Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

The situation with Curly is getting a bit more complicated but in a good
way. Her blood work a week ago showed an RBC of 9 which is critically low.
White cell count was 3.1. After one week of Prednisone her white cell count
is 3.7 which is the low end of normal and her red blood cell count is up to
13 which is still very low but a very significant increase in just one
week. So the Prednisone alone is making a big difference. We've now had two
positive ELISA tests, a negative IFA and severe anemia that is responding
well to just Prednisone. I am very confused. Even our vet seems surprised
by the sudden improvement in her numbers. He thinks we should do a bone
marrow biopsy for a definitive FELV diagnosis but I don't really want to
put her through that procedure.

We did start the Winstrol a day ago so I would think that could only help
more. We should be tapering down the Prednisone dose at this time but our
vet now wants to continue the full dosage for another two weeks before
running another CBC. And the Doxy will be started on Monday. I'm beginning
to think she might pull out of this crisis and we might have a little more
time with her.

On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:46 PM, Ardy Robertson <ar...@centurytel.net>
wrote:

> Best of luck to you with Curly  just wanted to mention there are
> appetite stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used with
> Tigger was Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a pill every
> 3 days. Amani knows of another one but I can’t remember the name of it.
>
>
>
> Ardy
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
> Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats.
> We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So
> far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about
> a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds.
> About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. She still
> gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and she is still
> grooming herself. She wants very little social interaction which is not
> like her at all and she has very little energy, preferring to stay on the
> bed almost all of the time. Her breathing is also fairly rapid and has been
> for quite a few days.
>
> Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail.
> We'll owe you much if it works.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Randy
>
>
>
> I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I
> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the
> only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-19-16 9:46 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Hi Amani,
>
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've
> read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as
> opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would
> be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wishing you luck.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak..

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Ardy Robertson]

Best of luck to you with Curly  just wanted to mention there are appetite 
stimulant pills available. One that I remember that I used with Tigger was 
Mirtazapine and I only had to give a small part of a pill every 3 days. Amani 
knows of another one but I can’t remember the name of it.

 

Ardy

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: Monday, December 19, 2016 8:10 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

 

Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and Doxycycline 
even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats. We'll be adding 
those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So far she is hanging in 
there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about a small can every other 
day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds. About a half pound below her 
best weight before she got sick. She still gets up to get drinks of water and 
use the litter box and she is still grooming herself. She wants very little 
social interaction which is not like her at all and she has very little energy, 
preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the time. Her breathing is also 
fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.

Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. We'll owe 
you much if it works.

 

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com 
<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote:

Randy

 

I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I found 
very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the only way 
the vet will agree to proceed. 

 

Amani

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> ] On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

 

Hi Amani,

I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've read 
that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as opposed 
to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would be willing to 
give her the shot would it still work as well?

 

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com 
<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote:

Wishing you luck.

 

Amani

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> ] On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM


To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

 

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

 

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com 
<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote:

1 mg 2 times a day. 

 

Amani

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org 
<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> ] On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org <mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> 
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

 

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

 

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com 
<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com> > wrote:

No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow. 

 

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustai

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[dlgegg]

So far, Annie has had no problems and I hope it stays that way.  keeping all 
dealinhg with this in my prayers.

 Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: 
> Randy
> 
> I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I found 
> very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the only way 
> the vet will agree to proceed.
> 
> Amani
> 
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of 
> Randy Henke
> Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> 
> Hi Amani,
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've read 
> that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as opposed 
> to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would be willing 
> to give her the shot would it still work as well?
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley 
> <aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
> Wishing you luck.
> 
> Amani
> 
> From: Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>]
>  On Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> 
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
> <aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
> 
> Amani
> 
> From: Felvtalk 
> [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>]
>  On Behalf Of Randy Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> 
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
> know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
> have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
> <aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
> What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If 
> your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone 
> marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
> production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
> once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
> supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
> 
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it 
> in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the 
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of 
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result 
> of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of 
> my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood 
> weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell count, 
> haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the 
> use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work 
> without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his 
> haematology numbers.
> 
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated 
> in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
> Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
> cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading 
> dose” and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you 
> have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for 
> asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid 
> scientific study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to 
> prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple 
> it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, 
> etc., but the virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. 
> (Then, of course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will 
> view the use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)
> 
&g

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Sherri Godschalk]

Randy,
That is wonderful news! Hopefully your Curly will respond to the treatment
as well as Bogey has. So glad you have a vet that is willing to try this
combination. Best wishes!

