Re: [Factor-talk] Prettyprinting Numbers

[John Benediktsson]

Well, it looks like we have this more or less exact word in
``tools.memory:commas``, and something very close in ``money:format-money``.


On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Alexander Ilin  wrote:

> Hello!
>
> Wow, this is way more general than what I came up with:
>
> ```
> : num>grouped-str ( n -- str )
> number>string  3  "," join reverse ;
> ```
>
> Maybe your code should be included in the prettyprinter or somewhere
> similar, next to `number>string`, perhaps?
>
> 17.06.2017, 02:33, "John Benediktsson" :
>
> Note: that word doesn't work properly for negative numbers.  This is
> better:
>
> : number>string-with-commas ( str -- str' )
> [
> abs number>string "." split1
> [ reverse 3  "," join reverse ] dip
> [ "." glue ] when*
> ] [ neg? [ "-" prepend ] when ] bi ;
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John Benediktsson 
> wrote:
>
> We don't have that kind of locale support right now, but you could use
> something like:
>
> : number>string-with-commas ( str -- str' )
> number>string "." split1
> [ reverse 3  "," join reverse ] dip
> [ "." glue ] when* ;
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Alexander Ilin  wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
>   Is there a standard way to output a number with comma separators
> grouping the thousands?
>
> ```
>   1,000,000 num>str-grouped
>
>   "1,000,000"
> ```
>
> ---=---
>  Александр
>
> 
> --
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>
> 
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>
>
> ---=---
> Александр
>
>
> 
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Re: [Factor-talk] Prettyprinting Numbers

[Alexander Ilin]

You see? It could use some limelight! : ) Also, thanks for pointing out the `tools.memory` vocab. Not only will it provide some insight for me as to the memory use pattern for my DB-heavy apps, but also it uses some juicy words like `object-table.` Too bad those aren't documented, I might have discovered them sooner. By coincidence, I'm developing some UI right now that could use exactly that kind of thing (presenting multiple slots of a tuple). 17.06.2017, 02:47, "John Benediktsson" :Well, it looks like we have this more or less exact word in ``tools.memory:commas``, and something very close in ``money:format-money``.  On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:38 PM, Alexander Ilin  wrote:Hello! Wow, this is way more general than what I came up with: ```: num>grouped-str ( n -- str )    number>string  3  "," join reverse ;``` Maybe your code should be included in the prettyprinter or somewhere similar, next to `number>string`, perhaps? 17.06.2017, 02:33, "John Benediktsson" :Note: that word doesn't work properly for negative numbers.  This is better: : number>string-with-commas ( str -- str' )    [        abs number>string "." split1        [ reverse 3  "," join reverse ] dip        [ "." glue ] when*    ] [ neg? [ "-" prepend ] when ] bi ;   On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John Benediktsson  wrote:We don't have that kind of locale support right now, but you could use something like: : number>string-with-commas ( str -- str' )    number>string "." split1    [ reverse 3  "," join reverse ] dip    [ "." glue ] when* ;   On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Alexander Ilin  wrote:Hello!  Is there a standard way to output a number with comma separators grouping the thousands?```  1,000,000 num>str-grouped  "1,000,000"```---=--- Александр--Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's mostengaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___Factor-talk mailing listFactor-talk@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk,--Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's mostengaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot,___Factor-talk mailing listFactor-talk@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk  ---=---Александр --Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's mostengaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot___Factor-talk mailing listFactor-talk@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk ,--Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's mostengaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot,___Factor-talk mailing listFactor-talk@lists.sourceforge.nethttps://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk  ---=---Александр --
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Re: [Factor-talk] How to introduce factor to java programmers?

[John Benediktsson]

This is GREAT!

I love the topics covered, the step-through approach, and the overall
feeling.  I bet that was a great presentation.

Best,
John.

