Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[dlgegg]

I agree, please give him another chance.  Don't give up on him.  I know it is a 
problem, but don't let your frustration get to you and then transfer to him.  
Take a deep breath, say a prayer. He isn't doing this to be mean or contrary, 
there is a problem that causes this.
 Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: 
> Jen
> 
> Can I plead with you on Figaro’s behalf? I know how unbelievably disruptive 
> and disturbing it is to be peed on! I have had the pleasure. But very often 
> it signals something else is wrong. In my last cat who did this – who 
> squatted right on the bed while looking straight at me and peed, I oddly got 
> the sense that HE didn’t know why he had done it. I also noticed that he 
> seemed particularly disturbed in the litter box, and there were some other 
> oddities which I had noticed. It turned out that he had a lesion (could be a 
> small break) in his lower spinal cord (maybe his tail had been pulled or 
> caught in a door, etc), and these were neurological complications which were 
> resulting in this odd behaviour. The nerves which enervate the bladder and 
> bowel are found in the lower part of the spinal cord. Thus damage to that 
> area (a fall, hit by a car, tail caught in a door and the cat running hard in 
> the opposite direction) can all cause damage to these nerves.
> 
> There are sometimes other explanations such as urinary tract infections, or 
> just not feeling right.
> 
> I would think you think again about having him fixed. I agree with others who 
> have posted, that it should be okay to fix him if he is not experiencing any 
> FeLV symptoms yet. However, just to be on the safe side, you might consider 
> putting him on Doxycycline/Winstrol/Prednisone for a few weeks before the 
> surgery. There is a published study showing that people who were put on 
> Stanazolol (Winstrol) prior to abdominal surgery, had a better and faster 
> recovery than the control group who did not take Stanazolol.
> 
> I think that the mortality rate may be due to the fact that surgery weakens 
> the body and if the cat is already battling an immune challenge, surgery may 
> be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. However, I would also think that 
> it would be female cats who would be more at risk. Neutering is not nearly as 
> invasive as spaying.
> 
> Please don’t give up on him. He will have a very dim future, given his FeLV 
> status and peeing issues.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jennifer Olson
> Sent: March-02-17 8:39 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
> 
> Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
> I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...
> 
> On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" 
> <bcha...@optonline.net<mailto:bcha...@optonline.net>> wrote:
> Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these 
> references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for 
> them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical 
> databases ( for free)...
> 
> VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear 
> that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also 
> via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary 
> opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds 
> was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" 
> have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
> had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my 
> house to do so : )
> You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for 
> HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary 
> Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel 
> they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to 
> easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 
> 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones 
> expenses  Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will 
> now only take in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours 
> as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other 
> avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to 
> preserve our FeLV cats lives.
> 
> Hi Bob
> 
> I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to 
> interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but 
> here are a few ti

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[dlgegg]

I was going to say urinary tract infection.  Harley and Homey have both had 
that and peed just in front of the box.  Went to the vet and got meds.  Neither 
one was too happy about taking the medicine, but I found that if I sit in the 
recliner, wedge them between myself and the arm of the chair, then my left hand 
is free to pry open their mouth and with the right hand administer the meds.  
It takes a bit of practice, but gets the job done

 Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: 
> Jen
> 
> Can I plead with you on Figaro’s behalf? I know how unbelievably disruptive 
> and disturbing it is to be peed on! I have had the pleasure. But very often 
> it signals something else is wrong. In my last cat who did this – who 
> squatted right on the bed while looking straight at me and peed, I oddly got 
> the sense that HE didn’t know why he had done it. I also noticed that he 
> seemed particularly disturbed in the litter box, and there were some other 
> oddities which I had noticed. It turned out that he had a lesion (could be a 
> small break) in his lower spinal cord (maybe his tail had been pulled or 
> caught in a door, etc), and these were neurological complications which were 
> resulting in this odd behaviour. The nerves which enervate the bladder and 
> bowel are found in the lower part of the spinal cord. Thus damage to that 
> area (a fall, hit by a car, tail caught in a door and the cat running hard in 
> the opposite direction) can all cause damage to these nerves.
> 
> There are sometimes other explanations such as urinary tract infections, or 
> just not feeling right.
> 
> I would think you think again about having him fixed. I agree with others who 
> have posted, that it should be okay to fix him if he is not experiencing any 
> FeLV symptoms yet. However, just to be on the safe side, you might consider 
> putting him on Doxycycline/Winstrol/Prednisone for a few weeks before the 
> surgery. There is a published study showing that people who were put on 
> Stanazolol (Winstrol) prior to abdominal surgery, had a better and faster 
> recovery than the control group who did not take Stanazolol.
> 
> I think that the mortality rate may be due to the fact that surgery weakens 
> the body and if the cat is already battling an immune challenge, surgery may 
> be the straw that breaks the camel’s back. However, I would also think that 
> it would be female cats who would be more at risk. Neutering is not nearly as 
> invasive as spaying.
> 
> Please don’t give up on him. He will have a very dim future, given his FeLV 
> status and peeing issues.
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Jennifer Olson
> Sent: March-02-17 8:39 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience
> 
> Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
> I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...
> 
> On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" 
> <bcha...@optonline.net<mailto:bcha...@optonline.net>> wrote:
> Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these 
> references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for 
> them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical 
> databases ( for free)...
> 
> VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear 
> that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also 
> via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary 
> opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds 
> was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" 
> have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
> had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my 
> house to do so : )
> You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for 
> HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary 
> Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel 
> they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to 
> easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 
> 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones 
> expenses  Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will 
> now only take in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours 
> as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other 
> avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to 
> preserve our FeLV cats lives.
> 
> Hi Bob
> 
> I am unable t

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Amani Oakley]

Jen

Can I plead with you on Figaro’s behalf? I know how unbelievably disruptive and 
disturbing it is to be peed on! I have had the pleasure. But very often it 
signals something else is wrong. In my last cat who did this – who squatted 
right on the bed while looking straight at me and peed, I oddly got the sense 
that HE didn’t know why he had done it. I also noticed that he seemed 
particularly disturbed in the litter box, and there were some other oddities 
which I had noticed. It turned out that he had a lesion (could be a small 
break) in his lower spinal cord (maybe his tail had been pulled or caught in a 
door, etc), and these were neurological complications which were resulting in 
this odd behaviour. The nerves which enervate the bladder and bowel are found 
in the lower part of the spinal cord. Thus damage to that area (a fall, hit by 
a car, tail caught in a door and the cat running hard in the opposite 
direction) can all cause damage to these nerves.

There are sometimes other explanations such as urinary tract infections, or 
just not feeling right.

I would think you think again about having him fixed. I agree with others who 
have posted, that it should be okay to fix him if he is not experiencing any 
FeLV symptoms yet. However, just to be on the safe side, you might consider 
putting him on Doxycycline/Winstrol/Prednisone for a few weeks before the 
surgery. There is a published study showing that people who were put on 
Stanazolol (Winstrol) prior to abdominal surgery, had a better and faster 
recovery than the control group who did not take Stanazolol.

I think that the mortality rate may be due to the fact that surgery weakens the 
body and if the cat is already battling an immune challenge, surgery may be the 
straw that breaks the camel’s back. However, I would also think that it would 
be female cats who would be more at risk. Neutering is not nearly as invasive 
as spaying.

Please don’t give up on him. He will have a very dim future, given his FeLV 
status and peeing issues.

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
Jennifer Olson
Sent: March-02-17 8:39 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...

On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" 
<bcha...@optonline.net<mailto:bcha...@optonline.net>> wrote:
Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these 
references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for 
them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical 
databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear 
that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also 
via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary 
opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds 
was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" 
have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my 
house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for 
HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary 
Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel 
they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to easily 
afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 80's but 
keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses 
 Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take 
in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us 
to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance 
on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats 
lives.

Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to 
interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but here 
are a few titles to look up on the Internet:

- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in vitro 
- FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015

- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by doxycycline 
induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter - 2006 Nucleic 
Acids Res. 34

- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in vitro - 
October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and 
non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013 Tropical 
Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A TETRACYCLINE)

- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining mono

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Marlene Snowman]

Are you suggesting giving the vaccine to a cat (in my case 1.5) that has tested 
positive but no outward signs of the virus ?  I too haven't spayed her as my 
vet suggests that every cat she has spayed/neutered that was positive died 
within a week. I made the decision based on that to not spay so as not risk 
that. The vet has also recommended no vaccines as they are live virus and 
because of the positive testing recommended not providing any of those. 

Marlene 

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 2, 2017, at 1:40 PM, dlg...@windstream.net wrote:
> 
> The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, especially 
> a male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying.  If he does spry, 
> Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works!  I use it for urine, vomit 
> and it really newutralizews the odor.  First though, I do not want to be 
> responsible for unwanted kittens so I spay/neuter.  At first, for a few 
> years, everyone else gets vaccine for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at 
> least 4 or 5 years, they do not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as 
> many as 10 cats in the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I 
> have been lucky.  Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one 
> else has become positive.
> 
>  Margo  wrote: 
>> ___
>> Felvtalk mailing list
>> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
>> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
> 
> 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[dlgegg]

The first thing I do when a new cat comes to me is spay or neuter, especially a 
male, makes him less agressive and cuts down on spraying.  If he does spry, 
Jackson Galaxy has a product that really works!  I use it for urine, vomit and 
it really newutralizews the odor.  First though, I do not want to be 
responsible for unwanted kittens so I spay/neuter.  At first, for a few years, 
everyone else gets vaccine for FELV.  Especially after the cat is at least 4 or 
5 years, they do not seem to pass it on to others.  I have had as many as 10 
cats in the house and no transmission of the disease.  Maybe I have been lucky. 
 Annie still shows positive, but she is 9 years and no one else has become 
positive.

 Margo  wrote: 
> ___
> Felvtalk mailing list
> Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org


___
Felvtalk mailing list
Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org

Re: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Margo]

Then probably best to do so. Figaro will read off of you, and only make the situation worse. It's tough to deal with this kind of issue, and if it frustrates you to this extent, it is probably best to let someone else try. Have you had Figaro retested? Turning an outside cat into an inside cat is a long-term project, and as an intact male, he's still marking (and yes, you) and that's not likely to change. But placing a + cat is difficult in most places. You could look up "Feline leukemia sanctuary", and maybe there's someone near you. Is there a reason he has not been neutered? Have you had your other cats vaccinated against FeLV? Is Figaro showing any symptoms? What has his age been guessed to be?Hope you find a good solution,Margo-Original Message-
From: Jennifer Olson <j13w0l...@gmail.com>
Sent: Mar 2, 2017 8:38 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] Losing patience

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL" <bcha...@optonline.net> wrote:Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full medical databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target for these meds was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for Veterinary Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet owners.  I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses  Many people who might formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or  two.  All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share our knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats lives.    



Hi Bob

I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection, but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:

- Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015

- Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter - 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34

- Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
- Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013 Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A TETRACYCLINE)

- A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path Med 41:61-67



The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis, metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) from the bone marrow:

- Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of matrix metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase - published Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.


Amani

P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop eye problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the Ebola viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area of reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a breeding ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of the body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had had a toe-hold there.


-Original Message-
From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-bounces@feli

[Felvtalk] Losing patience

[Jennifer Olson]

Figaro is adorable, but I'm so frustrated with the whole situation-
I'm begining to consider other livining arrangements... aka placement...

On Mar 2, 2017 3:19 AM, "ROBERT CHAPEL"  wrote:

Thanks Amani... this is very helpful and I will do my best to locate these
references... preferably the full articles if they don't charge too much
for them ( I no longer work in hospitals and don't have access to full
medical databases ( for free)...