Sherri

From:  Felvtalk <felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org> on behalf of Randy
Henke <ra...@magicedge.com>
Reply-To:  <felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Date:  Monday, December 19, 2016 at 9:10 PM
To:  <felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject:  Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats. We'll
be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So far she
is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about a small
can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds. About a half
pound below her best weight before she got sick. She still gets up to get
drinks of water and use the litter box and she is still grooming herself.
She wants very little social interaction which is not like her at all and
she has very little energy, preferring to stay on the bed almost all of the
time. Her breathing is also fairly rapid and has been for quite a few days.

Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. We'll
owe you much if it works.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:
> Randy
>  
> I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I found
> very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the only way
> the vet will agree to proceed.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy
> Henke
> Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Amani,
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've read
> that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as opposed
> to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would be willing
> to give her the shot would it still work as well?
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote:
> 
> Wishing you luck.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy
> Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
> 
> 
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> 
>  
> 
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote:
> 
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>  
> Amani
>  
> From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy
> Henke
> Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
> To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
> 
>  
> 
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you
> know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to
> have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
> 
>  
> 
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote:
> 
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system.
> What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your
> cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow
> will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell
> production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so
> once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady
> supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>  
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it
> in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction
> of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that
> worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with
> the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I
> had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw
> no change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin,
> platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was
> already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol),
> that I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.
>  
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Our vet must be one of the good ones. He approved both Winstrol and
Doxycycline even though he has never used them for FELV positive cats.
We'll be adding those onto Curly's Prednisone as soon as we get them. So
far she is hanging in there. She only eats Fancy Feast Gravy Lovers (about
a small can every other day) but her weight is holding around 7 pounds.
About a half pound below her best weight before she got sick. She still
gets up to get drinks of water and use the litter box and she is still
grooming herself. She wants very little social interaction which is not
like her at all and she has very little energy, preferring to stay on the
bed almost all of the time. Her breathing is also fairly rapid and has been
for quite a few days.

Hopefully this will be another success story for your kitty cocktail. We'll
owe you much if it works.

On Mon, Dec 19, 2016 at 10:19 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Randy
>
>
>
> I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I
> found very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the
> only way the vet will agree to proceed.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-19-16 9:46 AM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Hi Amani,
>
> I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've
> read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as
> opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would
> be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> Wishing you luck.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will eit

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

Randy

I really don’t know. I have only had experience with the pills which I found 
very effective. As a compromise option, I would take if that is the only way 
the vet will agree to proceed.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-19-16 9:46 AM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

Hi Amani,
I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've read 
that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as opposed 
to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would be willing to 
give her the shot would it still work as well?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley 
<aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
Wishing you luck.

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>]
 On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM

To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
<aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
1 mg 2 times a day.

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>]
 On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
<aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
d

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Hi Amani,

I have a call in to our vet now about the Winstrol and Doxycycline. I've
read that there is also the option of getting a weekly shot of Winstrol as
opposed to the pills. If our vet balks at prescribing the pills but would
be willing to give her the shot would it still work as well?

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 7:12 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> Wishing you luck.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 8:12 PM
>
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

Thank you Ardy, but I always wince while doing this – imagining all those 
folks, reading the post, and saying to themselves, “there goes Amani on her 
soap box about Winstrol again”. ☺

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Ardy 
Robertson
Sent: December-17-16 4:11 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

And thank you Amani, for every time you do give the “speech” to educate people 
on ways to deal with FeLV+ cats, since the veterinary community also needs to 
be educated about the Winstrol, prednisolone, and doxycycline approach, along 
with the appetite stimulants, etc.
Ardy


From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani 
Oakley
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and should be 
increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is producing red 
cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with 
hi

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Ardy Robertson]

And thank you Amani, for every time you do give the “speech” to educate people 
on ways to deal with FeLV+ cats, since the veterinary community also needs to 
be educated about the Winstrol, prednisolone, and doxycycline approach, along 
with the appetite stimulants, etc.