On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan <
rationalrev...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hello Everyone,
>
> Thank you for your inputs. In the end, I decided to focus on the aspects
> of Factor that I was most amazed by when I first discovered the language
> last year. I presented yesterday, and it was received well. I think I
> kindled the interest of a few people who attended.
>
> The slide I went over are here:
> https://github.com/viswans83/stack-based-languages-presentation
>
> Thanks again,
> Sankar
>
>
> On 6/1/17 4:05 AM, Alexander Ilin wrote:
>
>> John, the question was specifically about the quotation parameter's
>> stack effects in general, i.e. `quot: ( x -- x )` vs. simply `quot` in
>> the parameter lists.
>>
>> My take is that the quotation stack effects are not checked separately
>> on a per-parameter basis, only the word as a whole is checked. So, they
>> are merely for documentation purposes, and may be incorrect with no
>> penalty. From the documentation: "For words that are not inline, only
>> the number of inputs and outputs carries semantic meaning, and effect
>> variables are ignored."
>>
>> http://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-effects.html
>>
>> 01.06.2017, 05:33, "John Benediktsson" :
>>
>>> Well, technically neither ``dip`` nor ``keep`` need those stack
>>> effects, they are inlined which means the non-inline word that
>>> includes them will have it's stack effect checked by the compiler for
>>> correctness.
>>>
>>> There are few reasons why we want to have the ".." variadic stack
>>> effects, and those are useful in the stack-checker and visually for
>>> documentation, but if you removed them and tried to compile a word
>>> that was incorrect, it would give you a worse error message but still
>>> give you an error.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks for the ideas John!
>>>
>>> I have been looking at the collection of talks, and they've been
>>> quite helpful. Your thoughts about discussing "Java like" things
>>> makes a lot of sense and I think contrasting Factor's object
>>> system with Java's should be a nice topic.
>>>
>>> That said, I did run into a question preparing the slides related
>>> to stack-effects. I noticed that some combinators do not specify
>>> stack effects for quotation inputs.
>>>
>>> e.g.
>>> dip  ( x quot -- x )
>>> keep ( ..a x quot: ( ..a x -- ..b ) -- ..b x )
>>>
>>> Why does `dip` not need to specify the quotations stack effect,
>>> but `keep` did? I suspect they also have something to do with the
>>> inline word, but I'm not really sure. Could you explain?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sankar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/30/17 11:47 PM, John Benediktsson wrote:
>>>
>>> We have a few "talks" that were given a number of years ago
>>> (not all
>>> code in them is up to date, but it's mostly good -- if you
>>> have problems
>>> updating the code let me know and I can help):
>>>
>>> https://github.com/factor/factor/tree/master/extra/talks
>>>
>>> https://github.com/slavapestov/boston-lisp-talk
>>>
>>> https://github.com/slavapestov/emerging-langs-talk
>>>
>>> You might find it interesting to discuss "Java-like" things, for
>>> example, interfaces vs protocols:
>>>
>>> public interface Foo {
>>> String a();
>>> int b();
>>> }
>>>
>>>public class FooImpl {
>>> public String a() { return "hello" } ;
>>> public int b() { return 42 } ;
>>> }
>>>
>>> vs a protocol (two generic methods) and a concrete class that
>>> implements
>>> it...
>>>
>>> GENERIC: a ( obj -- a )
>>> GENERIC: b ( obj -- a )
>>>
>>> TUPLE: foo ;
>>> M: foo a "hello" ;
>>> M: foo b 42 ;
>>>
>>> Could also talk about ``SINGLETON:``, so instead of (plus or
>>> minus
>>> thread safety):
>>>
>>> public class Foo {
>>> private static _instance = null;
>>> public static Foo getInstance() {
>>> if ( _instance == null ) { _instance = new Foo() };
>>> return _instance;
>>> }
>>> }
>>>
>>> vs.
>>>
>>> SINGLETON: foo
>>>
>>> So, touching on code generation and higher level concepts.
>>>
>>> Maybe macros might be interesting?
>>>
>>> Some other ideas from my blog, not sure of your audience's
>>> interest:
>>>
>>>
>>> https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2009/08/calculating-with-ebnf
>>> 

Re: [Factor-talk] How to introduce factor to java programmers?

[Alexander Ilin]

