Thanks to Bruno and the rest of the Membership team. It pleases me for some
reason to be on the same list of new members as my friend, Jim Vasile.
On a different matter, I am currently conducting a brief ( 5 minute) survey
on attitudes and viewpoints on FLOSS and proprietary software and I invite
On 12/15/09 4:09 PM, Zeeshan Ali (Khattak) zee...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Dec 15, 2009 at 11:49 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
Hi,
Lefty wrote:
Given the proposition that proprietary software is illegitimate, and
the statement above, do you believe that the GNOME Foundation and
Le vendredi 15 janvier 2010, à 13:02 +0100, Philip Van Hoof a écrit :
I also hope the foundation board will respect the results of these
surveys.
What do you mean?
Vincent
--
Les gens heureux ne sont pas pressés.
___
foundation-list mailing list
El vie, 15-01-2010 a las 06:50 -0300, Bruno Boaventura escribió:
Hello everybody!
I was quite busy due to my daughter. And now, she is almost three
months older, so... I'm back. Really. :-)
Congrats Bruno, thanks for keep working on this despite your (highly
likely) 3 hours of sleep per
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 13:11 +0100, Vincent Untz wrote:
Hi Vincent,
Le vendredi 15 janvier 2010, à 13:02 +0100, Philip Van Hoof a écrit :
I also hope the foundation board will respect the results of these
surveys.
What do you mean?
I don't (didn't) mean any immediate action is needed. I
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 13:02 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote:
They sharply illustrate that open source developers are far more
pragmatic than certain people in the audience would like us to be.
The results show 38 % of people non involved with free software, there
should be a way to temporary remove
Hi Philip,
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 13:02 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote:
I disrespect people who claim that this last survey has intentional
bias. For me they are being intellectually dishonest.
Giving one definition of a word, then asking if someone else's sentence
containing that word is true is
Aloha Wang and all the others, welcome to GNOME Foundation!
Regards,
Aron Xu
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 5:50 PM, Bruno Boaventura
brunoboavent...@gmail.com wrote:
Hello everybody!
I was quite busy due to my daughter. And now, she is almost three
months older, so... I'm back. Really. :-)
The
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 14:38 +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote:
Hi Xavier,
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 13:02 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote:
I disrespect people who claim that this last survey has intentional
bias. For me they are being intellectually dishonest.
Giving one definition of a word,
Lefty
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:02 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 02:01 -0800, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
Hi Lefty,
Thanks to Bruno and the rest of the Membership team. It pleases me for
some reason to be on the same list of new members as my friend, Jim
Vasile.
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 10:37 -0500, john palmieri wrote:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 7:02 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org
wrote:
The results are more than enlightening to me. The surveys definitely
are useful and insightful.
They sharply illustrate that open source
On 1/15/10 5:38 AM, Xavier Bestel xavier.bes...@free.fr wrote:
Giving one definition of a word, then asking if someone else's sentence
containing that word is true is at best partial.
Xavier, without defining the term beforehand, I'd be open instead to
accusations that I wasn't being fair
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.orgwrote:
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 14:38 +0100, Xavier Bestel wrote:
Hi Xavier,
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 13:02 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote:
I disrespect people who claim that this last survey has intentional
bias. For me they
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 09:34 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
Hi Stormy!
I believe we can state it this way ...
The GNOME Foundation believes in free software and promotes free
software but that does not mean that GNOME is anti-proprietary
software. We believe, promote, use and write free
Hi Philip,
Please refrain from calling people crazy or disruptive. Please keep the
discussion on the actions not people's characters.
By labelling people with negative terms, these debates turn into arguments
instead of productive discussions.
Stormy
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 9:43 AM, Philip Van
On 1/15/10 8:34 AM, Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.com wrote:
The GNOME Foundation believes in free software and promotes free software but
that does not mean that GNOME is anti-proprietary software. We believe,
promote, use and write free software.
