*Kohser wrote:
I might be able to give a better answer if you could tell us whether
it is Taco Stand A or it is Taco Stand B in your analogy that is the
non-profit charity, funded with tax-deductible dollars, whose donors
probably fully expected that their money would NOT be used to pay rent
to
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 6:21 PM, Nikola Smolenski smole...@eunet.yu wrote:
On Saturday 24 January 2009 08:48:56 Gerard Meijssen wrote:
When the CIA or any other American governmental organisation has something
to share that is of benefit to us, we should be gracious and thankful and
accept and
On Saturday 24 January 2009 09:31:13 Gerard Meijssen wrote:
whatever it is we get in the sense of code. In the mean time we have been
using the CIA fact book for years now. They indeed have more resources and
That is an excellent example, CIA fact book is full of CIA's propaganda and
you can
Hoi,
So the fact that the CIA and the NSA are evil helps us understand why we are
paying market prices to Wikia, why we are likely to benefit from the Wikia
developed software and why people, all coding MediaWiki, meeting at a water
cooler is a great idea.. and incidentally there is no music
2009/1/24 geni geni...@gmail.com:
2009/1/24 Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org:
I would also say that I am happy we're talking about this, and I hope
the people asking questions are finding the answers reasonably
reassuring :-)
Depends. The wikia is a large user therefor we should work with
Naoko Komura wrote:
[snip]
[Wikia]'s asking price was more than X, but we said our offer
price would not be more than the price quoted by X. So,
[Wikia] evaluated if they can rent out space higher than our
offer price. As there was no higher bidder than us, [Wikia]
had agreed to offer the
the Foundation's goal.
Sincerely;
Geoffrey Plourde
From: Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:37:37 AM
Subject: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
I was very surprised to read
Nikola Smolenski wrote:
Given that we know that NSA conducts massive illegal spying operations, there
is possibility that selinux is altered in a fashion that will make it easier
for NSA to spy on selinux' users. I don't know what are CIA's contributions
to MediaWiki, but unless it is
2009/1/24 Naoko Komura nkom...@gmail.com:
Hello, Thomas.
I admire your persistence in putting your question forward until your
question is answered. :-) Let me try to answer your questions by giving
you the background of this negotiation.
Persistence is certainly not something I'm lacking!
Brian wrote:
If the CIA were to hand you a improved-mediawiki binary, sure
PHP is an interpreted language. Surely you wouldn't use someone elses byte
code.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 8:32 AM, Platonides platoni...@gmail.com wrote:
Nikola Smolenski wrote:
Given that we know that NSA
2009/1/24 Naoko Komura nkom...@gmail.com:
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 8:36 AM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote:
Persistence is certainly not something I'm lacking! Some disagree
about how admirable that is, though...
I think it is a good trait to have and admirable.
Well, thank you.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 1:53 PM, Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote:
It was a clear factual error which I corrected. If you aren't going to
criticize the original comment you have no basis for criticizing the
correction.
At any rate, what exactly is the topic of this thread, in your
I'm criticizing the switch from Wikia leasing office space to WMF to
Is the CIA evil? I just responded to the most recent email in my
inbox; I thought that would be more appropriate than responding to all
17 CIA/NSA-related emails. I was not criticizing you in particular.
The topic of this thread
Let me make my position clear:
* Correcting factual errors is always appropriate.
* This thread no longer has a clear topic.
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 12:41 PM, Alex mrzmanw...@gmail.com wrote:
I'm criticizing the switch from Wikia leasing office space to WMF to
Is the CIA evil? I just
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
I wrote:
To clarify, did Wikia match the lowest bid?
Geoffrey Plourde replied:
Mr. Levy;
I respectfully believe that you are asking the wrong question.
Rent is only a small part of cost. The whole cost should have
been
Geoffrey Plourde said:
Why should a taco stand use a dry cleaning shop when it can get
another taco shop?
Gregory Kohs responds:
I might be able to give a better answer if you could tell us whether
it is Taco Stand A or it is Taco Stand B in your analogy that is the
non-profit charity, funded
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2009 12:53:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
Geoffrey Plourde said:
Why should a taco stand use a dry cleaning shop when it can get
another taco shop?
Gregory Kohs responds:
I might be able to give
2009/1/24 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com:
Please, in your rush to judgment about the character of my attacks
here, take some time to actually explore and learn about United States
law. The Foundation could be in serious trouble here, and you're
spending an awful lot of energy railing
How was this message constructive? If you think he's a troll, don't
respond to him. I happen to think he raised some interesting issues.
Mark
2009/1/24 David Gerard dger...@gmail.com:
2009/1/24 Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com:
Please, in your rush to judgment about the character of my
I was very surprised to read on the Wikimedia blog a post from Naoko Komura,
the WMF program manager heading up the Wikipedia Usability Initiative,
funded by the Stanton Foundation.
