Re: F9 --- F11 server update with preupgrade?

2009-07-16 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Aldo Footluni...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 4:11 PM, Peter Diercksd...@jls-hh.de wrote: Hello List! I am running Fedora 9 on a remote dedicated server leased from a service provider. Access is through SSH. It is a LAMP server with moodle (an

Re: How to get vsftpd working

2009-07-16 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 4:48 PM, Arthur Pembertonpem...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Jul 16, 2009 at 5:59 PM, Ed Landaverilandav...@inbox.com wrote: I would advise you NOT to allow WRITE_ENABLE. If your clients are other *.nix clients you only need scp/sftp or psftp on Windows clients. If you

Re: Ranter or evangelist?

2009-07-21 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Jul 21, 2009 at 4:51 PM, Daviddgbo...@comcast.net wrote: On 7/21/2009 6:52 PM, Craig White wrote: On Wed, 2009-07-22 at 04:20 +0930, Tim wrote: On Tue, 2009-07-21 at 01:23 +0500, gil...@altern.org wrote: I'm sure people who are playing the game of reverse engineering the codecs and

Re: LMV2 boot from another Volume Group?

2009-07-27 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 8:40 PM, Tony Nelsontonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote: I have two hard drives I want to boot from, each with its own LVM2 Volume Group.  I can boot from the one on the same drive as Grub, but not from the other one.  Apparantly, only Logical Volumes from the boot

Re: Open SSH client error

2009-07-27 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sun, Jul 26, 2009 at 5:11 PM, Richard R. Cahiligr.cahi...@gmail.com wrote: Hello, I just installed fedora 11 64bit on our server, the problem is I cannot connect to other Linux server using ssh the error says ssh: connect to host 83.229.64.51 port 22: No route to host. Its strange because

Re: LMV2 boot from another Volume Group?

2009-07-27 Thread Aldo Foot
On Mon, Jul 27, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Tony Nelsontonynel...@georgeanelson.com wrote: On 09-07-27 13:08:33, Aldo Foot wrote: Not sure what you mean by activate. The LVs are treated like any other partition with its filesystem that it's checked at boot time. There is no switch o turn LVs on and off

Re: [Totally OT] Fedora is over - Hannah-Montana-Linux Rules

2009-07-29 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Jul 29, 2009 at 10:04 AM, john wendeljwende...@comcast.net wrote: Seriously (well not really), http://desktoplinuxreviews.com/2009/07/27/hannah-montana-linux/ Regards, John I no longer underestimate what kids can learn these days. I see kids doing things with gadgets I never

Quotas issue - rpcbind: breaks nfs

2009-08-04 Thread Aldo Foot
Although I already have the fix to this question, I'm doing a bit of detective work to find out why rpcbind breaks nfs when quotas are involved. Preliminary notes: 1. as of this posting my system if fully updated (and rebooted) 2. I have not made any changes to /etc/sysconfig/nfs 3. I'm

Re: Quotas issue - rpcbind: breaks nfs

2009-08-04 Thread Aldo Foot
here's what /var/log/messages says. http://pastebin.com/m113355e2 -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines

quotas on nfs share

2009-08-12 Thread Aldo Foot
I cannot enabled quotas over NFS. I spent some time on this and eSearched but I've hit a bump. I have a CentOS 5.3 server with a filesystem configured with quotas. Quotas works locally. I've exported this filesystem to a client. The client is an F11 machine on which I can mount the export, but

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-12 Thread Aldo Foot
I wanted to add the command I use at the client. client mount -t nfs -o rw -o usrquota server:/mnt/p1 /mnt/p1 usrquota is not listed in the mount options. Why? client mount -l | grep p1 server:/mnt/p1 on /mnt/p1 type nfs (rw,addr=xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx) -- fedora-list mailing list

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-12 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 5:38 PM, Sam Varshavchikmr...@courier-mta.com wrote: It seems to me that quotas, if any, would need to be enabled or implemented on the server, and not the client. This client has no clue, of course, if any other client is mounting the same export on the server. Some

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-12 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:08 PM, Sam Varshavchikmr...@courier-mta.com wrote: Aldo Foot writes: . Why don't you try to blow through the user's quota, from the client. I suspect that you'll run into a brick wall, when the user's quota is used up. That works on the server for an account local