Ardy

 

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Amani 
Oakley
Sent: Friday, December 16, 2016 4:26 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

 

No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow. 

 

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

 

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

 

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

 

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

 

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

 

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and should be 
increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is producing red 
cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with 
his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the 
next one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his 
haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped to 10 when 
I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.

 

Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??

 

Amani

 

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] 

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
wrote:

> 1 mg 2 times a day.
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf
> Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 7:52 PM
> *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis
>
>
>
> That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do
> you know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I
> want to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com>
> wrote:
>
> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the
> bill.
>
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or
> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and
> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel
> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of
> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.
>
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I
> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
> short-term solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte
> count was basically zero – this is a measure o

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

Wishing you luck.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-16-16 8:12 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

Thank you, Amani! I'll see what I can do to convince the vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 6:54 PM, Amani Oakley 
<aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
1 mg 2 times a day.

Amani

From: Felvtalk 
[mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org>]
 On Behalf Of Randy Henke
Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org<mailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org>
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
<aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and sho

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Amani Oakley]

1 mg 2 times a day.

Amani

From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Randy 
Henke
Sent: December-16-16 7:52 PM
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you 
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want to 
have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
<aoak...@oakleylegal.com<mailto:aoak...@oakleylegal.com>> wrote:
No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a 
corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune system. 
What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell production. If your 
cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor cells in the bone marrow 
will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and thus, the red cell 
production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120 days in circulation, so 
once that is over and they die, then they must be replenished by a steady 
supply of new cells from the bone marrow.

The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use it in 
a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the reproduction of 
viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of drugs that worked 
when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit result of 5 (with the 
reference range being something like 25 to 35, off the top of my head). I had 
tried LTCI and interferon and even though I tested his blood weekly, I saw no 
change/improvement at all in his red cell count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, 
platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled upon the use of Winstrol (he was 
already on prednisone and Doxy, but they don’t work without the Winstrol), that 
I saw a steady and sustained improvement in his haematology numbers.

The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often implicated in 
athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about prescribing it. 
Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment was published where 
cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of Winstrol as a “loading dose” 
and developed liver problems. So between these two driving forces, you have a 
lot of uneducated vets who will either think you are “unethical” for asking for 
the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful drug thanks to the stupid scientific 
study that was published. Plus, even where they are willing to prescribe it 
(like in Sherri’s case) they don’t recognize the need to couple it with the 
Doxycycline, and thus, you do get a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the 
virus is reproducing rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of 
course, not recognizing the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the 
use of Winstrol as a failure and not likely use it again.)

Other medications that might increase red cell production are erythropoietin 
and related medications, but erythropoietin does not encourage bone marrow 
growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the progenitor cells in the 
bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells and platelets, have been 
killed by the virus (or converted to infected cells, spewing out more virus) 
then the erythropoietin will not be effective because it simply encourages 
those progenitor cells to produce more red cells. However, because they can’t 
and thus cannot respond to the stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat 
doesn’t have FELV, and has anemia because of some other cause, then the 
erythropoietin might work.)

Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively in 
older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the bill.

Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or 
other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and that 
resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel movements. I 
therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of metoclompromine (Reglen) 
before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.

This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I had 
given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a short-term 
solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte count was 
basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and should be 
increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is producing red 
cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had had a reaction with 
his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions were possible since the 
next one would kill him, and I was all out of options as I watched his 
haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by week. It had dropped to 10 when 
I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in my drawer.

Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??

Amani

Fr

Re: [Felvtalk] FW: Questioning FELV diagnosis

[Randy Henke]

That is information that is definitely useful to me! Thanks so much! Do you
know what dosage of Winstrol I should ask for for a 6.8 pound cat? I want
to have as much info as possible when I talk to my vet on Monday.

