Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread John at Darkstar
Discussing something as a general social concern is one thing, claiming that it is a wmf legal issue is something different. John Michael Snow skrev: John at Darkstar wrote: Are the developers lawyers? A developer claiming something has an unwanted privacy issue is very different from making

Re: [Foundation-l] pt:wiki policies

2009-06-07 Thread Happy-melon
Yes, that's definitely true. But our ultimate guiding principle is the greater good of the project. Anyone can edit should apply to, as you say, anyone who is prepared to work constructively with the project, regardless of any disability (we take great pains, for instance, to make pages

[Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread David Gerard
It would be a simple matter of programming to have something that allows upload of encumbered video and audio formats and re-encode them as Ogg Theora or Ogg Vorbis. It would greatly add to how much stuff we get, as it would save the user the trouble of re-encoding, or installing Firefogg, or

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Brian
It is a WMF legal issue, in addition to being a social issue. No claim is being made that its a legal issue, it's just a fact. On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 2:43 AM, John at Darkstar vac...@jeb.no wrote: Discussing something as a general social concern is one thing, claiming that it is a wmf legal

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread Platonides
David Gerard wrote: It would be a simple matter of programming to have something that allows upload of encumbered video and audio formats and re-encode them as Ogg Theora or Ogg Vorbis. It would greatly add to how much stuff we get, as it would save the user the trouble of re-encoding, or

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread David Gerard
2009/6/7 Platonides platoni...@gmail.com: David Gerard wrote: Isn't Firefogg good enough? That's the solution being developed. Installing software is an extra step for the user, therefore bad. ** though I fully expect people will now do so anyway IANAL but See, told you! Does anyone

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Brian
Just to be clear, it has been claimed in this thread that the CheckUser right also gives those admins the right to collect additional data on users and analyze it. I've just read the privacy policy and that is not true. You'll also find [[Privacy policy]] interesting, although you might decide to

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread Brian
How many people at WMF consider their opinion's to be official ? :) I think there are two issues for a proprietary - non-proprietary converter: 1. The conversion software itself must be FLOSS. 2. The format being converted must have an open specification (Flash being a good example of one that

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Bence Damokos
This might be going off topic, and not really helpful in finding a solution (along the lines of wamping up WMF stats capabilities in the near future or reinstating the huwiki solution in a way accpetable to the WMF and the hu.wp community and possibly benefitting other communities, as well): On

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Brian
I'm going off of statements like this: I happen to be the one who have created the Hungarian checkuser policy, which is, as far as I know, the strictest one in WMF projects, and it's no joke, and I intend to follow it. On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:13 AM, Bence Damokos bdamo...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Domas Mituzas
Hi! Are the developers lawyers? IANAL. A developer claiming something has an unwanted privacy issue is very different from making claims about something being a legal issue on the behalf of Foundation. Simply don't do it. I failed to phrase what I wanted to write you in a way, that I

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Domas Mituzas
Hi! I believe there was no such claim, if anything, it was pointed out that setting up the stats engine didn't give access to information that was not accessible before by the Checkusers (even if logged), and that most fears of data being handled by the wrong hands are mitigated by

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread David Gerard
2009/6/7 Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu: I think there are two issues for a proprietary - non-proprietary converter: 1. The conversion software itself must be FLOSS. 2. The format being converted must have an open specification (Flash being a good example of one that might be allowed to be

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies

2009-06-07 Thread Domas Mituzas
Hello, If I were to compile a wishlist of stats things: 1. stats.grok.se data for non-Wikipedia projects the raw data is available, anyone can build anything like that, as long as they have resources. I've suggested Henrik to opensource his software, but probably it suffers from not nice

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Brian
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Domas Mituzas midom.li...@gmail.comwrote: And, Brian, Volunteer admins cannot take user privacy into their own hands, under their own interpretation. That's just not how it works! You don't seen to have sufficient understanding how it works. :(

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via third party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread Domas Mituzas
Hi! Assuming you're not taking this out of context, please explain the difference between how it works and my conception of how it works. Sorry, I misread your statement. I took Volunteer admins as Volunteer sysadmins - my greatest apology. BR, Domas

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread Robert Rohde
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 8:26 AM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: It would be a simple matter of programming to have something that allows upload of encumbered video and audio formats and re-encode them as Ogg Theora or Ogg Vorbis. It would greatly add to how much stuff we get, as it would

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread Robert Rohde
On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Robert Rohderaro...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 8:26 AM, David Gerarddger...@gmail.com wrote: It would be a simple matter of programming to have something that allows upload of encumbered video and audio formats and re-encode them as Ogg Theora or

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread David Gerard
2009/6/7 Robert Rohde raro...@gmail.com: On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Robert Rohderaro...@gmail.com wrote: Patent encumbered formats often have licensing fees when you perform encoding / decoding at commercial scale.  For example, the MPEG licensing association expects a fee from anyone

Re: [Foundation-l] Wikipedia tracks user behaviour via thir d party companies #2

2009-06-07 Thread DaB.
Hello, Am Saturday 06 June 2009 09:31:58 schrieb Tisza Gergő: The (WM-DE-owned) toolserver ran a statistics script called WikiCharts for a few years, which worked with data relayed by Common.js from several wikipedias, including de and en. While that is not exactly the same situation (as the

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread Mark (Markie)
Archive.org do this and I know the tech team at least have previously had meetings/discussions with them. Regards Mark On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 11:02 PM, Samuel Klein meta...@gmail.com wrote: We should do this (reencode all major formats to ogg). It would absolutely make more educational

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread David Gerard
2009/6/7 Mark (Markie) newsmar...@googlemail.com: Archive.org do this and I know the tech team at least have previously had meetings/discussions with them. Archive.org is of course a charity too. Does anyone know the arrangement allowing them to do this? - d.

Re: [Foundation-l] Why don't we re-encode proprietary formats as Ogg?

2009-06-07 Thread Tim Starling
David Gerard wrote: It would be a simple matter of programming to have something that allows upload of encumbered video and audio formats and re-encode them as Ogg Theora or Ogg Vorbis. It would greatly add to how much stuff we get, as it would save the user the trouble of re-encoding, or