Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Alasdair
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 01:06 +0200, ThorstenB wrote:
  On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
  After git pull (sg,fg,fgdata) a couple of days ago, I was presented with a
  strange screen which I had not seen before. My regular was shown as a
  sub-screen in the bottom-left corner. Clicking the maximise widget restores
  full screen, but any click on a menu item returns me to this stupid screen.
  Is this infuriating behaviour deliberate, or has my graphics driver gone
  walk-about?
 
  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fg_quarter-screen.png
 
 Unfortunately a long standing issue. This affects ATI graphics cards 
 when running newer drivers. It can be fixed by reverting to an older 
 ATI driver (see link below). To me it looked like a genuine OSG or ATI 
 driver bug (the size of the graphics view port doesn't properly resize 
 to the size of the window), but it's likely triggered by something 
 special we're doing in FG, since other applications don't seem to have 
 this issue.
 
 Also, it's timing-/sequence dependant: it only affects certain aircraft 
 (aircraft using wxradar, which changes/delays the OSG init sequence on 
 startup, are less likely to have the issue) - and for some people it 
 dis- and reappears with certain FG builds.
 
 It would be really good if someone seeing the issue locally could 
 properly debug this - even if it means digging into OSG - since a larger 
 number of people are affected. I tried remote debugging this a while 
 ago, but gave up after being unable to narrow it down inside FG. Maybe 
 someone else has better luck.
 
 For more see here:
 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=385
 
 cheers,
 Thorsten
 
Thanks very much for the link, Thorsten, it is a good start. But strange
that this problem, should just appear without any driver change. But I
am using Debian SID, and update my system daily, so it could be
OS-related.
I will install UBUNTU and try the same build under  that OS.

regards,
Alasdair 


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[Flightgear-devel] license

2012-09-03 Thread Michael
Hi
saw this: 
http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Joystick_Configuration_Dialog.jpg

which is Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license.
Will that go into default 3.0? Hence I would use the same license to keep off 
scammers. Sorry, seems I've missed if default releases only contain GPL license 
or not.
Thanks



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] license

2012-09-03 Thread Tim Moore
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 4:27 PM, Michael scrat_h...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Hi
 saw this:
 http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Joystick_Configuration_Dialog.jpg

 which is Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license.
 Will that go into default 3.0? Hence I would use the same license to keep off 
 scammers. Sorry, seems I've missed if default releases only contain GPL 
 license or not.
By scammers you mean developers?

Tim

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] license

2012-09-03 Thread Gijs de Rooy
Hi Michael,

that's just the screenshot's license that you see there. Images on the wiki can 
fall under many different licenses.

The dialog is in git and licensed under the GNU GPL v2.

Cheers,
Gijs

 Date: Mon, 3 Sep 2012 07:27:20 -0700
 From: scrat_h...@yahoo.com
 To: flightgear-devel@lists.sourceforge.net
 Subject: [Flightgear-devel] license
 
 Hi
 saw this: 
 http://wiki.flightgear.org/File:Joystick_Configuration_Dialog.jpg
 
 which is Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 license.
 Will that go into default 3.0? Hence I would use the same license to keep off 
 scammers. Sorry, seems I've missed if default releases only contain GPL 
 license or not.
 Thanks
 
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] license

2012-09-03 Thread Torsten Dreyer
Looks like the dialog is GPL and the screenshot image is CC.
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] license

2012-09-03 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 3:51 PM, Torsten Dreyer wrote:
 Looks like the dialog is GPL and the screenshot image is CC.