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-12 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 6:28 PM, Rick Stevensri...@nerd.com wrote: Aldo Foot wrote: The mount command does have a usrquota mount option. See man page. The man page states that usrquota is only valid for affs, ext2/ext3/ext4, jfs, and xfs filesystems. Hmm... that's a very good observation

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-13 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Chris Adamscmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Once upon a time, Aldo Foot luni...@gmail.com said: I cannot believe that it's not possible to enable nfs quotas *on fedora* at all. I guess this is not done frequently enough to catch people's attention. With NFS, quotas

Re: system-config-printer not authenticating properly

2009-08-13 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Hooker, Jonathanjonathan.hoo...@garmin.com wrote: Hi, I am trying to get system-config-printer to authenticate as a sudo user (one that is a part of the wheel group) instead of the root user when trying to add or modify a printer in fedora 10. I have been

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-13 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 5:08 PM, Chris Adamscmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Once upon a time, Aldo Foot luni...@gmail.com said: From what you say, it appears the only difference is that I have a CentOS server and an F11 client. So far, I've only used remount to enable the quotas on the server. I'll

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-19 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 12, 2009 at 9:25 PM, Chris Adamscmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: ...snip... If you want to edit quotas remotely, you have to use the -r option to edquota.  This also requires adding the -S option to the rpc.rquotad call (in /etc/sysconfig/nfs on Fedora), but only works in rpc.rquotad was

Re: quotas on nfs share

2009-08-19 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 19, 2009 at 4:35 PM, Chris Adamscmad...@hiwaay.net wrote: Once upon a time, Aldo Foot luni...@gmail.com said: ...snip From my f11 box I tested using 'edquota -r' and it does see the nfs export with quotas in it. I tried to edit quotas by entering numbers, but I cannot save

Re: Pam configuration with ldap root user

2009-08-21 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Aug 21, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Guillaume CHARDINguillaume.char...@gmail.com wrote: hi everyone, I hope someone can help me on this... I modify the pam configuration today to accept connection from a  user with uidgid = 0. In /etc/pam.d/system-auth previously have this lines :

Re: GNOME startup, -before- desktop

2009-08-22 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sat, Aug 22, 2009 at 4:09 AM, Marko Vojinovicvvma...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday 22 August 2009 08:20:36 Tim wrote: On Fri, 2009-08-21 at 12:59 -0400, Jud Craft wrote: the FAT32-user limitation is built into GNOME, so that's not going away Why not tweak the /etc/fstab (I believe Ed

Re: shrinking encrypted LVM's

2009-08-25 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 10:17 AM, solarflow99solarflo...@gmail.com wrote: I noticed resize2fs doesn't seem to work on my encrypted LVM, even the GUI tool cant do anything with the underlying filesystem.  Does anyone know what can be done about this?  I want to shrink a volume.   # resize2fs

Re: shrinking encrypted LVM's

2009-08-25 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:07 AM, solarflow99solarflo...@gmail.com wrote: ... thats why i was using resize2fs.  I can't even get the fs down in the first place, before I can lvreduce or lvresize.  The GUI tool doesn't warn you either, I have a bugzilla on that one too.

Re: Removing one drive from a RAID 1 setup?

2009-08-26 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:16 PM, Philip Rhoadesp...@pricom.com.au wrote: People, One of my drives from a software RAID 1 setup on F11 is failing - smartctl shows: sdc  5 Reallocated_Sector_Ct   0x0033   100   100   036    Pre-fail Always -       13 - the last number has been gradually

Re: Yum ??

2009-08-26 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Aug 26, 2009 at 12:57 AM, Aaron Konstamakons...@sbcglobal.net wrote: On Tue, 2009-08-25 at 19:26 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote: On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 19:10:14 -0400 Jim wrote: This command has problems with fedora-updates-testing . Error getting repository data for fedora-updates-testing

Re: raid stripe size vs performance

2009-08-26 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Aug 20, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Phillphanb...@yahoo.com wrote: I'm rebuilding a RHEL 5 server used primarily for building code. It has perc 6i controller and I'm installing 6 15K sas drives. The plan is to setup a raid 10 configuration for improved performance. Does anyone know if I can