VERY interesting about the ebola virus and the eyes it does indeed
appear that the virus established a foothold in Yogi's eyes   BUT... it
was also via the eyes that I was able to introduce antiviral meds that my
Veterinary opthalmologist was using off label.  Of course the target
for these meds was the Herpes Virusbut it too ,is,  a retro Virus and
these meds "might" have had some effect on the FeLV virus as well
had I used them for a longer time ( though I would have had to have sold my
house to do so : )
You can find ALL sorts of aid for these Anti Virals if you are using them
for HIV or Herpes 1 or 2 but they are hard to locate at discount for
Veterinary Use.  I really am VERY concerned at the price of Vet
services as I feel they will ultimately reduce the number of pet
owners.  I was able to easily afford to keep 4 cats on a rather low
Social Worker income back in the 80's but keeping one ill FeLV in 2017 can
easily add 400.00 a month to ones expenses  Many people who might
formerly have adopted multiple cats will now only take in one or  two.
All the more reason for forums like ours as it is up to us to share our
knowledge and experiences to help each other avoid total reliance on a
veterinary system that is not always working to preserve our FeLV cats
lives.


Hi Bob
>
> I am unable to attach the literature regarding the ability of Doxycycline
> to interfere with RNA replication and/or interfere with viral infection,
> but here are a few titles to look up on the Internet:
>
> - Antiviral activity of doxycycline against vesicular stomatitis virus in
> vitro - FEMS Microbiol Lett. 2015
>
> - Control of small inhibitory RNA levels and RNA interference by
> doxycycline induced activation of a minimal RNA polymerase III promoter -
> 2006 Nucleic Acids Res. 34
>
> - Inhibitory effect of doxycycline against dengue virus replication in
> vitro - October 2013 Archives of Virology 159(4)
> - Study of the antiviral activity of some derivatives of tetracycline and
> non-steroid anti-inflammatory drugs towards dengue virus - August 2013
> Tropical Biomedicine 30(4):1-10   (BY THE WAY - DOXYCYCLINE IS A
> TETRACYCLINE)
>
> - A study of the clinical activity of a gel combining monocaprin and
> doxycycline: a novel treatment for herpes labialis. (2012) J Oral Path Med
> 41:61-67
>
>
>
> The following paper was interesting in that it explored the role of
> Doxycycline in inhibiting tumour cell proliferation, angiogenesis,
> metastasis and migration of cancerous cells (including leukemic cells) from
> the bone marrow:
>
> - Doxycycline inhibits leukemic cell migration via inhibition of matrix
> metalloproteinases and phosphorylation of focal adhesion kinase - published
> Molecular Medicine Reports, September 2015 Vol. 12, Issue 3.
>
>
> Amani
>
> P.S. - By the way, Bob. The other thing that was featured in that show
> last night about the fight against Ebola, is that the same doctor who
> contracted it and was declared symptom-free, later began to develop eye
> problems and when they examined his eye, they found millions of the Ebola
> viruses in the eye. The programme explained that the eye was an area of
> reduced immunity in the body, and thus, the virus had found a breeding
> ground where it remained, though it had been cleared from the rest of the
> body. They therefore began treating the doctor's eye, and the treatment was
> ultimately successful. It brought to mind the problems Yogi had had with
> his eyes, and I wondered if the answer was similar - that the virus had had
> a toe-hold there.
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of
> ROBERT CHAPEL
> Sent: March-01-17 5:02 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Cc: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Knowing the " whys" of Win/Pred/Doxy
>
> Amani...
>
> If we consider the extended time frame for Doxy and multiple courses of
> other ABX it makes a certain "intuitive" sense that a non bacterial
> infection is going to require a longer period of time to have whatever
> non-specific ( read... not related to bacterial infection necessarily)...?
> So little research money appears to be devoted to FeLV that I don't know
> that we'll know in the next decade unless the continuing demands of
> consumers ( who do NOT want to hear , in this day and age of " Miracles")
> that there is _ no hope_ for their much loved
> pets) alter this course.??? I STILL bristle when I think of the closed
> minds