Post:
http://blog.wikimedia.org/2009/01/21/a-note-on-the-wikipedia-usability-initiative/
To quote Komura,
On the
Could we have more detail, please, on the note that Wikia matched the best
offer? Were the other ten higher bidders also given the opportunity to
match the best offer? Why was Wikia chosen on a second and adjusted offer
basis, rather than choosing the good-faith firm that submitted the
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 8:37 PM, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote:
I'll also advise the
list moderators that this message is being copied to members of the press.
Thanks for the heads-up, now I'm frightened...
Seriously, I have nothing against you raising these questions, but
sentences
I'm glad someone is concerned about this issue. Wikia has always smacked of
they wouldn't let us show ads on Wikipedia, so here is the for-profit
branch of Wikipedia with ads. There are potential conflicts of interest at
nearly every level of the Wikia/Wikipedia relationship.
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 2:37 PM, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote:
I submitted a comment to the blog, but over seven hours later, it is still
not published, and there is a history of my questions to that blog being
ignored or censored. So, I'm going to ask here, and I'll also advise the
On 1/23/09 11:49 AM, Thomas Dalton wrote:
Could we have more detail, please, on the note that Wikia matched the best
offer? Were the other ten higher bidders also given the opportunity to
match the best offer? Why was Wikia chosen on a second and adjusted offer
basis, rather than choosing
The Foundation was searching for rooms because the current rooms are
already quite crowded (everyone who had visited the office can confirm
this) and because we will start the usability project we are going to
hire three more developers.
Thus the Foundation has either to lease offices in the
(We'd much rather keep them *in* our main office, but we're
simply out of room!)
I'm curious, how did that happen exactly? You didn't get the office
that long ago and most of the recent hires have been planned a fair
amount of time in advance. Why did you get a bigger office to start
with?
Out of curiosity, will the cost of leasing the space be deducted from the
usability grant funds?
Nathan
___
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
Wikia has been doing intensive work on the usability front and making
the code available to public, so I look forward to collaborating with
the Wikia technical and product teams to exchange ideas and learn from
their work.
There is a certain amount of logic in working with one of the biggest
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote:
It would appear that nobody is concerned about giving the landlord a
leg up on ITS for-profit competitors by supplying them in particular
with a ready feed of intellectual capital in the form of the friendly
Nathan wrote:
Out of curiosity, will the cost of leasing the space be deducted from the
usability grant funds?
Normal overhead costs were budgeted into the grant from the beginning.
That's one of the reasons we're not using it to hire 30 developers at
$30,000 a year, but setting more
The issue is pretty plain and simple:
* Our Office Manager explored several options, including Wikia;
* We've suggested to Wikia a fair market rate based on the average of
the other options we obtained;
* After some negotiation, Wikia accepted. Weighing other pros and cons
of the space against
Erik Moeller wrote:
[snip]
* We've suggested to Wikia a fair market rate based on the average of
the other options we obtained;
* After some negotiation, Wikia accepted. Weighing other pros and cons
of the space against other options, we decided to go with Wikia;
To clarify, did Wikia match
2009/1/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
I'm curious, how did that happen exactly? You didn't get the office
that long ago and most of the recent hires have been planned a fair
amount of time in advance.
Growth can be unpredictable for a number of reasons - changing
assumptions about
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 3:31 PM, Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com wrote:
It would appear that nobody is concerned about giving the landlord a
leg up on ITS for-profit competitors by supplying them in particular
with a ready feed of intellectual capital in the form of the friendly
2009/1/23 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org:
* We've suggested to Wikia a fair market rate based on the average of
the other options we obtained;
Average, or cheapest? If it really was average, then you're going to
have need to justify precisely how the added bonuses from Wikia are
worth whatever
2009/1/23 David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com:
Erik Moeller wrote:
[snip]
* We've suggested to Wikia a fair market rate based on the average of
the other options we obtained;
* After some negotiation, Wikia accepted. Weighing other pros and cons
of the space against other options, we decided
2009/1/23 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org:
2009/1/23 David Levy lifeisunf...@gmail.com:
Erik Moeller wrote:
[snip]
* We've suggested to Wikia a fair market rate based on the average of
the other options we obtained;
* After some negotiation, Wikia accepted. Weighing other pros and cons
of
Erik Moeller wrote:
I know that Wikia/WMF related stuff is pretty exciting, but really, we
have work to do. We're not going to not make a decision that is right
just because it creates fodder for trolling. (And I hope that if this
turns into a troll-fest, the list moderators will take
Delirium delir...@hackish.org writes:
There's a reason organizations that depend on public goodwill try to
avoid even the appearance of impropriety in this sort of respect,
and auditors usually suggest avoiding those sorts of entanglements.
Could you please keep the amount of crackpotish
George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com writes:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote:
Could you please keep the amount of crackpotish kookery at a minimum
at this list?
I'm somewhat confused - Delirium's comment here is reasonable,
accurate, and a
Anders Wegge Keller wrote:
Delirium delir...@hackish.org writes:
There's a reason organizations that depend on public goodwill try to
avoid even the appearance of impropriety in this sort of respect,
and auditors usually suggest avoiding those sorts of entanglements.
