagine what will happen if strong MWI communication happens in our universe, our branch: -- presumably access to all of the manifold knowledge from every universe which has done science, engineering, etc. -- vast amounts of technology (as some universes are ahead