existing mail, if you can
download via POP to a mail client program that understands both POP and
IMAP, you will subsequently be able to drag anything you want to keep
back into IMAP folders on the new server.
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making another copy you could use fetchmail to grab it (with
or without deleting from the original server) so you can feed it to
procmail before it is stored where you look at it.
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SMART_HOST.
Also on that system, you will need to make it a POP3/IMAP
server so you can retrieve mail.
Or run mail/mutt, or something that knows how to read the inbox directly.
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to relay
and be the SMART_HOST for the others, perhaps with address masquerading
but they are separate concepts.
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) and
:set fileformat=unix
and write it back out.
Plus, you probably have a program called dos2unix installed...
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, though. tr can
read it's own input just as well with input-filename.
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that you want to combine.
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as quotes for the following character in its
own parsing). These details are the same for every command you type (or
script) and not repeated in every man page.
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substitions, i/o redirection,
quote processing and a few other things. And it helps to know that when
looking at any other program's man page.
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scheme involving rsync to another hard drive,
perhaps external or remote. If you have multiple machines, backuppc
(http://backuppc.sourceforge.net/) is particularly good.
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Or, if the PC will boot from a USB flash device you can put the boot
image on that (but if it won't boot from CD you are probably out of luck
there too).
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perhaps I should go for a smaller distro.
There are other floppy boot loaders around that you could try, but I'd
recommend Centos 3.x as a better match for the machine. It should have
a floppy boot image and security/bugfix updates are still continuing.
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to coordinate this.
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releases. Discussions on the
reason for the change are outlined in many places including
http://lwn.net/Articles/94386/
Do you also happen to have a link for Red Hat's position on this problem
or a description of how they deal with it in an enterprise product?
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do
whatever you want.
Have it email message to your cell phone or an sms gateway to it. That
would be especially annoying if you have to pay to receive them.
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with freedom here:
http://news.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/08/1832255from=rss.
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software? Or at least focus the credit on gcc
which has been something of a driving force because the alternatives
were expensive.
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, and leave politics out of it.
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?
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prevent - at no gain to anyone.
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as such for several years before Linux was even conceived
of.
I didn't mean the word GNU. Reflexive acronyms are easy but useless.
What was the working system before Linux?
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.
But it is equally ridiculous either way, when 80+% is neither GNU nor
Linux code. Calling it an xwindow system would make more sense. Or
perhaps a firefox/thunderbird/openoffice.org system - with most of the
other parts interchangeable.
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Gordon Messmer wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
I didn't mean the word GNU. Reflexive acronyms are easy but useless.
What was the working system before Linux?
It was GNU. GNU, as a system, pre-dates Linux.
As a system of what?
GNU was not built on top of Linux. Linux was eventually able
underneath is still MS-Windows. Why should a different
criterium be applied to GNU+Linux?
The 'operating system' is Linux. The other components are mostly not
operating system specific.
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people's
software. I think it is wrong.
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the rights of the users to
whom you sell or distribute your software.
Again, the fact that under certain restricted conditions it may be
possible to reuse the code does not eliminate the damage caused by the
restrictions that prevent many other uses.
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Gordon Messmer wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
Gordon Messmer wrote:
Close your eyes for a moment and picture a big red tag that reads:
$ COOPERATION
That's the GPL.
You seem to be implying that the GPL is necessary for cooperation.
You're not showing very good reading comprehension. I'm
and
standards-compliant.
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.
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had enough
sense to use it. Starting from scratch was an academic exercise that
put everyone involved through hell - and still - the best it can do is
exhibit standard behavior.
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, the released GPL'd code is still stuck with the
restrictions that limit the ways it can be re-used.
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became available and
almost worked. You probably know the rest.
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as possible - tcp/ip being both an example and something of an exception
in terms of subsequent openness.
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mysterious.
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, then work on it. ;-)
The file you want to edit is normally sendmail.mc which is very simple,
and sendmail.cf will be rebuilt automatically when you restart the
sendmail service.
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was
copied or some patented algorithms re-implemented, but so far no
specific case has been proven.
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web based would be next best.
If you want something seriously heavy-duty, look at
http://www.opennms.org. It's java based and their yum repo includes the
Sun JVM to run it.
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if
they were a part of the Free Software community.