Could you please
2009/1/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com:
Hoi,
Having an office close to the main office, having an environment that is
shared with colleagues who way are sharing their impressive usability
improvements are tangible benefits.
I agree, the issue is with how much you value them. They
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote:
George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com writes:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk
wrote:
Could you please keep the amount of crackpotish kookery at a minimum
at this list?
Delirium delir...@hackish.org writes:
Anders Wegge Keller wrote:
Could you please keep the amount of crackpotish kookery at a minimum
at this list?
In what respect is it crackpottish or kookery to suggest that
even appearance of impropriety, even where none exists, is damaging
to
Anders Wegge Keller wrote:
Delirium delir...@hackish.org writes:
Anders Wegge Keller wrote:
Could you please keep the amount of crackpotish kookery at a minimum
at this list
In what respect is it crackpottish or kookery to suggest that
even appearance of impropriety, even where none
I find it interesting that critics of the Foundation are necessarily either
a troll, crackpot or kook, and yet, by my estimation, each one of these
critics has been around longer than the Foundation and wishes to make sure
that it develops in a manner consistent with the much older philosophy
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 11:01 PM, Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote:
George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com writes:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 1:49 PM, Anders Wegge Keller we...@wegge.dk wrote:
Not to me, and it just happened to be the one that tripped my trigger
setting.
I
2009/1/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
. Did you consider the PR cost when weighing it all up?
Of course. It's a normal transaction and any noise about it is likely
going to be ephemeral. We will continue to calmly and sensibly explain
it to reasonable people, and that's all there is to
Delirium wrote:
Most people, however, neither know the board nor have any particularly
great knowledge of Wikimedia's internals. Were it any other
organization, as in my Sierra Club example, I wouldn't believe the
explanation, so I wouldn't blame non-Wikimedians who read about this in
the
2009/1/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
Sounds good. Could you calmly and sensibly explain it to me, then? How
did you come to decide that the addition benefits of working in
Wikia's offices were worth the extra money? (I'm willing to accept
that there could be a good explanation, I'd
2009/1/23 Gerard Meijssen gerard.meijs...@gmail.com
The natural state of these discussions is that there are always people
pissing in the wind. That spoils things somewhat.
Hear hear, true words in a typical Dutch wording. :-)
I am amazed about the transparency and openess the staff members
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 20:53, Brian brian.min...@colorado.edu wrote:
I'm glad someone is concerned about this issue. Wikia has always smacked of
they wouldn't let us show ads on Wikipedia, so here is the for-profit
branch of Wikipedia with ads. There are potential conflicts of interest at
2009/1/23 Erik Moeller e...@wikimedia.org:
2009/1/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
Sounds good. Could you calmly and sensibly explain it to me, then? How
did you come to decide that the addition benefits of working in
Wikia's offices were worth the extra money? (I'm willing to accept
2009/1/23 Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.com:
2009/1/24 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Delphine Ménard notafi...@gmail.comwrote:
My reply isn't specific to what Thomas wrote; this is a general
comment on this thread. I've been reading it with a lot of interest,
2009/1/24 Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org:
I would also say that I am happy we're talking about this, and I hope
the people asking questions are finding the answers reasonably
reassuring :-)
Depends. The wikia is a large user therefor we should work with them
argument is somewhat worrying
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Thomas Dalton thomas.dal...@gmail.comwrote:
2009/1/24 Anthony wikim...@inbox.org:
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 6:13 PM, Delphine Ménard notafi...@gmail.com
wrote:
Wikia, as was said elsewhere, is one of the
biggest Mediawiki users out there and therefore has,
On Fri, Jan 23, 2009 at 7:07 PM, geni geni...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/1/24 Sue Gardner sgard...@wikimedia.org:
I would also say that I am happy we're talking about this, and I hope
the people asking questions are finding the answers reasonably
reassuring :-)
Depends. The wikia is a large
From: Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:37:37 AM
Subject: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
I was very surprised to read on the Wikimedia blog a post from Naoko Komura,
the WMF program manager
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 11:53:59 AM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
I'm glad someone is concerned about this issue. Wikia has always smacked of
they wouldn't let us show ads on Wikipedia, so here
?
From: Gregory Kohs thekoh...@gmail.com
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 12:31:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
Wikia has been doing intensive work on the usability front and making
the code
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:05:22 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space to WMF
Erik Moeller wrote:
[snip]
* We've suggested to Wikia a fair market rate based on the average of
the other options we obtained;
* After some negotiation
Beating on a dead horse is not a valid point.
From: George Herbert george.herb...@gmail.com
To: Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Sent: Friday, January 23, 2009 1:47:54 PM
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Wikia leasing office space
On Sat, Jan 24, 2009 at 12:23 AM, Geoffrey Plourde geo.p...@yahoo.comwrote:
Its the same software for both parties, and its open source. Please just
drop it.
If you would please be so kind as to summarize your viewpoints in
fewer messages. The past 10 to this thread have all been by you.
64 matches
Mail list logo