We are excited when companies and
On 1/15/10 8:49 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:
I fully agree with this statement if you replace free software with open
source.
I have some sympathy with this view. Open source is my preference as well
and (based on the survey data) seems to have broader uptake among the
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 08:58 -0800, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
On 1/15/10 8:49 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:
Hi Stormy!
I fully agree with this statement if you replace free software with open
source.
I have some sympathy with this view. Open source is my preference as well
and
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 09:50 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
Hi Stormy,
Please refrain from calling people crazy or disruptive. Please keep
the discussion on the actions not people's characters.
By labelling people with negative terms, these debates turn into
arguments instead of productive
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 18:05 +0100, Philip Van Hoof wrote:
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 08:58 -0800, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
On 1/15/10 8:49 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:
Hi Stormy!
Mistake, I was replying to Lefty.
Sorry Lefty. You know I like your féminin side ;)
I fully agree
I too usually prefer to use the term open source software. However, in this
context, I think the term free software is more appropriate.
To me, open source software is any software that meets the OSI definition,
http://www.opensource.org/docs/osd. It is also the way most companies talk
about free
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 10:37 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
[CUT]
We could also amend the statement to say free and open source
software but it gets awkward.
I think it's a great idea to (at least) use both.
Free software isn't a synonym for open source, and by only using 'free
software' you
On 1/15/10 9:45 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:
I think it's a great idea to (at least) use both.
I'd favor this as well. What it gains in possible awkwardness (which doesn't
bother me, I used to say free and open source software all the time) it
also gains in clarity, I think.
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:01 AM, Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org wrote:
On 1/15/10 9:45 AM, Philip Van Hoof pvanh...@gnome.org wrote:
I think it's a great idea to (at least) use both.
I'd favor this as well. What it gains in possible awkwardness (which
doesn't
bother me, I used to say
And a special congrats to the guys I know on the list - Adam Reviczky,
Ben Konrath, David Schlesinger, James Vasile, Jeff Schroeder and
Mark-Andre Lureau. Welcome to the foundation.
And to Frank, Ke, Thibault, hi, I'm Dave. Nice to meet you.
Cheers,
Dave.
Bruno Boaventura wrote:
Hello
Hi,
Philip Van Hoof wrote:
Lefty gave accurate definitions for the words he used. For example the
word illegitimate: Richard clearly questioned the legitimacy of
proprietary software and asked us to mirror this statement. This is
archived if you don't believe me.
illegitimate is not a
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 09:34 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
I believe we can state it this way ...
The GNOME Foundation believes in free software and promotes free
software but that does not mean that GNOME is anti-proprietary
software. We believe, promote, use and write free software.
We are
On 1/15/10 10:01 AM, David Schlesinger le...@shugendo.org wrote:
Free software isn't a synonym for open source, and by only using 'free
software' you aren't including all the OSI definitions which GNOME also
endorses.
This is actually an excellent, and an important, point.
Having poked
On 1/15/10 10:10 AM, Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.com wrote:
I have no objections to free and open source other than it's awkwardness. (I
too have used it quite a bit.)
As I point out in my previous message, I¹d say we have to use it, awkward or
not.
I will amend to say free and open source in the least awkward way I can.
Stormy
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 11:16 AM, Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org wrote:
On 1/15/10 10:10 AM, Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.com wrote:
I have no objections to free and open source other than it's
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 10:14 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 09:34 -0700, Stormy Peters wrote:
I believe we can state it this way ...
The GNOME Foundation believes in free software and promotes free
software but that does not mean that GNOME is
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 10:15 -0800, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
On 1/15/10 10:01 AM, David Schlesinger le...@shugendo.org wrote:
Free software isn't a synonym for open source, and by only using 'free
software' you aren't including all the OSI definitions which GNOME also
endorses.
This is
Lefty, you don't go to an organization of iphone developers and use a survey
to try to convert them to be Android developers.