If you stop thinking of free software as something that can't co-exist
with and be combined with non-free code (which really only applies to
GPL-encumbered code) the way things developed would make more sense.
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and interoperates at the component level.
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on
the 'work as a whole' are met makes this impossible in many cases,
especially at the kernel level where components like drivers and
filesystems become part of the 'whole'.
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if it simply stated that you cannot
redistribute at all except under strictly limited conditions.
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a good
idea. It's hard to search for things that far back but there must be
copies still around somewhere.
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wrong?
You were told about the problems earlier on too and you choose to ignore
it. CDDL was deliberately designed to be incompatible with GPL
Deliberate? _Everything_ that is not the GPL is incompatible with the GPL.
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inode0 wrote:
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
You were told about the problems earlier on too and you choose to ignore
it. CDDL was deliberately designed to be incompatible with GPL
Deliberate? _Everything_ that is not the GPL is incompatible
be millions and the end of FreeBSD.
Is that particularly different than SCO's claims against IBM/Linux? Or
the patents that Microsoft claims it holds that are used in Linux?
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and it will reconstruct the partitioning and filesystems as
well as the contents. It knows enough about most filesystems (including
windows) to only copy the used portions of the disk so it is very fast.
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inode0 wrote:
On Sat, Jul 19, 2008 at 11:22 AM, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
inode0 wrote:
On Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 11:39 PM, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
You were told about the problems earlier on too and you choose to ignore
it. CDDL was deliberately designed
the dismembered Bell's crawling back together to
resurrect the monster? Plus of, course devouring Cingular. (I'm not a
big fan of huge corporations...).
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, and reboot? How come that would
still be Linux?
It wouldn't be Linux. It might be http://www.nexenta.org/os.
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that was really about freedom would have no reason for anyone
to need to circumvent it.
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/appliances/directory/ that haven't properly
followed the strict GPL requirements to provide all the corresponding
sources.
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be no question about that, given the many examples of open
source code not under the GPL.
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is not the way to either freedom or making the world a better place.
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by
itself and it doesn't make much sense to name it, although you might
need to talk about the kernel specifically or the complete distribution
as a whole.
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that restrictions are not freedom.
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copies and thus having to pay attention to
the associated source distribution obligation imposed by the GNU/GPL
components there should be little reason to know or care about that
layer of infrastructure or whether it has original unix roots or a bsd
or gnu flavored clone.
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inconsistency in your stance.
None of which has anything to do with the outcomes that we can observe
for less restricted software - the original TCP/IP code being a fine
example. I want more of that kind of outcome and I don't understand why
anyone would want it to have been prevented.
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derivative it takes nothing away from the original and adds compatible,
choices. The more code is reused, the better for everyone regardless of
the circumstances of any particular branch.
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. Of course in the case of
pre-existing code already under a less restrictive license, the original
terms remain on the original package.
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this in custom code that is not redistributed. It's the
end users that aren't developers and can only afford things distributed
at mass market prices that lose any chance of benefits. They just never
even see it.
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Rahul Sundaram wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
I don't see how you can claim - or even think - what you've written here
if you followed any of what I've posted or any of the linked material,
but this thread is a mess so I'll start over. This time please don't
delete stuff just because
-as-a-whole'
clause of the GPL forces exactly its own terms on all components. If
you don't like to talk about that, so be it.
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Gordon Messmer wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
Which was and is exactly my point. The GPL must cover the work as a
whole and thus is only compatible with licenses that permit their own
terms to be replaced with those of the GPL.
You're confusing the terms of the license. When you distribute
Gordon Messmer wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
Maybe that is because you are looking at it as a developer, and not
as an end user. It is the freedom of the end users that is being
preserved.
No, that is exactly backwards. Since the GPL only prohibits
redistribution
for any business to start a project knowing that they would
never be able to include components licensed from third parties under
any terms they might find agreeable.
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'
clause was to be incompatible with every other license. It is by
design and the lie is to claim otherwise. Please show how something can
include any GPL-covered work, yet be distributed under different terms
if you insist on claiming that.
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place restrictions on other code. Instead, say it
does not permit redistribution when other components are covered by
different terms. The effect is the same, though.
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you are, have a nice day ;-).