Re: Enabling Tabs On Mediawiki

2009-09-04 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Sep 3, 2009 at 7:06 PM, Robert L Cochrancochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: I recently installed mediawiki-1.15.1. I would like to get those nice tabs that you see at the top of this page for Manual, Discussion, etc:

Re: Enabling Tabs On Mediawiki

2009-09-04 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Sep 4, 2009 at 4:53 PM, Robert L Cochrancochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: ...snip... Aldo, thank you for making me aware of this. I'm going to work on installing from the Mediawiki source just as you have. As I want to try to save the one wiki page that I've spent hours working on, I'm

Re: Enabling Tabs On Mediawiki

2009-09-05 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 12:08 AM, Robert L Cochrancochr...@speakeasy.net wrote: Hi Aldo, I figured out the problem and got the beautiful Mediawiki Monobook skin to finally show up, using the Fedora-packaged mediawiki code. The key to solving the problem was constantly checking out

Re: Simple image crop tool?

2009-09-08 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Sep 8, 2009 at 2:36 AM, Valent Turkovicvalent.turko...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, is there some simple image crop tool in Fedora repos? Thanks! I use kview part of the kdegraphics rpm. You have something on the display and draw a square on the portion of the image you want to use. ~af --

Re: FC10 install will not offer 'askmethod'

2009-09-09 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 2:59 PM, Robert Moskowitzr...@htt-consult.com wrote: I am doing yet another install, this time on a Dell SFF with an internal CD. I want to do a network install from my local repo. With older Redhat stuff, I did a 'linux askmethod' at the enter prompt.  I have noticed

Re: snip extraneous quotes from your posts to the list, dammit

2009-09-13 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sun, Sep 13, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Sharpe, Sam J sam.sharpe+lists.red...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/9/13 Peter l Jakobi li...@kefk.oa.shuttle.de: 2.   Wasting  someones  time  with  excess  quoting  and  flaming   in mailinglists is a good way to ensure that he'll loose his enthusiasm. . I

Re: yumex ?

2009-09-15 Thread Aldo Foot
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 7:12 PM, lanas la...@securenet.net wrote: I'm used with kyum up to now.  Since it has disappeared from recent the F11 to which I'm upgrading from F8, I started to become familiar with the command-line yum.  How then, is yumex when compared with kyum ?  Do they have the

Re: stop stupidly telling people to do yum clean all when it's not necessary

2009-09-15 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Sep 15, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Alan Evans ame.fed...@gmail.com wrote: To clean the data about what's available to yum, simply use yum clean metadata. People, stop issuing stupid advice.  Yes, it IS stupid advice, it's offering things without due thought.  That is what being stupid means.

Re: simple way to build rpm?

2009-09-17 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Sep 16, 2009 at 8:56 PM, Fernando Cassia fcas...@gmail.com wrote: ...snip... The HP inkjet drivers (HPLIP) is one example of a fire and forget installer that just detects where am I? what platform is this? what compilers do I have available? is the build environment safe? are the

Re: Running a Script- and debugging.

2009-09-22 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 12:46 PM, Jim mickey...@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...snip... Could someone give me a Ideal as to this part of a script would hangup script. In FC11. The hangup stops at; cd 'dirname $0' I'm going to guess here: there may be a problem if you're running the install

Re: Running a Script- and debugging.

2009-09-22 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Sep 22, 2009 at 4:49 PM, Jim mickey...@sbcglobal.net wrote: The install.sh for the drivers is 51k and 1700 lines , Would it be to big to put on the forum ? Do a pastebin and provide the link to it. http://pastebin.com/ ~af -- fedora-list mailing list fedora-list@redhat.com To

Re: floppy disk formatting: how to?

2009-09-23 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 1:07 PM, Hiisi very-c...@rambler.ru wrote: 2009/9/23 Mikkel mik...@infinity-ltd.com: man floppy or pinfo floppy You can create the /etc/floppy file by running, as root this command: floppy --createrc /etc/floppy Done that. You should then be able to run

Re: floppy disk formatting: how to?

2009-09-23 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Hiisi very-c...@rambler.ru wrote: do this command.     $ floppy --capacity A: To show the available format capacities of the floppy drive and post back. ~af $ floppy --capacity A: floppy 0.16 Copyright 2001-2006, Double Precision, Inc. Formattable

Re: floppy disk formatting: how to?