On Fri, Dec 16, 2016 at 4:25 PM, Amani Oakley 
wrote:

> No Randy, Winstrol is an anabolic steroid (unlike prednisone which is a
> corticosteroid) so it does not have a dampening effect on the immune
> system. What you need right now is something to stimulate red cell
> production. If your cat has FELV, then the problem is that the progenitor
> cells in the bone marrow will have been infiltrated/killed by the virus and
> thus, the red cell production is down. Red cells have a life span of 120
> days in circulation, so once that is over and they die, then they must be
> replenished by a steady supply of new cells from the bone marrow.
>
>
>
> The only thing I have found that will do that is Winstrol. However, I use
> it in a cocktail with Doxycycline which has been found to retard the
> reproduction of viral RNA, and prednisone. This is the only combination of
> drugs that worked when my cat was in FELV crisis and had a haematocrit
> result of 5 (with the reference range being something like 25 to 35, off
> the top of my head). I had tried LTCI and interferon and even though I
> tested his blood weekly, I saw no change/improvement at all in his red cell
> count, haematocrit, hemoglobin, platelets, etc. It was only when I stumbled
> upon the use of Winstrol (he was already on prednisone and Doxy, but they
> don’t work without the Winstrol), that I saw a steady and sustained
> improvement in his haematology numbers.
>
>
>
> The scandal, Randy, is that Winstrol is one of the steroids often
> implicated in athletic doping scandals, so vets seem to be gun shy about
> prescribing it. Also, some years ago, a very poorly conducted experiment
> was published where cats where given 10 times the recommended dose of
> Winstrol as a “loading dose” and developed liver problems. So between these
> two driving forces, you have a lot of uneducated vets who will either think
> you are “unethical” for asking for the Winstrol, or believe it is a harmful
> drug thanks to the stupid scientific study that was published. Plus, even
> where they are willing to prescribe it (like in Sherri’s case) they don’t
> recognize the need to couple it with the Doxycycline, and thus, you do get
> a weak boost of the red cells, etc., but the virus is reproducing
> rampantly, so in the end, the virus wins. (Then, of course, not recognizing
> the need for the Doxy, those same vets will view the use of Winstrol as a
> failure and not likely use it again.)
>
>
>
> Other medications that might increase red cell production are
> erythropoietin and related medications, but erythropoietin does not
> encourage bone marrow growth and development as Winstrol does. Thus, if the
> progenitor cells in the bone marrow, which produce red cells, white cells
> and platelets, have been killed by the virus (or converted to infected
> cells, spewing out more virus) then the erythropoietin will not be
> effective because it simply encourages those progenitor cells to produce
> more red cells. However, because they can’t and thus cannot respond to the
> stimulation by erythropoietin. (If your cat doesn’t have FELV, and has
> anemia because of some other cause, then the erythropoietin might work.)
>
>
>
> Winstrol stimulates bone production (experiments have used it effectively
> in older adults for osteoporosis), and I don’t anything else which fits the
> bill.
>
>
>
> Cats with FELV often also have lymphocytes lining the intestinal walls, or
> other problems with moving food through the intestines. My cat did, and
> that resulted in (a) loss of appetite (b) vomiting and (c) slow bowel
> movements. I therefore found it necessary to add a ¼ tablet of
> metoclompromine (Reglen) before meal times twice a day. Worked like a charm.
>
>
>
> This cocktail then brought my baby back from the brink of certain death. I
> had given him blood transfusions with his anemia, but that is only a
> short-term solution and he wasn’t producing any red cells (reticulocyte
> count was basically zero – this is a measure of new red cell production and
> should be increased in cases of anemia to demonstrate that the body is
> producing red cells to compensate for the reduced red cell count). He had
> had a reaction with his last blood transfusion, and so no more transfusions
> were possible since the next one would kill him, and I was all out of
> options as I watched his haematocrit level drop lower and lower, week by
> week. It had dropped to 10 when I “discovered” an old bottle of Winstrol in
> my drawer.
>
>
>
> Whew. Guess how many times I have given this speech??
>
>
>
> Amani
>
>
>
> *From:* Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org
> ] *On Behalf Of *Randy Henke
> *Sent:* December-16-16 9:15 AM
>