What you are doing is kind of like that here.
2010/1/15 Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org
Thanks to Bruno and the rest of the Membership team. It pleases me for
some
I think what Lefty was trying to do was show that the list/community/group
has lots of different opinions and we all make lots of assumptions whenever
we talk about the community.
That said, I believe surveys are a very hard way to make definitive
statements.
Stormy
2010/1/15 Andy Tai
On 1/15/10 9:57 AM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
Please stop trolling.
Dave, I think this is unhelpful. If you must, maybe you should do it
privately, rather than publicly.
How about I do a poll whether people think PCs should run Windows or
another desktop environment? If we respect
On 1/15/10 11:10 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
We certainly all know that RMS believes that. Some other GNOME community
members may as well, though probably not a large number. It, is however,
your choice to focus on it, and I don't understand what you are trying
to achieve by
I inadvertently replied publicly to what had been a private message from
Owen, and for that, I apologize.
It was accidental, and I apologized to Owen offline as soon as he pointed my
error out to me. As I was getting ready to send it off, I noticed that Owen
was the sole recipient, assumed I'd
Le ven. 15 janv. 2010 à 18:57:52 (+0100), Dave Neary a écrit:
Philip Van Hoof wrote:
I fully agree with this statement if you replace free software with open
source.
Please stop trolling. This is not going to lead to anything productive
(again).
Thanks Dave. I am coming late into this,
2. not legitimate; not sanctioned by
law or custom.
I don't see what the fuss is about.
Not sanctioned by custom precisely describes Richard Stallman's belief
that Free Software as a concept does not include considering proprietary
software as acceptable in most cases.
Whether that is true of
On 1/15/10 1:05 PM, Alan Cox a...@lxorguk.ukuu.org.uk wrote:
2. not legitimate; not sanctioned by law or custom.
I don't see what the fuss is about.
I don't know that there _is_ a fuss. That's one of the things I hope to
determine via the survey.
Not sanctioned by custom precisely
On Fri, 2010-01-15 at 11:31 -0800, Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
On 1/15/10 11:10 AM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
We certainly all know that RMS believes that. Some other GNOME community
members may as well, though probably not a large number. It, is however,
your choice to focus on it,
On 1/15/10 1:22 PM, Owen Taylor otay...@redhat.com wrote:
I think you may be reading quite a bit more into this than I'd intended. Do
you have an objection to the questions in the survey simply being _asked_,
Owen...?
It's very hard not to take the survey as a continuation of the recent
On 1/15/10 1:58 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
So proposing that GNOME as a project adopt one or the other amounts to a
troll, in that it will create an endless discussion with no result.
Well, I'll be sure not to propose that, then.
Again, my impression has been that there are
On 1/15/10 1:58 PM, Dave Neary dne...@gnome.org wrote:
Having gone through 10 years of Open Source vs Free Software
debates, I know that (like emacs vs vim, bsd vs linux, gnome vs kde, bsd
vs gpl, reply-to for mailing lists, code indentation styles, and other
religious debates) that nothing
Hi,
Lefty (石鏡 ) wrote:
One further comment on this: I stand by my view that Stormy's mission
statement should not use the terminology free software to the exclusion of
the term open source software. In fact, in light of what you've said, I
believe I feel even a little more strongly about it:
On Fri, Jan 15, 2010 at 2:58 PM, Lefty (石鏡 ) le...@shugendo.org wrote:
I speak as part of GNOME, perhaps, but I don't speak _for_ GNOME. The
distinction is critically important. Speaking _for_ GNOME is a job for
Stormy and the Board, and those to whom they might choose to delegate that
On 1/15/10 3:17 PM, Stormy Peters stormy.pet...@gmail.com wrote:
I disagree quite strongly.
Fair enough, let me be clearer: my stated views do not necessarily represent
the views of the GNOME Foundation or the GNOME community. GNOME comprises a
variety of viewpoints, of which mine is one;
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