2009-09-23 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 2:32 PM, Sam Varshavchik mr...@courier-mta.com wrote: ...snip... Whenever I'm trying the command above I have: floppy --ext2 --format A: floppy 0.16 Copyright 2001-2006, Double Precision, Inc. /dev/fd0H1440: Tiedostoa tai hakemistoa ei ole No formattable capacities

Re: floppy disk formatting: how to?

2009-09-23 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 4:12 PM, Mikkel mik...@infinity-ltd.com wrote: Sam Varshavchik wrote: I don't know whether at some point in the last couple of years the commonly accepted naming convention for floppy device nodes has changed, or if this is a Fedora-ism. If the standard naming

Re: Running a Script- and debugging.

2009-09-24 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 3:57 PM, Nifty Fedora Mitch niftyfed...@niftyegg.com wrote: On Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 09:19:26AM -0400, Jim wrote: Also 'odd' things can happen if '.' and strange places are in your PATH.   Are you running it as root via su, as root via su -, as root via sudo or as

Re: [Solved] Re: Why update Swahili?

2009-09-24 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 3:37 PM, Ed Greshko ed.gres...@greshko.com wrote: Craig White wrote: On Thu, 2009-09-24 at 17:34 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote: Roger wrote: When did bash become Swahili or was bash written in swahili. Is the thread about swahili or bash, or both? I'm lost Roger If you

Re: [Solved] Re: Why update Swahili?

2009-09-25 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Sep 24, 2009 at 8:28 PM, gil...@altern.org wrote: Aldo foot wrote: Isn't the default for the OP overly dramatic?  :-) ___ Posts craving attention... :-) When I posted my first message, I had no idea of the existence of m17n. I didn't know which languages were involved. I wrote

Re: I can't connect via ssh

2009-09-25 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 12:20 PM, Germán Racca german.ra...@gmail.com wrote: Hi list: I need to use ssh to transfer data between a PC and a notebook, both with Fedora 11, but the result is, from notebook to PC: $ ssh xx.xx.xx.xx ssh: connect to host xx.xx.xx.xx port 22: No route to host

Re: I can't connect via ssh

2009-09-25 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Sep 25, 2009 at 2:25 PM, Germán Racca german.ra...@gmail.com wrote: is this problem with ssh only? presumably you have a connection to the internet. and thus the NIC is up       # ifconfig | grep UP on both machines, what do you get with:       # iptables -L | grep ssh check

Re: Grub, Dual Boot

2009-10-01 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 1:09 PM, Jim mickey...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Dual booting with WinXP and Fedora 11. Hard Drive 0    sda1  WindowsXP Hard Drive 1    sdb1  /boot   Fedora 11 Isn't the command  grub-install  /dev/sda  what you do to write grub to boot from sda ? I ran that command

Re: Grub, Dual Boot

2009-10-01 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Oct 1, 2009 at 5:19 PM, Jim mickey...@sbcglobal.net wrote: ...snip... Well guys I got brave and went into the BIOS and found sdb was disabled and I enabled it and Grub does read and boot, and I now can go into Windows or Fedora. So I guess  grub Error 21 means it can't find a hard

Re: Installing Windows afterFedora

2009-10-02 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Oct 2, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com wrote: I have managed to go for just under a decade without a Windows machine, but now I need to have such, and I'd like to add it to an existing machine with a large enough partition which was used as work area for a project since

Re: NFSv4 setup?

2009-10-15 Thread Aldo Foot
On Thu, Oct 15, 2009 at 1:00 PM, Mike Cloaked mike.cloa...@gmail.com wrote: I have googled for setup advice on NFSv4 specifically for F11 - but I have not yet found a good reference.. __ Hmm... please try again. :-) http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Fedora+NFS+howto Something to keep in mind:

Re: Problems with yum update (iptstate)

2009-11-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:40 PM, Kam Leo kam@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:41 PM, Rahul Sundaram sunda...@fedoraproject.org wrote: On 11/12/2009 03:12 AM, Kam Leo wrote: On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 11:30 AM, Tim ignored_mail...@yahoo.com.au wrote: Patrick: Please don't post HTML

Re: disaster recovery Q's

2009-11-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 2:35 PM, Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@verizon.net wrote: ... I just checked, and /etc/fstab is using UUID's, how can that be fixed, or should I just put it back to LABEL's and be done with it.  That drive is labeled, but I don't believe its  /boot for /boot, so You can

Re: Affraid to Upgrade from FC9 to FC12

2009-11-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 1:58 PM, Kevin O'Neil ke...@kevinslair.com wrote: Greetings everyone, I am hoping that someone can help me decide if I should upgrade or not. I am very afraid to upgrade when FC12 comes out because I have tweaked almost every part of FC9 to get it to work the way I

Re: Upgrades driving me crazy....

