[fonc] Please feel free to change the subject line.

2013-04-09 Thread Casey Ransberger
What started off (at least ostensibly) as a conversation about NLP ended up being a conversation about the actor model, and the subject did change once, but to something not AFAIK related to actors. If I was less patient about wading though blah blah I might have missed interesting thoughts

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Warburton
David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com writes: relying on global knowledge when designing an actor system seems, to me, not to be the right way In our earlier discussion, you mentioned that actors model can be used to implement lambda calculus. And this is true, given bog standard actors model.

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread David Barbour
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 5:21 AM, Chris Warburton chriswa...@googlemail.comwrote: To use David's analogy, there are some desirable properties that programmers exploit which are inherently 3D and cannot be represented in the 2D world. Of course, there are also 4D properties which our 3D

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
So it's message recognition and not actor recognition? Can actors collaborate to recognize a message? I'm trying to put this in terms of subjective/objective. In a subjective world there are only messages (waves). In an objective world there are computers and routers and networks (actors,

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread David Barbour
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.comwrote: The computer is going to keep getting smaller. How do you program a phone? It would be nice to be able to just talk to it, but it needs to be able -- in a programming context -- to eliminate ambiguity by asking me

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Carl Gundel
LOL! I love your example. :-) I used to work at a company working on natural language processing (in Smalltalk no less). We had more than a dozen doctorate linguists and computational linguists working at LingoMotors. Here's just one single and overwhelming example of a challenge to overcome.

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Warburton
David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com writes: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Casey Ransberger casey.obrie...@gmail.comwrote: The computer is going to keep getting smaller. How do you program a phone? It would be nice to be able to just talk to it, but it needs to be able -- in a programming

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Warburton
Carl Gundel ca...@psychesystems.com writes: LOL! I love your example. :-) I used to work at a company working on natural language processing (in Smalltalk no less). We had more than a dozen doctorate linguists and computational linguists working at LingoMotors. Here's just one single and

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
Sometimes I think that something like http://leapmotion.com will use something like Ameslan to revolutionize programming. Maybe programming will become less sedentary and more like dance dance revolution. ___ fonc mailing list fonc@vpri.org

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread David Barbour
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Chris Warburton chriswa...@googlemail.comwrote: There is a distinction between programming a mobile phone and programming when mobile. True enough! And there's also a distinction between programming WITH a mobile phone and programming while mobile. As hard as

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Warburton
John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com writes: Sometimes I think that something like http://leapmotion.com will use something like Ameslan to revolutionize programming. Maybe programming will become less sedentary and more like dance dance revolution. It depends on the programmer how sedentary they

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread John Carlson
I thought the desktop metaphor was programming. On Apr 9, 2013 12:08 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 9:19 AM, Chris Warburton chriswa...@googlemail.com wrote: There is a distinction between programming a mobile phone and programming when mobile. True

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Nathan Sorenson
My intuition, based on a very limited course on speech recognition at University and my own heavy bias towards programming languages, is that 'serious' use of speech commands will end up evolving some terse, phonetic, unambiguous vocal programming language Tavis Rudd has become quite

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Miles Fidelman
John Carlson yottz...@gmail.com writes: Sometimes I think that something like http://leapmotion.com will use something like Ameslan to revolutionize programming. Maybe programming will become less sedentary and more like dance dance revolution. Two words: Minority Report

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Chris Warburton
David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com writes: I also think that tonal audio output may be preferable to spoken output as the amount of data increases. For example, imagine a service monitor that hums along as requests are processed, becoming discordant when it starts seeing error messages. This

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread Tristan Slominski
I think I am now bogged down in a Meta Tarpit :D A good question to ask is: can I correctly and efficiently implement actors model, given these physical constraints? One might explore the limitations of scalability in the naive model. Another good question to ask is: is there a not-quite

Re: [fonc] When natural language fails!

2013-04-09 Thread Brendan Baldwin
Wasn't John McCarthy's Elephant programming language based on the metaphor of conversation? Perhaps voice based programming interactions are addressed there? On Apr 9, 2013 8:46 AM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 1:48 AM, Casey Ransberger

Re: [fonc] Natural Language Wins

2013-04-09 Thread Fernando Cacciola
On Sat, Apr 6, 2013 at 11:21 PM, David Barbour dmbarb...@gmail.com wrote: I think you're being optimistic about human rationality there. (I disagree. QED.) Hmm, well, I'm afraid that indeed I would have only been right if we were all consistently rational. And definitely we are not. I find

Re: [fonc] Layering, Thinking and Computing

2013-04-09 Thread David Barbour
On Tue, Apr 9, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Tristan Slominski tristan.slomin...@gmail.com wrote: popular implementations (like Akka, for example) give up things such as Object Capability for nothing.. it's depressing. Indeed. Though, frameworks shouldn't rail too much against their hosts. I still