The screenshot license is CC purely as this is the default for the
wiki upload.  No political statement was intended :)

-Stuart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread syd adams
Im running Ubuntu , still get that problem.I've added the radar to my
intrumentation file in my affected aircraft , and the problem is
gone.Strange.
Syd

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
 On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 01:06 +0200, ThorstenB wrote:
  On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
  After git pull (sg,fg,fgdata) a couple of days ago, I was presented with a
  strange screen which I had not seen before. My regular was shown as a
  sub-screen in the bottom-left corner. Clicking the maximise widget 
  restores
  full screen, but any click on a menu item returns me to this stupid 
  screen.
  Is this infuriating behaviour deliberate, or has my graphics driver gone
  walk-about?
 
  https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fg_quarter-screen.png

 Unfortunately a long standing issue. This affects ATI graphics cards
 when running newer drivers. It can be fixed by reverting to an older
 ATI driver (see link below). To me it looked like a genuine OSG or ATI
 driver bug (the size of the graphics view port doesn't properly resize
 to the size of the window), but it's likely triggered by something
 special we're doing in FG, since other applications don't seem to have
 this issue.

 Also, it's timing-/sequence dependant: it only affects certain aircraft
 (aircraft using wxradar, which changes/delays the OSG init sequence on
 startup, are less likely to have the issue) - and for some people it
 dis- and reappears with certain FG builds.

 It would be really good if someone seeing the issue locally could
 properly debug this - even if it means digging into OSG - since a larger
 number of people are affected. I tried remote debugging this a while
 ago, but gave up after being unable to narrow it down inside FG. Maybe
 someone else has better luck.

 For more see here:
 http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=385

 cheers,
 Thorsten

 Thanks very much for the link, Thorsten, it is a good start. But strange
 that this problem, should just appear without any driver change. But I
 am using Debian SID, and update my system daily, so it could be
 OS-related.
 I will install UBUNTU and try the same build under  that OS.

 regards,
 Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] FlightGear Usability

2012-09-03 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 3:07 PM, Gijs de Rooy wrote:
 This is now checked in as the new Joystick Configuration item under
 the Help menu, which replaces the Joystick Information dialog.

 I think you forgot to add it to the menu?

Whoops. You are correct.   I'll correct that when I get the chance - hopefully
this evening.

While the config dialog is quite neat, and allows users to configure their
joysticks, it's still not as good as having a pre-existing set of bindings.

Given that it is much easier for users to generate bindings, it would be
great to streamline the process for submitting them to git.

At a simple level, we could set up an email alias (joysti...@flightgear.org) and
have a volunteer check them for suitability and either add the missing
name to an existing set of bindings, or check in the binding file if
appropriate.

Curt - would you be happy to create such an alias?

Anyone interested in handling the xml files?  If not, I'll do it.

I can then update the dialog to ask people to email them to
joysti...@flightgear.org
if creating a completely new set of bindings.

(A more advanced solution would be to have a way for users to submit joysticks
bindings from in-sim, but that's a bit more or a faff and open for
abuse - it'd be far too easy
to press the button by mistake or out of malice)

-Stuart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Geoff McLane
Hi Alasdair, 

I also do not think it is OS related, since I have seen 
this 'sometimes' in Windows 7 64-bit, with AMD 
Radeon HD 7700 Series with (I hope) the latest 
Catalyst driver!

At the time I thought little of it since it seemed 
to go away a few seconds later... by itself...

In the Catalyst Control Center it shows a Driver 
Package Version 8.961-120405a-137813C-ATI, Catalyst 
Version 12.1, dated 29-Feb-2012...

Hmmm, contrary to last time I checked for updates, 
it does now report a later Catalyst version 12.8 
available... will download and try that...

Now shows driver 8.982-120727a-145524C-ATI in Catalyst 
12.8, dated today...

Just tried FG 2.8.9.4 with 777-200 and no problem, but 
as indicated it only happened 'sometimes' and was never 
able to isolate the specific scenario that caused it...
maybe as you indicate it is a/c specific...

Found any reason why adding the radar to the aircraft 
made it go away...

Will keep testing with different aircraft... 

Regards,
Geoff.