2009-11-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 3:15 PM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote Latest and Stable are usually opposite ends of the same scale. Centos is boring - in all the good senses of the word. That's so true, but it gets the job done. :-) ~af -- fedora-list mailing list

Re: Creating a local RPM repository

2009-11-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Nov 6, 2009 at 9:21 AM, Mike Smith mike.sm...@control-solutions.com wrote: I am currently reviewing the possibility of allowing some of our employees to use Fedora on their machines instead of Windows.  On of my concerns is the bandwidth tied up by multiple machines downloading the same

Re: Creating a local RPM repository

2009-11-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Wed, Nov 11, 2009 at 3:42 PM, Timothy Murphy gayle...@eircom.net wrote: Aldo Foot wrote: I use a similar approach as outlined in this link: http://www.howtoforge.com/creating_a_local_yum_repository_centos All you need is the distribution ISO, and the createrepo and rsync commands. You

Re: SCP works one way only

2009-11-17 Thread Aldo Foot
On Mon, Nov 16, 2009 at 3:24 PM, Konstantin Svist fry@gmail.com wrote: For some reason, I can only SCP files off my new NAS, not to it. I've tried both using it as a server and as a client with same result. ailingListGuidelines so, there is a sshd running on that NAS and it's not

Re: Live CD install -

2009-11-17 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Nov 17, 2009 at 11:00 AM, Bob Goodwin bobgood...@wildblue.net wrote:   Can I run Fedora-12-i686-Live.iso from my nfs server without copying   it to a CDROM? Yes you can. No need to extract the image to a directory.   I don't see anything in the Bios setup that seems applicable. Looks

Re: Setting up a VM to run XP in an up-to-date F12 box?

2009-11-28 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sat, Nov 28, 2009 at 11:01 AM, Sam Sharpe lists.red...@samsharpe.net wrote: ...snip.. My advice would be to try using Virt-Manager in Fedora (providing you have recent hardware) and see how you get on. It really really isn't that difficult. If it's not working for you, then investigate

Re: Request for Input on Creating Linux Courses...

2009-12-11 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 1:25 AM, Michael D. Setzer II mi...@kuentos.guam.net wrote: Finally got the go ahead to create two Linux courses to our College program. Have included Linux in my lab since Redhat 9 thru the current Fedora 12, but have just been able to show students little bits of it

Re: Install on new computer keeping OEM OS

2009-12-12 Thread Aldo Foot
On Sat, Dec 12, 2009 at 10:38 AM, Alan Evans ame.fed...@gmail.com wrote: Hello! I just got a brand-new machine with Windows 7 pre-installed on its massive hard drive. Of course, Fedora is more my style, but I'd like to keep the original OS intact and dual boot. My question is this then: How

Re: please help! -- F12: login disallowed upon changing shell from bash to tcsh

2009-12-18 Thread Aldo Foot
On Fri, Dec 18, 2009 at 10:56 AM, Globe Trotter itsme_...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi, I installed F12 from the LXDE spin and it came up all right. However, upon changing my login shell from bash to tcsh, I can no longer log in using the graphical desktop. Specifically I get the message: Failed

Re: Name of fedora lists - you're kidding right?

2009-12-29 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 9:49 AM, Mail Lists li...@sapience.com wrote:  Suggestion:  May I suggest as we move to the new mailling list server, that we please change the name(s) from the current long (and goofy) one(s) such as:   Community assistance, encouragement, and advice for using

Re: small gripe -- for Fedora, or KDE, or ....?

2009-12-29 Thread Aldo Foot
On Tue, Dec 29, 2009 at 7:36 AM, BeartoothHOS bearto...@comcast.net wrote:        I run Gnome, and have a strong if irrational allergy to KDE in general; but there are several apps (such as Konqueror for man pages, and K3B) that I use so much that I make sure to get them even if I have to

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