I'm not twisting anything. The GPL must apply to the work-as-a-whole.
That's not what I want it to mean. That's just what it says.
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Alexandre Oliva wrote:
On Jul 21, 2008, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Björn Persson wrote:
I don't think I'll get everyone to agree on a definition. I don't
even think all the anti-GNU/Linux folks will agree on a definition.
I'm not sure there is an anti-GNU/Linux factor - just
be
locked into any of them.
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: http://www.linuxdevices.com/files/misc/asay-paper.pdf
Some people seem to think the story has changed recently, but I'd prefer
to believe that the statements made back then (when Linux badly needed
more driver support) were not lies.
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Alexandre Oliva wrote:
On Jul 20, 2008, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I can't recall ever having any reason to
have a name for a subset of a distribution that only included the GNU
components and the kernel. Can someone who uses this term explain the
circumstances where it is useful
perfectly:
We don't care. We don't have to. We're the Phone Company
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Björn Persson wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
I'm not sure there is an anti-GNU/Linux factor - just a pro the other
85% of the distro unwilling to give unfair naming rights.
Are you sure that there really are people who want to include those 85% in
GNU/Linux? I'm not. I have now seen several
can produce, but no
equivalent for GPL restrictions.
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/Linux would encompass, there's really no such specific
distribution that I know of, and there wouldn't be much reason to use it
on its own unless you just like to live in emacs.
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moderately large number of days.
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Alexandre Oliva wrote:
On Jul 21, 2008, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Alexandre Oliva wrote:
but it's a one way trip and that copy of such code no longer has its
original license terms.
Can you back this up? All the evidence I've got suggests the exact
opposite.
I thought you
to determine what is/isn't
derived.
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by not also providing the freedom to be included with
proprietary works might have been as useful to everyone as TCP/IP.
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other terms (per section 2b). It's not a matter of rights, it
is what you have agreed to.
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involved in developing kernels
that were academically interesting for their time, but not generally
useful. Linus built something useful which is why it continues to get
attention.
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as to the whole. This concern was never clear to
me.
The point of that work-as-a-whole clause is to get you to agree to apply
restrictions to other people's work - and your own if you add any.
That's the reason the GPL is different from other licenses.
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.
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Alexandre Oliva wrote:
On Jul 22, 2008, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
the gnu utilities in linux distros could easily be replaced with
counterparts from the *bsd's, opensolaris, or any commercial unix
version. And the Linux kernel could be swapped with a bsd,
opensolaris
work, it is as close as you can get. They withhold your
freedom to redistribute until you have agreed to their terms - and in
the GPL case these must apply to all other combined work.
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Alexandre Oliva wrote:
On Jul 22, 2008, Les Mikesell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
it's more likely because if someone had tried to use the GNU OS
before Linux - or even the current Hurd version of GNU OS, they'd
run away screaming instead of trying it again...
Pretty much in the same way most
, and even the long-standing bugs in things
like BIND and sendmail began to be found and fixed.
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freedom to redistribute is respected. There's no such thing as
freedom to choose whatever license you want in the FSD. Choosing
licenses is not freedom, it's power.
Then your power is taken away if you would like to improve a work
covered by the GPL.
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?
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is the attractive part here?
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to fulfill your part of the agreement.
At this point, let's assume hypothetical Les Mikesell asks:
] But what if I distribute the program? Don't I have to stop
] breathing immediately?
No. If you didn't stop breathing, and I (let's assume I'm the
copyright holder) sue you for copyright
Gordon Messmer wrote:
Les Mikesell wrote:
Its not that simple. Say you receive a copy of a mostly bsd-origin
work previously modified by adding a few GPL-covered lines and
applying the GPL to the whole as required for #3 at that step. You
now agree to the GPL terms in order to be permitted
that restricts distribution of
other works that use it?
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the work-as-a-whole at all?
And of course this doesn't help with the prohibition against licenses
that are actually free like the MPL and CDDL at all.
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by someone else, remains under
their license.
If the license does not permit distributing under exactly the GPL terms,
you can't include it at all. Otherwise you'd be (sensibly...) permitted
to include any code you were allowed to redistribute. But that's not true.
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Les Mikesell
.
Doesn't that make glibc an extension of Linux instead of the other way
around? Will that same version run anywhere else?
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