On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 09:39 -0600, syd adams wrote:
 Im running Ubuntu , still get that problem.I've added the radar to my
 intrumentation file in my affected aircraft , and the problem is
 gone.Strange.
 Syd
 
 On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 01:06 +0200, ThorstenB wrote:
   On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
   After git pull (sg,fg,fgdata) a couple of days ago, I was presented 
   with a
   strange screen which I had not seen before. My regular was shown as a
   sub-screen in the bottom-left corner. Clicking the maximise widget 
   restores
   full screen, but any click on a menu item returns me to this stupid 
   screen.
   Is this infuriating behaviour deliberate, or has my graphics driver gone
   walk-about?
  
   https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fg_quarter-screen.png
 
  Unfortunately a long standing issue. This affects ATI graphics cards
  when running newer drivers. It can be fixed by reverting to an older
  ATI driver (see link below). To me it looked like a genuine OSG or ATI
  driver bug (the size of the graphics view port doesn't properly resize
  to the size of the window), but it's likely triggered by something
  special we're doing in FG, since other applications don't seem to have
  this issue.
 
  Also, it's timing-/sequence dependant: it only affects certain aircraft
  (aircraft using wxradar, which changes/delays the OSG init sequence on
  startup, are less likely to have the issue) - and for some people it
  dis- and reappears with certain FG builds.
 
  It would be really good if someone seeing the issue locally could
  properly debug this - even if it means digging into OSG - since a larger
  number of people are affected. I tried remote debugging this a while
  ago, but gave up after being unable to narrow it down inside FG. Maybe
  someone else has better luck.
 
  For more see here:
  http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=385
 
  cheers,
  Thorsten
 
  Thanks very much for the link, Thorsten, it is a good start. But strange
  that this problem, should just appear without any driver change. But I
  am using Debian SID, and update my system daily, so it could be
  OS-related.
  I will install UBUNTU and try the same build under  that OS.
 
  regards,
  Alasdair
 



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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Alasdair
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 09:39 -0600, syd adams wrote:
 Im running Ubuntu , still get that problem.I've added the radar to my
 intrumentation file in my affected aircraft , and the problem is
 gone.Strange.
 Syd
 
 On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
  On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 01:06 +0200, ThorstenB wrote:
   On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
   After git pull (sg,fg,fgdata) a couple of days ago, I was presented 
   with a
   strange screen which I had not seen before. My regular was shown as a
   sub-screen in the bottom-left corner. Clicking the maximise widget 
   restores
   full screen, but any click on a menu item returns me to this stupid 
   screen.
   Is this infuriating behaviour deliberate, or has my graphics driver gone
   walk-about?
  
   https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fg_quarter-screen.png
 
  Unfortunately a long standing issue. This affects ATI graphics cards
  when running newer drivers. It can be fixed by reverting to an older
  ATI driver (see link below). To me it looked like a genuine OSG or ATI
  driver bug (the size of the graphics view port doesn't properly resize
  to the size of the window), but it's likely triggered by something
  special we're doing in FG, since other applications don't seem to have
  this issue.
 
  Also, it's timing-/sequence dependant: it only affects certain aircraft
  (aircraft using wxradar, which changes/delays the OSG init sequence on
  startup, are less likely to have the issue) - and for some people it
  dis- and reappears with certain FG builds.
 
  It would be really good if someone seeing the issue locally could
  properly debug this - even if it means digging into OSG - since a larger
  number of people are affected. I tried remote debugging this a while
  ago, but gave up after being unable to narrow it down inside FG. Maybe
  someone else has better luck.
 
  For more see here:
  http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=385
 
  cheers,
  Thorsten
 
  Thanks very much for the link, Thorsten, it is a good start. But strange
  that this problem, should just appear without any driver change. But I
  am using Debian SID, and update my system daily, so it could be
  OS-related.
  I will install UBUNTU and try the same build under  that OS.
 
  regards,
  Alasdair
 
OK I tried building the same git version on Ubuntu (different gcc
version) Same problem. Tried a complete fresh clone (sg/fg/fgdata) Same
problem. Downloaded and built 2.8.0 and built with same script : NO
problem. So this is a git problem and fairly recent too.
0-
Most aircraft I have tested behave properly, but the ones that have this
strange viewport problem include : c172p, b1900d, SenecaII.