I totally agree, the presentation is VERY COOL!Great visual style, great accent on the details in small steps, great topics covered, no clutter. The only minor criticism is the use of the word "breath" instead of "width". If it wasn't some intentional joke, I would at least fix the typo in "brea_d_th". I starred and bookmarked the repo. If I need to show off Factor to someone, that'd be a great starting point. Thank you! 17.06.2017, 03:21, "John Benediktsson" :This is GREAT! I love the topics covered, the step-through approach, and the overall feeling.  I bet that was a great presentation. Best,John. On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 5:09 PM, Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan  wrote:Hello Everyone,Thank you for your inputs. In the end, I decided to focus on the aspects of Factor that I was most amazed by when I first discovered the language last year. I presented yesterday, and it was received well. I think I kindled the interest of a few people who attended.The slide I went over are here:https://github.com/viswans83/stack-based-languages-presentationThanks again,SankarOn 6/1/17 4:05 AM, Alexander Ilin wrote:John, the question was specifically about the quotation parameter'sstack effects in general, i.e. `quot: ( x -- x )` vs. simply `quot` inthe parameter lists.My take is that the quotation stack effects are not checked separatelyon a per-parameter basis, only the word as a whole is checked. So, theyare merely for documentation purposes, and may be incorrect with nopenalty. From the documentation: "For words that are not inline, onlythe number of inputs and outputs carries semantic meaning, and effectvariables are ignored."http://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-effects.html01.06.2017, 05:33, "John Benediktsson" :Well, technically neither ``dip`` nor ``keep`` need those stackeffects, they are inlined which means the non-inline word thatincludes them will have it's stack effect checked by the compiler forcorrectness.There are few reasons why we want to have the ".." variadic stackeffects, and those are useful in the stack-checker and visually fordocumentation, but if you removed them and tried to compile a wordthat was incorrect, it would give you a worse error message but stillgive you an error.On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan> wrote:    Thanks for the ideas John!    I have been looking at the collection of talks, and they've been    quite helpful. Your thoughts about discussing "Java like" things    makes a lot of sense and I think contrasting Factor's object    system with Java's should be a nice topic.    That said, I did run into a question preparing the slides related    to stack-effects. I noticed that some combinators do not specify    stack effects for quotation inputs.    e.g.    dip  ( x quot -- x )    keep ( ..a x quot: ( ..a x -- ..b ) -- ..b x )    Why does `dip` not need to specify the quotations stack effect,    but `keep` did? I suspect they also have something to do with the    inline word, but I'm not really sure. Could you explain?    Thanks,    Sankar    On 5/30/17 11:47 PM, John Benediktsson wrote:        We have a few "talks" that were given a number of years ago        (not all        code in them is up to date, but it's mostly good -- if you        have problems        updating the code let me know and I can help):            https://github.com/factor/factor/tree/master/extra/talks            https://github.com/slavapestov/boston-lisp-talk            https://github.com/slavapestov/emerging-langs-talk        You might find it interesting to discuss "Java-like" things, for        example, interfaces vs protocols:            public interface Foo {                String a();                int b();            }           public class FooImpl {                public String a() { return "hello" } ;                public int b() { return 42 } ;            }        vs a protocol (two generic methods) and a concrete class that        implements        it...            GENERIC: a ( obj -- a )            GENERIC: b ( obj -- a )            TUPLE: foo ;            M: foo a "hello" ;            M: foo b 42 ;        Could also talk about ``SINGLETON:``, so instead of (plus or minus        thread safety):            public class Foo {                private static _instance = null;                public static Foo getInstance() {                    if ( _instance == null ) { _instance = new Foo() };                    return _instance;                }            }        vs.            SINGLETON: foo        So, touching on code generation and higher level concepts.        Maybe macros might be interesting?        Some other ideas from my blog, not sure of your audience's        interest:        https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2009/08/calculating-with-ebnf.html        https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2010/11/estimating-cpu-speed.html            

[Factor-talk] Prettyprinting Numbers

[Alexander Ilin]

Hello!

  Is there a standard way to output a number with comma separators grouping the 
thousands?

```
  1,000,000 num>str-grouped

  "1,000,000"
```

---=--- 
 Александр

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Re: [Factor-talk] Prettyprinting Numbers

[John Benediktsson]

Note: that word doesn't work properly for negative numbers.  This is better:

: number>string-with-commas ( str -- str' )
[
abs number>string "." split1
[ reverse 3  "," join reverse ] dip
[ "." glue ] when*
] [ neg? [ "-" prepend ] when ] bi ;


On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:29 PM, John Benediktsson  wrote:

> We don't have that kind of locale support right now, but you could use
> something like:
>
> : number>string-with-commas ( str -- str' )
> number>string "." split1
> [ reverse 3  "," join reverse ] dip
> [ "." glue ] when* ;
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 16, 2017 at 4:18 PM, Alexander Ilin  wrote:
>
>> Hello!
>>
>>   Is there a standard way to output a number with comma separators
>> grouping the thousands?
>>
>> ```
>>   1,000,000 num>str-grouped
>>
>>   "1,000,000"
>> ```
>>
>> ---=---
>>  Александр
>>
>> 
>> --
>> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
>> ___
>> Factor-talk mailing list
>> Factor-talk@lists.sourceforge.net
>> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/factor-talk
>>
>
>
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Re: [Factor-talk] How to introduce factor to java programmers?

[Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan]

Hello Everyone,

Thank you for your inputs. In the end, I decided to focus on the aspects 
of Factor that I was most amazed by when I first discovered the language 
last year. I presented yesterday, and it was received well. I think I 
kindled the interest of a few people who attended.


The slide I went over are here:
https://github.com/viswans83/stack-based-languages-presentation

Thanks again,
Sankar


On 6/1/17 4:05 AM, Alexander Ilin wrote:

John, the question was specifically about the quotation parameter's
stack effects in general, i.e. `quot: ( x -- x )` vs. simply `quot` in
the parameter lists.

My take is that the quotation stack effects are not checked separately
on a per-parameter basis, only the word as a whole is checked. So, they
are merely for documentation purposes, and may be incorrect with no
penalty. From the documentation: "For words that are not inline, only
the number of inputs and outputs carries semantic meaning, and effect
variables are ignored."

http://docs.factorcode.org/content/article-effects.html

01.06.2017, 05:33, "John Benediktsson" :

Well, technically neither ``dip`` nor ``keep`` need those stack
effects, they are inlined which means the non-inline word that
includes them will have it's stack effect checked by the compiler for
correctness.

There are few reasons why we want to have the ".." variadic stack
effects, and those are useful in the stack-checker and visually for
documentation, but if you removed them and tried to compile a word
that was incorrect, it would give you a worse error message but still
give you an error.



On Wed, May 31, 2017 at 7:03 PM, Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan
> wrote:

Thanks for the ideas John!

I have been looking at the collection of talks, and they've been
quite helpful. Your thoughts about discussing "Java like" things
makes a lot of sense and I think contrasting Factor's object
system with Java's should be a nice topic.

That said, I did run into a question preparing the slides related
to stack-effects. I noticed that some combinators do not specify
stack effects for quotation inputs.

e.g.
dip  ( x quot -- x )
keep ( ..a x quot: ( ..a x -- ..b ) -- ..b x )

Why does `dip` not need to specify the quotations stack effect,
but `keep` did? I suspect they also have something to do with the
inline word, but I'm not really sure. Could you explain?

Thanks,
Sankar



On 5/30/17 11:47 PM, John Benediktsson wrote:

We have a few "talks" that were given a number of years ago
(not all
code in them is up to date, but it's mostly good -- if you
have problems
updating the code let me know and I can help):

https://github.com/factor/factor/tree/master/extra/talks

https://github.com/slavapestov/boston-lisp-talk

https://github.com/slavapestov/emerging-langs-talk

You might find it interesting to discuss "Java-like" things, for
example, interfaces vs protocols:

public interface Foo {
String a();
int b();
}

   public class FooImpl {
public String a() { return "hello" } ;
public int b() { return 42 } ;
}

vs a protocol (two generic methods) and a concrete class that
implements
it...

GENERIC: a ( obj -- a )
GENERIC: b ( obj -- a )

TUPLE: foo ;
M: foo a "hello" ;
M: foo b 42 ;

Could also talk about ``SINGLETON:``, so instead of (plus or minus
thread safety):

public class Foo {
private static _instance = null;
public static Foo getInstance() {
if ( _instance == null ) { _instance = new Foo() };
return _instance;
}
}

vs.

SINGLETON: foo

So, touching on code generation and higher level concepts.

Maybe macros might be interesting?

Some other ideas from my blog, not sure of your audience's
interest:


https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2009/08/calculating-with-ebnf.html


https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2010/11/estimating-cpu-speed.html

https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/02/simple-rpg.html

https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/04/powers-of-2.html

https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/04/mail-with-gui.html


https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/07/concatenative-thinking.html

https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/07/one-liners.html

https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2011/08/printf.html

https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2012/02/readability.html


https://re-factor.blogspot.com/2012/08/literate-programming.html

Re: [Factor-talk] How to introduce factor to java programmers?

[Sankaranarayanan Viswanathan]

Glad you guys liked it. And, I did not notice that typo until you 
pointed it out - will fix.


Thanks,
Sankar


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