The viewport changes immediately after the splash screen displays
initializing graphics engine.

Maybe someone can figure out what these have in common that the 707,
737-300, 777-200ER, A-10, A300, aerostar700, alphajet, b29, bf109g,
Bravo, c310, Citation*, CRJ700ER, Cub and pa24-250-CIIB do not.

I cannot therefore attribute this problem to the Catalyst driver.
My git pull/build of 12 Aug did not display this problem. That of 1 Sep
did. So I reckon it must have been a commit made between these dates.

Alasdair


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Frederic Bouvier
 I cannot therefore attribute this problem to the Catalyst driver.
 My git pull/build of 12 Aug did not display this problem. That of 1
 Sep did. So I reckon it must have been a commit made between these dates.

So you may want to git bisect to find which commit was the problem

Thanks,
-Fred

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Alasdair
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 20:22 +0200, Geoff McLane wrote:
 Hi Alasdair, 
 
 I also do not think it is OS related, since I have seen 
 this 'sometimes' in Windows 7 64-bit, with AMD 
 Radeon HD 7700 Series with (I hope) the latest 
 Catalyst driver!
 
 At the time I thought little of it since it seemed 
 to go away a few seconds later... by itself...
 
 In the Catalyst Control Center it shows a Driver 
 Package Version 8.961-120405a-137813C-ATI, Catalyst 
 Version 12.1, dated 29-Feb-2012...
 
 Hmmm, contrary to last time I checked for updates, 
 it does now report a later Catalyst version 12.8 
 available... will download and try that...
 
 Now shows driver 8.982-120727a-145524C-ATI in Catalyst 
 12.8, dated today...
 
 Just tried FG 2.8.9.4 with 777-200 and no problem, but 
 as indicated it only happened 'sometimes' and was never 
 able to isolate the specific scenario that caused it...
 maybe as you indicate it is a/c specific...
 
 Found any reason why adding the radar to the aircraft 
 made it go away...
 
 Will keep testing with different aircraft... 
 
 Regards,
 Geoff.

Geoff, thanks for the input.
My catalyst version is 12.6. But the 777-200ER did not exhibit
this behaviour for me.. just a limited set planes, see my post of a few
minutes ago.

Alasdair
 
 On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 09:39 -0600, syd adams wrote:
  Im running Ubuntu , still get that problem.I've added the radar to my
  intrumentation file in my affected aircraft , and the problem is
  gone.Strange.
  Syd
  
  On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 2:23 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:
   On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 01:06 +0200, ThorstenB wrote:
On Sun, Sep 2, 2012 at 11:31 AM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com 
wrote:
After git pull (sg,fg,fgdata) a couple of days ago, I was presented 
with a
strange screen which I had not seen before. My regular was shown as a
sub-screen in the bottom-left corner. Clicking the maximise widget 
restores
full screen, but any click on a menu item returns me to this stupid 
screen.
Is this infuriating behaviour deliberate, or has my graphics driver 
gone
walk-about?
   
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/15936159/fg_quarter-screen.png
  
   Unfortunately a long standing issue. This affects ATI graphics cards
   when running newer drivers. It can be fixed by reverting to an older
   ATI driver (see link below). To me it looked like a genuine OSG or ATI
   driver bug (the size of the graphics view port doesn't properly resize
   to the size of the window), but it's likely triggered by something
   special we're doing in FG, since other applications don't seem to have
   this issue.
  
   Also, it's timing-/sequence dependant: it only affects certain aircraft
   (aircraft using wxradar, which changes/delays the OSG init sequence on
   startup, are less likely to have the issue) - and for some people it
   dis- and reappears with certain FG builds.
  
   It would be really good if someone seeing the issue locally could
   properly debug this - even if it means digging into OSG - since a larger
   number of people are affected. I tried remote debugging this a while
   ago, but gave up after being unable to narrow it down inside FG. Maybe
   someone else has better luck.
  
   For more see here:
   http://code.google.com/p/flightgear-bugs/issues/detail?id=385
  
   cheers,
   Thorsten
  
   Thanks very much for the link, Thorsten, it is a good start. But strange
   that this problem, should just appear without any driver change. But I
   am using Debian SID, and update my system daily, so it could be
   OS-related.
   I will install UBUNTU and try the same build under  that OS.
  
   regards,
   Alasdair
  
 
 
 
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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Alasdair
On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 22:40 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
  I cannot therefore attribute this problem to the Catalyst driver.
  My git pull/build of 12 Aug did not display this problem. That of 1
  Sep did. So I reckon it must have been a commit made between these dates.
 
 So you may want to git bisect to find which commit was the problem
 
 Thanks,
 -Fred
 
Where can I learn how to do that, Fred?
My knowledge of git ends with clone/pull.
Suggested reading?

regards,
Alasdair 


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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Arnt Karlsen
On Mon, 03 Sep 2012 21:32:02 +0100, Alasdair wrote in message 
1346704322.26230.28.camel@executrix:

 I cannot therefore attribute this problem to the Catalyst driver.

..one quick way to find out, is fetch a live usb distro, e.g. Debian
Live, (there's also Ubuntu, Knoppix etc) put it on an usb key and boot
it, it should run the free open source radeon driver, not ATI's fglrx.

..then do a build from your git tree with either Geoff or Brisa's
build script, run it and see what happens.  

..a third way is run your built binaries thru Wine.

..I'm looking for a way to boot iso etc images from xen and I believe
I'm missing something stupid simple, hints or ideas, please?

 My git pull/build of 12 Aug did not display this problem. That of 1
 Sep did. So I reckon it must have been a commit made between these
 dates.


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...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry...
  Scenarios always come in sets of three: 
  best case, worst case, and just in case.

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] Memory issues

2012-09-03 Thread Stuart Buchanan
On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 10:46 AM, Stuart Buchanan wrote:
 For performance reasons, all the buildings within a tile are a single
 object.  The memory capacity could be addressed by changing the
 implementation to something closer to the trees, where a (relatively)
 small number of buildings are instantiated at different locations.  I
 don't know what this would do for performance though.

I've (finally) managed to get a prototype running using an instantiation
of a shared geometry rather than a huge single object per tile.

So far the results are promising.  My standard test is at KSFO with the
c172p, waiting until the intial set of tiles is loaded with standard weather
conditions (e.g. no excessive visibility).

With random buildings switched off  FG uses ~1GB memory.  With v2.8.0
random buildings, it's 2GB.  With instantiated buildings at present it is
1.5GB.

At KLAX, it's down even further, from 2.7GB to 1.6GB.

I've not noticed any frame-rate impact.

There's still quite a lot of work to do, but I hope to have this available
before the next release.

-Stuart

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Re: [Flightgear-devel] strange screen

2012-09-03 Thread Tom P
Hi Alasdair,

This tutorial on git bisect has references to Drupal but is otherwise very
clear:
http://webchick.net/node/99

You basically start from a known-good point, a known-bad one and then tell
git bisect if the next checkouts are good (no problem) or bad (show the
problem).
Each test requires recompilation of FG and possibly multiple runs if the
problem is intermittent.

Hope this helps,

  Tom


On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Alasdair ali...@btinternet.com wrote:

 On Mon, 2012-09-03 at 22:40 +0200, Frederic Bouvier wrote:
   I cannot therefore attribute this problem to the Catalyst driver.
   My git pull/build of 12 Aug did not display this problem. That of 1
   Sep did. So I reckon it must have been a commit made between these
 dates.
 
  So you may want to git bisect to find which commit was the problem
 
  Thanks,
  -Fred
 
 Where can I learn how to do that, Fred?
 My knowledge of git ends with clone/pull.
 Suggested reading?

 regards,
 Alasdair



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